Help! Bank Refuses to return Stolen Money

Go Back   Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad > Europe > France Expat Forum for Expats Living in France

France Expat Forum for Expats Living in France Welcome to the France Expat forum. This is the place to meet like minded people who have made France their new home. This forum is ideal for those who have moved to France and those thinking about making France their new home.

Help! Bank Refuses to return Stolen Money


Reply
 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 4th March 2017, 02:06 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: France & England
Posts: 3
Rep Power: 0
Dawn.Phelps is on a distinguished road

Users Flag! Originally from uk. Users Flag! Expat in france.
Default Help! Bank Refuses to return Stolen Money

I have been the victim of identity theft and fraud in France.

The basic overview is thus:

My partner and I bought a house in Limoux in October 2015, and subsequently opened a bank account at Bank X. The on-line banking app is not offered in English. As a result, the on-line ‘service’ that was offered was to contact a member of the banking team to request a transfer/BACS payment. Subsequently, in late June 2016, we were defrauded by 36,700 Euro.

We appointed an Advocat and an Approved Translator, and letters were sent to the bank. However, we were unhappy with the process and we subsequently appointed another Advocate, Bright Advocates in Toulouse, who promised to take a more aggressive approach. Unfortunately, the bank has chosen to ignore all communication regarding this matter, even though on 04 July (7 months ago) the Bank Manager told us our money would be returned within days.

We believe our rights under the European Union are being violated, as it clearly states in the Official Journal of the European Union (L 319/28) “ 1. Member States shall ensure that, without prejudice to Article 58, in the case of an unauthorised payment transaction, the payer’s payment service provider refunds to the payer immediately the amount of the unauthorised payment transaction and, where applicable, restores the debited payment account to the state in which it would have been had the unauthorised payment transaction not taken place”.


Bank X is in contravention of French and EU banking regulations, and we have been told by the Advocate that:

A/ There is no authority in France such as a Financial Ombudsman- the only Ombudsman is for banking products and investments,
B/ Bank appointed mediators do not have authority to enforce their decisions,
C/ The only way the bank will refund our money, is by a court order from a Judge (which would involve a lengthy and costly litigation process), and
D/ In the current state, this is a pre-litigation procedure, therefore a lawyer is not mandatory, which means that it was our choice to ask help from a lawyer. So legally, there is nothing that can make the bank pay back our legal fees and with wrangling backwards and forwards, this could incur substantially greater fee’s- potentially to the amount fraudulently taken in the first place. (So far, we have incurred 3,000 Euro in fee’s and have gotten nowhere)

With Microsoft clearly confirming my email account was hacked, and all evidence supporting this, I’m certain you can appreciate we are extremely distressed about this situation and feel utterly helpless, and would be most grateful if anyone could either help with this situation or point us in the direction of acquiring the necessary help to resolve this situation as quickly as possible.

Many thanks!!


Last edited by Stevesolar; 4th March 2017 at 03:39 PM. Reason: Removed name of Bank as naming and shaming is against forum rules
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 5th March 2017, 03:10 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Quesada
Posts: 407
Rep Power: 0
MataMata is on a distinguished road
122 likes received
3 likes given

Users Flag! Originally from uk. Users Flag! Expat in spain.
Default

Very sorry to hear of your experience but if the fraud and loss were as a result of your email being hacked, presumably fooling you into sending the money to a fraudster instead of where it was intended, then I'm not sure how that is your banks fault ?

There have been cases in UK where house purchasers have received emails supposedly from their solicitor telling them that their bank A/C has changed and that their deposit should be transferred there instead of wherever was previously notified, unfortunately in those sort of circumstances the loss is down to them.

Is that something like what happened in your case ?

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 5th March 2017, 03:44 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: France & England
Posts: 3
Rep Power: 0
Dawn.Phelps is on a distinguished road

Users Flag! Originally from uk. Users Flag! Expat in france.
Default

Thanks for your reply. No, we did not respond to an email requesting funds. My identity was stolen and the hackers asked the bank to send them money to their account in the UK. The bank did so without contacting us, the account holders. Therefore, it is the banks fault as it did not follow any procedure whatsoever and is refusing to abide by the banking laws that protect people like me from fraudsters.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 5th March 2017, 04:58 PM
Bevdeforges's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: deepest, darkest Essonne
Posts: 47,806
Rep Power: 23366
Bevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond reputeBevdeforges has a reputation beyond repute
10456 likes received
1523 likes given

Users Flag! Originally from usa. Users Flag! Expat in france.
Default

Quote:
The on-line banking app is not offered in English. As a result, the on-line ‘service’ that was offered was to contact a member of the banking team to request a transfer/BACS payment.
This is the part I guess I don't understand. The bank is under no obligation to provide online banking service in English - and the arrangement to request a transfer via e-mail strikes me as rather strange, though it appears that's what you authorized.

It does look like you may have to go the full legal route and show that the bank violated its own rules regarding bank transfers. (And that you didn't contribute in any way to the hacking of your e-mail account - by leaving a password lying around or whatever.) But I wouldn't count on getting your legal costs reimbursed, even if you win your case. French law is very different from British law.
Cheers,
Bev

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 5th March 2017, 07:39 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: France & Greece
Posts: 322
Rep Power: 0
The Grocer is on a distinguished road
47 likes received
11 likes given

Users Flag! Originally from wales. Users Flag! Expat in france.
Default

Interesting....you say money was sent to their UK account. If so the case becomes a bit better for you surely. Contact the police fraud squad in the UK, if these people have a UK account the police will get involved.

Also France has a cybercrime squad:-
http://www.interieur.gouv.fr/Contact...riat-de-police

as does the UK..
http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/

hope this helps.....


Last edited by The Grocer; 5th March 2017 at 07:42 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 5th March 2017, 08:44 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Quesada
Posts: 407
Rep Power: 0
MataMata is on a distinguished road
122 likes received
3 likes given

Users Flag! Originally from uk. Users Flag! Expat in spain.
Default

Thanks for the clarification although I have to say it's left me even more confused

Correct me if I'm wrong here then but what I'm hearing now is that from a simple hack of your email (was it just that or a full identity theft because there is a chasm of difference between the two) a fraudster was able to glean all the information he needed to enact the transfer.

Since I can't believe that there is a single bank on the planet which would do such a thing by email exchange alone and without at the very least least a secondary or even tertiary pass verification layer - i.e. a password and/or a PIN and/or other piece of secret information - it begs the question of how the hacker came by that information and if it's because he found it written down in plain form somewhere in your emails then I think most would reasonably conclude that that was negligent on your part in which case it would understandably influence any decision on reimbursement.

Please don't think I'm having a pop at you because I'm not it's just that without knowing exactly how the fraud was perpetrated it's difficult to speculate on your chances of getting your money back.

PS: "The bank did so without contacting us, the account holders", I'm sure they must have believed they were talking to the A/C holder, how were they supposed to know your email had been hacked ?


Last edited by MataMata; 5th March 2017 at 08:55 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Tags
banking, fraud, french, identity theft

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Expat Forum For People Moving Overseas And Living Abroad forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Location
Where you live
Expat From Country
Please select the country you originate from. This will appear as a flag when you make posts on the site.
Expat To Country
Please select the country you have either moved to or want to relocate to. This will be presented on the site when you make posts.

Log-in


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Transfer money to AU through Bank to Bank EFT or Currency Exchange company? ba101 Australia Expat Forum for Expats Living in Australia 0 2nd January 2017 11:40 AM
Taxation on moving money from UK bank to Spanish bank? st3v3y Spain Expat Forum for Expats Living in Spain 7 12th February 2016 08:19 AM
U.S. Tax Return checks - deposit in U.S. bank or Spanish bank? Frank bcn Spain Expat Forum for Expats Living in Spain 8 3rd June 2015 06:03 PM
HSBC refuses to stamp bank statement duplicate for fiance visa! nolita Britain Expat Forum for Expats Living in the UK 8 31st January 2014 11:16 AM
Anyone going to Dubai to bank money for your return home? happyhour Dubai Expat Forum for Expats Living in Dubai 8 17th September 2008 08:14 PM

FORUM PARTNERS

ExpatForum.com is owned and operated by VerticalScope Inc.

Retiring Overseas Guides | Moving Overseas Guides | Cost of Living | Health Care Guides


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.