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-   -   Any physician from usa moving to or living in dubai (https://www.expatforum.com/expats/dubai-expat-forum-expats-living-dubai/231785-any-physician-usa-moving-living-dubai.html)

drskg 11th October 2013 03:03 AM

Any physician from usa moving to or living in dubai
 
Hi,
I am a Internal medicine board certified physician,living in usa for last 7 years. Thinking of moving to dubai for family reasons.. Dont have any idea about the american physician salaries over there. Have many doubts regarding the living status, job opportunities, freedom of making job change,social life etc
very anxious.. Is there any other physician who had moved from usa or planning to move over there ?

mehranR 11th October 2013 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drskg (Post 2021577)
Hi, I am a Internal medicine board certified physician,living in usa for last 7 years. Thinking of moving to dubai for family reasons.. Dont have any idea about the american physician salaries over there. Have many doubts regarding the living status, job opportunities, freedom of making job change,social life etc very anxious.. Is there any other physician who had moved from usa or planning to move over there ?

I am not a physician and I don't live in Dubai.( does that help?) rather a dentist who wants to move to Dubai.
As far as my job search, the pay scale is higher compare to other physicians from the rest of the world, but that cools mean nothing or something's work against you. Many clinics wouldn't want to pay so much to hire a doctor. I don't think you have much freedom in terms of job changes like we do here, as there should be someone who is sponsoring us, and I believe you will need to fulfil your contract term with them before switching. Social life is usually no to worry about.
Now the question would be, if family reasons are moving you towards Dubai, will these questions be very important? Believe me I am in the same boat as you and I realized that I am not moving to Dubai to be more profitable, because that can never happen. Taking a huge salary cut ( I will be making 1/3-1/4 of what I make in US), but at the end the family situation would be resolved. All of a sudden, money is not the only factor when family comes into play.
You could look at sites like dubizzle and get ideas as to how much the base salary and salary for a senior doctor (this will be your category) is. Keep in mind that most places will offer you accommodation and vehicle, trip to US and good benefits. On top of that being tax free (sometimes I think it's debatable).

zaytoona 11th October 2013 04:58 PM

Hi drskg -

My husband is a doctor of internal medicine and general surgery with a MBBCh from Egypt and is ECFMG certified from the United States. We're going through the match process in the States right now and have a few interviews but it's still early in the season.

We're hoping to match in Internal Medicine and then go for a Cardio fellowship, but we also applied for a few family medicine programs for insurance. At the same time we're realistic about the statistics that less than half of the IMGs that apply don't match.

In the event we don't match we've been researching doctor positions in the Gulf Arab countries, where my husband has colleagues from medical school, and we've been able to get some information for positions with his credentials. They base it off of training and nationality. I also have a pay range for future credentials such as yours with three years training in Internal Medicine and passing the Internal Medicine Board according to the American board standards, which seems to be a minimum requirement for the Western pay range for Dubai in addition to US citizenship.

A similar thread on here came up a little while back and has some of the information you're looking for. See: Dubai Jobs for Doctor (In this thread see the last post for the pay range information you seek.)

Other than that we've just been going website to website for the hospitals looking at job posting for physicians and inquiring. Such as the vacancies for the physicians at the American Hospital in Dubai. I see they've got an opening for a Hospitalist which might work for you. Also they offer a look at their physician housing: Photos

Stevesolar 12th October 2013 02:17 PM

Hi
What passport do you have -as this has a huge bearing on salary scale for physicians in Dubai.
Two things are important - Western board certified along with your passport country (this not necessarily being your country of birth).
All things being equal regarding Western board qualifications then US passport holders are paid best, followed by EU passports, followed by Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan etc. then India, Pakistan etc.
DHA regulations stipulate what your job title will be (Specialist, Consultant etc.) and they have rules relating to how long you have been practising at your qualification level to determine your Dubai job title - the hospital then have a pay scale depending what this is.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Steve

drskg 15th October 2013 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mehranR (Post 2026778)
I am not a physician and I don't live in Dubai.( does that help?) rather a dentist who wants to move to Dubai.
As far as my job search, the pay scale is higher compare to other physicians from the rest of the world, but that cools mean nothing or something's work against you. Many clinics wouldn't want to pay so much to hire a doctor. I don't think you have much freedom in terms of job changes like we do here, as there should be someone who is sponsoring us, and I believe you will need to fulfil your contract term with them before switching. Social life is usually no to worry about.
Now the question would be, if family reasons are moving you towards Dubai, will these questions be very important? Believe me I am in the same boat as you and I realized that I am not moving to Dubai to be more profitable, because that can never happen. Taking a huge salary cut ( I will be making 1/3-1/4 of what I make in US), but at the end the family situation would be resolved. All of a sudden, money is not the only factor when family comes into play.
You could look at sites like dubizzle and get ideas as to how much the base salary and salary for a senior doctor (this will be your category) is. Keep in mind that most places will offer you accommodation and vehicle, trip to US and good benefits. On top of that being tax free (sometimes I think it's debatable).

Thx mehranR for your reply and guidance
I was busy so could not reply earlier. I agree that when it comes to family then money is not everything and that is the only reason i am even thinking of moving to Dubai. Have you already got a job offer from there? if yes then who did u contact ? i sent my cv to couple of recruiters with no reply. Who should i contact for job search over there. How do you know that you are getting a genuine and right package ?

drskg 15th October 2013 04:17 AM

Hi zaytoona,
thx for the reply... i saw on your previous post that salaries for the specialist are much higher then others. What does a specialist mean over there? does it has to do with the years of experience or your subspecialist training? I have work experience of >3 yr after my board certification. What salary should i expect over there is USD ?

drskg 15th October 2013 04:21 AM

Hi steve,
i have an indian passport? does that mean i will be paid much lesser then any other physician over at dubai? thats totally rubbish ! what they have to do with the passport country ?

Stevesolar 15th October 2013 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drskg (Post 2054650)
Hi steve,
i have an indian passport? does that mean i will be paid much lesser then any other physician over at dubai? thats totally rubbish ! what they have to do with the passport country ?

Sorry - but passport has a very big influence on what people are paid here.
It is a simple fact that employers gauge your worth based on your country of passport - as people from different countries can attract different salary rates, based on the salary levels in each country.
This applies across most professions including medical - for both nurses and doctors.
In Dubai the DHA assess whether you can be classed as a specialist or a consultant on how long you have been practising at your current level.
To be a consultant in Dubai - you need to have practised as a consultant elsewhere for at least 5 years. If less - then you are called a specialist (and this attracts a lower rate of pay).
If you are currently working as a consultant in USA - then packages on offer in Dubai will not look that generous, by comparison.
Cheers
Steve

zaytoona 15th October 2013 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drskg (Post 2054626)
Hi zaytoona,
thx for the reply... i saw on your previous post that salaries for the specialist are much higher then others. What does a specialist mean over there? does it has to do with the years of experience or your subspecialist training? I have work experience of >3 yr after my board certification. What salary should i expect over there is USD ?

Hi drskg,

A specialist from Egypt means someone who went on to residency and got a Masters or PhD. They usually teach at a University and have several years of practicing medicine in hospitals and private clinics.

US training means more money than an Egyptian specialist. A US specialist with sub-specialty training is paid even more depending on specialty. They really need specialists there.

Recruiters have told us his US citizenship will be paid more than his Egyptian Citizenship even with the three years of US training. However, we have contradictory advice from his medical colleagues working there who tells us that three years of US training will get you the Western pay range regardless of your nationality. We're inclined to believe that is the case because we know Syrian doctors working in KSA that have 3 years US training and are American board certified in Internal Medicine and who have 3 years post training experience working in the States and they're all making the Western pay range in KSA as doctors now without having US citizenship. Western pay range in the Gulf Arab States is not as much as you can make in the United States but in some areas it's tax free and it's comparable. You'll certainly have a good standard of living and comfortable life.

This is how we figure the pay range goes. It's based off of two categories. The medical training and the nationality.

For medical training their order of preference is: US, European Union, Arab, Indian/elsewhere. The more training the better the pay. More experience practicing medicine after training also means better pay.

For the nationality pay range considerations the western countries get highest preference followed by the Arabs since it's an Arab country and they know the language and culture and then everywhere else comes next.

They also are basing the pay range off of the country you're coming from meaning that if you make a certain pay range in India as a doctor they're going to pay you similar to what you'd make there and maybe a little more to make the offer attractive.

If you make a certain pay range as a doctor in Egypt they're going to pay you similar to that plus a little more to make it attractive to come there and practice medicine. Many Arab doctors outside the Gulf Arab States move there for several years because the pay is a little better than back home.

To attract doctors from Western countries they know they can't afford to meet their pay range but they can offer close to their pay range even if it's a little less. Then they cover your living expenses and some countries have no taxes so the rest of the income is take home. For those of us that keep our citizenship to the US we have to file taxes under world wide income and still pay something back home.

From quotes in the thread I linked in my prior post it said with three years US training and an American board certification in FM or IM you'd be considered a consultant in UAE.

The pay range is between 40,000 - 60,000 AED a month which at today's exchange rates is 10,890 - 16,335 USD. That's 130,690 - 196, 020 USD a year.

The total package including living expenses, schools expenses, flights was quoted at 1,000,000 AED a year or at today's exchange rates 272,257 USD a year.

We were told between 600,000 - 700,000 AED a year total or at today's rates 163,354 - 190,580 USD. We haven't matched in the States yet so we don't have three years of US training or years of experience practicing in the United States. We also don't have kids yet. They are counting the US citizenship, Egyptian medical training, ECFMG certification and his years of experience outside Egyptian training in hospitals and private practice.

Stevesolar 15th October 2013 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zaytoona (Post 2056602)
Hi drskg,

A specialist from Egypt means someone who went on to residency and got a Masters or PhD. They usually teach at a University and have several years of practicing medicine in hospitals and private clinics.

US training means more money than an Egyptian specialist. A US specialist with sub-specialty training is paid even more depending on specialty. They really need specialists there.

Recruiters have told us his US citizenship will be paid more than his Egyptian Citizenship even with the three years of US training. However, we have contradictory advice from his medical colleagues working there who tells us that three years of US training will get you the Western pay range regardless of your nationality. We're inclined to believe that is the case because we know Syrian doctors working in KSA that have 3 years US training and are American board certified in Internal Medicine and who have 3 years post training experience working in the States and they're all making the Western pay range in KSA as doctors now without having US citizenship. Western pay range in the Gulf Arab States is not as much as you can make in the United States but in some areas it's tax free and it's comparable. You'll certainly have a good standard of living and comfortable life.

This is how we figure the pay range goes. It's based off of two categories. The medical training and the nationality.

For medical training their order of preference is: US, European Union, Arab, Indian/elsewhere. The more training the better the pay. More experience practicing medicine after training also means better pay.

For the nationality pay range considerations the western countries get highest preference followed by the Arabs since it's an Arab country and they know the language and culture and then everywhere else comes next.

They also are basing the pay range off of the country you're coming from meaning that if you make a certain pay range in India as a doctor they're going to pay you similar to what you'd make there and maybe a little more to make the offer attractive.

If you make a certain pay range as a doctor in Egypt they're going to pay you similar to that plus a little more to make it attractive to come there and practice medicine. Many Arab doctors outside the Gulf Arab States move there for several years because the pay is a little better than back home.

To attract doctors from Western countries they know they can't afford to meet their pay range but they can offer close to their pay range even if it's a little less. Then they cover your living expenses and some countries have no taxes so the rest of the income is take home. For those of us that keep our citizenship to the US we have to file taxes under world wide income and still pay something back home.

From quotes in the thread I linked in my prior post it said with three years US training and an American board certification in FM or IM you'd be considered a consultant in UAE.

The pay range is between 40,000 - 60,000 AED a month which at today's exchange rates is 10,890 - 16,335 USD. That's 130,690 - 196, 020 USD a year.

The total package including living expenses, schools expenses, flights was quoted at 1,000,000 AED a year or at today's exchange rates 272,257 USD a year.

We were told between 600,000 - 700,000 AED a year total or at today's rates 163,354 - 190,580 USD. We haven't matched in the States yet so we don't have three years of US training or years of experience practicing in the United States. We also don't have kids yet. They are counting the US citizenship, Egyptian medical training, ECFMG certification and years of experience outside Egyptian training.

Well - good, long post with great information!
One small error - the pay range of 40,000-60,000 AED per month is for a specialist with less than 5 years.
A consultant with more than 5 years earns in the range of 55,000 to 80,000 AED per month.
Cheers
Steve


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