Questions about long stay visas and paths to French citizenship - Page 5

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Questions about long stay visas and paths to French citizenship - Page 5


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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 18th November 2016, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by enarles View Post
O
We've already spent a total of a year or so in France over the years
I often think about choosing your homeland like a choosing your marriage partner. You go out with somebody, you spend time together, but you don't really get to know them warts and all until you live with them day in day out. I guess, this is why the authorities try to ensure you've lived here long enough to know what being a French citizen is all about before they let you apply for "a marriage licence"; that you understand what you're signing up for, you're not still in the honeymoon period.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 19th November 2016, 03:27 AM
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I often think about choosing your homeland like a choosing your marriage partner. You go out with somebody, you spend time together, but you don't really get to know them warts and all until you live with them day in day out. I guess, this is why the authorities try to ensure you've lived here long enough to know what being a French citizen is all about before they let you apply for "a marriage licence"; that you understand what you're signing up for, you're not still in the honeymoon period.
Perfect analogy, gonna reuse this one :-)

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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 19th November 2016, 03:48 AM
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I tend to agree with the last few posters. It's really unclear what exactly you're trying to achieve here.
For my wife and I, this is about living in a place more conducive to our values and lifestyle. For our children, this is about option value. It is for the kids' sake that we're thinking about naturalisation.

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About the only real difference is that, with citizenship you can vote here.
We want our children to have the to option to live or work in the EU or the US (regardless of how much money they have, or other qualifications). This seems like an important difference?



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Originally Posted by Bevdeforges View Post
Maybe if you could explain to us just what you are trying to achieve.
We would like to live in France, indefinitely, without forfeiting the option to move back to the States (for instance, in the event that family were to fall ill). True, this can be done on a visitor visa. However, we would like our children, once grown, to have the option of living or working in the EU as well as the US.

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If you're looking to renounce your US citizenship, then, yes, you would need to take some other citizenship first - but be aware of the consequences and costs of getting rid of your US citizenship. They are significant.
We do not want to renounce US citizenship (though, if necessary, we would consider doing so). I was under the impression that dual US-French citizenship is allowed. Is that not the case?

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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 19th November 2016, 07:00 AM
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It is allowed.

In any case, when a child reaches majority and they've lived in the country for at least five years and been schooled in France, he or she can file for a "déclaration de nationalité française." If you only care about your children's nationality, and you two are comfortable doing whatever for 12-18 years, that would eventually come up.

But really, this is really, really far down the road ... Focus on having a solid (not an abstract) reason for living here. Work, studies, something that keeps you attached to this country. "Valuing the lifestyle" is only going to last 6 months.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 19th November 2016, 07:23 AM
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Let me second trotskor's comments. Taking French nationality doesn't automatically make your children French. It depends on their ages, and if they are in their teens, their consent. Plus, their US citizenship will continue to haunt them for the rest of their lives, unless they're ready to cough up the $2350 (or more) to renounce.

Net-net, you will need at least 5 years of residence in France before you can apply for citizenship, so probably best to focus on that first. If you are not working in France and not contributing to the French social insurance system during that time, it's highly unlikely you'll be accepted for citizenship anyhow. (Retirees are in a somewhat different category as long as they are receiving and declaring their retirement income here in France and fulfill the other requirements.)

One other elephant in the room is the little matter of the upcoming French presidential elections. Between Brexit and the recent US results, there is a growing awareness here that the polls could be completely wrong and someone like Marine LePen could take the presidency in May. That will have a huge effect on the "ambiance" of France for foreigners, even if most of her announced policies seem aimed at only certain groups. In any event, I should tell you that France is not an easy country for foreigners at the best of times.

You really owe it to yourselves and to your kids to try living here for a year or, better, two to five, before thinking about taking nationality. And to do that, you really do need to be able to establish your financial base here - by working or setting up a business here. If you have to return to the US to earn enough to stay in France, it will not only be looked at negatively when it comes to citizenship (or even possible carte de séjour renewal) but it will give you a very unrealistic view of Life In France. Salaries here are considerably lower than what they are in the US - assuming you can find a job in your field here. Plus, working in the US will give you no foothold in the French benefits system (which, I must say, is an integral part of "living in France").
Cheers,
Bev
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 19th November 2016, 07:25 AM
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I think I see now where you're coming from.
However, nationality is not something you can buy for your kids as a gift - AFAIK Marianne doesn't do family packages on nationality. Each child would have to apply for citizenship in their own right when they reach 18. They would need to have lived in France for the previous 5 years, so it should be a done deal since anyone who's lived in France between the ages of 13 and 18 and done all their secondary schooling here is going to speak good French and be a fully integrated member of the community. If the parents also hold French citizenship and the kids have been spending time on and off in France since they were little, that's nice but not necessary. So as Trotskor says, what you do or don't do now while the kids are small, is not directly relevant to their future citizenship options.

The problem I see - your priority seems to be to keep their options open, but is the fact that they won't have any US school diplomas not going to severely limit their potential if they decide they want make their careers in the US?

EDIT - I see this crossed with Bev's post.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 19th November 2016, 07:38 AM
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The problem I see - your priority seems to be to keep their options open, but is the fact that they won't have any US school diplomas not going to severely limit their potential if they decide they want make their careers in the US?

EDIT - I see this crossed with Bev's post.
You raise an interesting point here, ET. Generally speaking, having "foreign" credentials shouldn't be an impediment to making a career in the US. However, as the old saying goes, "the times, they are a changin'" and it does seem that attitudes in the US against immigration and "foreigners" could be hardening. While nationality wouldn't be a problem, there could be more resistance to hiring someone with "foreign credentials" - only time will tell.

One other factor is that the school system here in France is very, very different from that in the US. Many newly arrived US (and UK) parents are very unhappy with how the schools here operate. There is much less emphasis on "creativity," "project management" and "working as a team" - much more memorization and adherence to a fairly strict style of writing and learning. The parents are not considered the ultimate arbiter of what the child will do or learn - school is the State's time to form the child's psyche and no "interference" from the parents is tolerated. It definitely takes some getting used to. There is also the expectation that parents will help the kids with their schoolwork, based on the parent's experience in school. For immigrant parents, who have no experience of the French school system, this places their kids at a disadvantage.
Cheers,
Bev
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 19th November 2016, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by EuroTrash View Post
I think I see now where you're coming from.
However, nationality is not something you can buy for your kids as a gift - AFAIK Marianne doesn't do family packages on nationality. Each child would have to apply for citizenship in their own right when they reach 18. They would need to have lived in France for the previous 5 years, so it should be a done deal since anyone who's lived in France between the ages of 13 and 18 and done all their secondary schooling here is going to speak good French and be a fully integrated member of the community. If the parents also hold French citizenship and the kids have been spending time on and off in France since they were little, that's nice but not necessary. So as Trotskor says, what you do or don't do now while the kids are small, is not directly relevant to their future citizenship options.

The problem I see - your priority seems to be to keep their options open, but is the fact that they won't have any US school diplomas not going to severely limit their potential if they decide they want make their careers in the US?

EDIT - I see this crossed with Bev's post.
Just as a small recision -- if a child has been here for enough time and they were schooled in a French school the entire time, they don't apply for citizenship, they apply for a "déclaration de nationalité française."
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 19th November 2016, 10:13 PM
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Your priority seems to be to keep their options open, but is the fact that they won't have any US school diplomas not going to severely limit their potential if they decide they want make their careers in the US?
Thanks, despite how I may have come across, we're on the same page. My wife and I realize that it is impossible to know how one will take to a place without living there, and there will necessarily be a long trial period. It's just that I would like to be informed before we move--life is short, and there are only so many two-to-five year test runs one can do.

We know we do not want to be in the US forever. We love France and believe (admittedly from somewhat of a distance) that this is the place we want to be. But if the answer to the naturalization question had turned out to be, "No, it's not possible," we would be open to doing a stint in another EU country with more permissible naturalization laws prior to moving to France. However, it sounds like naturalization and dual-citizenship are entirely possible, if difficult. So thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread, I've learned a lot.

And now, first thing's first--time to contemplate a mountain of paperwork! Hope to see you all in France à plus.

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