25,700 Maintenance Requirement from June 2012 according to Leaked Cabinet Letter - Page 21

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25,700 Maintenance Requirement from June 2012 according to Leaked Cabinet Letter - Page 21


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  #201 (permalink)  
Old 20th May 2012, 04:50 PM
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These proposals would mean that UK citizens who claim benefit or have a disability will be effectively blocked from bringing their loved ones to live with them in their country of right. Minorities clearly would be affected. This would persecute the thousands of genuine law abiding UK citizens who have partners from outside the UK, many UK citizens will be victimized for having done nothing wrong other than fall in love with a person from a non EU country. Totally human rights violation. We live in a Global world with worldwide communication via internet, telephones, travel and the government can not expect that people will not fall in love with people from outside the EU.

Please everyone, you must write a letter to your MP if this concerns you. All you have to do is write a concise, to the point email, find your MP via writetothem.com and send it to them. MPs work for us and this is the kind of thing they will represent you on.
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  #202 (permalink)  
Old 20th May 2012, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by newlight1 View Post
These proposals would mean that UK citizens who claim benefit or have a disability will be effectively blocked from bringing their loved ones to live with them in their country of right. Minorities clearly would be affected. This would persecute the thousands of genuine law abiding UK citizens who have partners from outside the UK, many UK citizens will be victimized for having done nothing wrong other than fall in love with a person from a non EU country. Totally human rights violation. We live in a Global world with worldwide communication via internet, telephones, travel and the government can not expect that people will not fall in love with people from outside the EU.

Please everyone, you must write a letter to your MP if this concerns you. All you have to do is write a concise, to the point email, find your MP via writetothem.com and send it to them. MPs work for us and this is the kind of thing they will represent you on.
I disagree.
While every British citizen has the right to marry or enter into partnership with anyone they choose, they have a choice to go and live in their spouse/partner's country, subject to its immigration rules, and don't have automatic right to bring them into UK with full access to NHS and other public services, to which their partners have contributed nothing.

We no longer live in a world with an open door policy to allow anyone, simply on the basis of marriage or partnership, to live and eventually settle in the country without considering the effects that will have on its economic and social welfare. Is it right that UK, in the middle of a damaging recession with stubbornly high levels of debt, continue to allow nearly 250,000 net immigrants, up 20% on 2010? Is it right that those migrants have full access to employment market, competing for a few jobs going with those born and brought up in this country, whose parents have paid taxes for years to build up and maintain our public services? Doesn't the society have the right to decide who should be allowed in, based on their financial resources and those of their UK sponsors?

British citizens and others settled here need to reflect on those issues if they choose as their permanent companion someone who is subject to immigration control.

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  #203 (permalink)  
Old 20th May 2012, 08:00 PM
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I also disagree with you.
No one should be denied the right to live in their own country should they wish to their spouse or Fiancee. You can not simply decide "ohh I will fall in love with this person or hmm I choose not to fall in love with this person as this person is from outside of the EU and would be therefore subject to Immigration Control".

Immigration controls are really not a natural feature of life. They appear to be timeless but they are relatively new. Britain had none at all till 1905. While I think there should be some of course, but they should be fair and humane which the proposals are not humane.

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Is it right that UK, in the middle of a damaging recession with stubbornly high levels of debt, continue to allow nearly 250,000 net immigrants, up 20% on 2010?
Who is responsible for the recession? The poor? The Disabled? The working class?? of course we know the answer to that, so why should innocent people suffer due to the banks/government errors?

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  #204 (permalink)  
Old 20th May 2012, 08:21 PM
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I disagree.
While every British citizen has the right to marry or enter into partnership with anyone they choose, they have a choice to go and live in their spouse/partner's country, subject to its immigration rules, and don't have automatic right to bring them into UK with full access to NHS and other public services, to which their partners have contributed nothing.

We no longer live in a world with an open door policy to allow anyone, simply on the basis of marriage or partnership, to live and eventually settle in the country without considering the effects that will have on its economic and social welfare. Is it right that UK, in the middle of a damaging recession with stubbornly high levels of debt, continue to allow nearly 250,000 net immigrants, up 20% on 2010? Is it right that those migrants have full access to employment market, competing for a few jobs going with those born and brought up in this country, whose parents have paid taxes for years to build up and maintain our public services? Doesn't the society have the right to decide who should be allowed in, based on their financial resources and those of their UK sponsors?

British citizens and others settled here need to reflect on those issues if they choose as their permanent companion someone who is subject to immigration control.
I think all of these aspects that you list are necessary to consider not only for the future but for the immediate present as well. Much of what you list greatly concerns spouses granted Indefinite Leave to Enter w/LITUK endorsement--these can immediately access public funds and the like and in the worst cases, become burdens on the state while the rest must wait 2 years and contribute through taxes but without access to public funds. On further reflection, immediate settlement for spouses who have been married for more than 4 years outside of the UK is generous to the point of verging on mad, as this time does not absolutely guarantee that a marriage is genuine. What is equally important at the outset but more important for the future is that the spouse experience living in the UK with his or her partner for a time, not only to "test the marriage" but also to find a position, find schools for their children and become acclamated with life in the country; its customs and culture. Unless we're talking about one seeking refugee status to avoid persecution and even death, settlement through the spousal route should mean something more than moving house. It should be about nation building--and of course this takes forsight and sacrifice and many degrees of discomfort.
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  #205 (permalink)  
Old 20th May 2012, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newlight1 View Post
I also disagree with you.
No one should be denied the right to live in their own country should they wish to their spouse or Fiancee. You can not simply decide "ohh I will fall in love with this person or hmm I choose not to fall in love with this person as this person is from outside of the EU and would be therefore subject to Immigration Control".

Immigration controls are really not a natural feature of life. They appear to be timeless but they are relatively new. Britain had none at all till 1905. While I think there should be some of course, but they should be fair and humane which the proposals are not humane.

Who is responsible for the recession? The poor? The Disabled? The working class?? of course we know the answer to that, so why should innocent people suffer due to the banks/government errors?
Governmenet, ie. our elected representatives, have the right and duty to control who can come into the country on the basis of what is in the national interest. The government has said UK wants to attract the brightest and the best who make a real difference to our prosperity and cultural life. Even the ECHR acknowledges that governments have the right to regulate for financial and economic reasons.

The fact we have recession and high unemployment means that there is strong public demand to curtail immigration and the government have pledged to reduce immigration from 250,000 to below 100,000 by 2015, which is backed by 80% of the electorates.

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  #206 (permalink)  
Old 20th May 2012, 09:03 PM
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lols. What if you're moving from a country that's also suffering from recession (a.k.a the US) into the UK?... I'm screwed either way tbh. Immigrate to the US, I'm still stuck having to deal with the fact that there are so many illegal immigrants coming to this country... move to the UK... it's all the same. It's fair enough you say oh well just move to the other person's country... but for me and many of the other people from the US/UK there's a ton of obstacles no matter what... you can say, well that's what you asked for when you went into a long distance relationship.. but that's kind of heartless is it not?... Darryl's one of the sweetest, kindest people I've ever met, So many American guys have treated me horribly but he actually treated me like I was his girlfriend.. not just his play thing.. which is why I agreed to marry him. I'd rather not have something as trivial as a visa in my way... Sure, Darryl and I will probably be ok... but with this projected 5 year probationary period, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't scared. For the moment he has a great job.. great salary.. but what happens should god forbid, his business go under... or he gets made redundant... I realize these are normal things that people not in the situation i'm in are going through, but unlike them, I could lose the chance to be with my husband... and maybe be separated from him for a while. Also, I'm hoping to have kids... but if I choose to have them within the 5 year probation period.. I choose to risk not getting my visa renewed because my husband doesn't make 60k/year... I'll be living a very restricted marriage... we're unable to do what we want due to the massive uncertainty... sure we kind of asked for it by moving countries... but that doesn't mean it's not going to hurt. I'm really terrified... You can use the excuse, well the UK is having to pay taxes for us to be there... but if I had the choice for them not to have to pay taxes for me to be there, I would take it... also considering the fact that most UK citizens don't have to pay the outrageous application fees and moving fees that I'll be paying and that you all have universal healthcare, when I'll have to pay to use the doctors and such.. which i'm not necessarily complaining about... but.. every country has their problems... When I go over I'll more than likely be working a desk job of some sort... and if I take it from another English person, it's because I was better suited for the job just as the English person in my country was better suited for the job... let's not forget that English people move around too. Letterman's been joking about it for years how English actors have been stealing acting roles from the Americans... I'm guessing they steal jobs from other Americans as well... So.. with that in mind.. if this gets passed.. I'll do what I can in order to keep myself afloat.. but I'd rather not have to have this to worry about... especially not when my husband's 27 and we both wanted to start having kids before he turns 30..

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  #207 (permalink)  
Old 20th May 2012, 09:25 PM
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Let's keep the tone of this discussion moderate and friendly. After all, we are well known for giving and receiving helpful advice.

It's difficult to approach a loaded topic like immigration dispassionately and objectively, because most of us have a personal reason to be on this forum, either as would-be migrant, migrant already in UK or as sponsor. So we cannot help getting personal and feeling hurt when people seem to be attacking us.

It's always been difficult to hold a civilised discussion on immigration in UK because either you are labelled racist or bleeding-heart liberal. But it's an issue that won't go away, and a robust yet fair immigration policy is essential for economic, financial, social and humanitarian reasons.

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  #208 (permalink)  
Old 20th May 2012, 09:39 PM
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When my husband and I decided to live in the UK for the rest of our lives, we did so with the agreement that I would not try to find work-my work skills and qualifications while (she sez modestly) rather good are not ones on the shortage list and we did not want me to take a job from a British-born job candidate. I also have private health care which takes up quite a bit of my very modest pension.

We live quietly, we live modestly. But it is sometimes a razors edge really, to be in the UK as an 'outlander', people assume things about those of us who come over from another country. I sometimes am guilty of giving 'TMI' because I am so anxious that people understand I present no burden to the State, that I am not now nor will I ever be a burden on the State, that I am only two generations out of Caithness-my father was the first in our family to be born and buried outside of Scotland in nearly a thousand years.

I think one of the hardest parts about deciding to live in Scotland with my husband as opposed to him living with me in America is that there is a very real anger towards immigrants, it's palpable at times. Having lived in countries where violence against immigrants has boiled over into rioting and attacks against expats, it's a little worrisome sometimes, I have to admit. I don't think anything like that could happen here, but I have some wicked bad memories of Guatemala. When I read the comments under some of the articles on the proposed changes, the vehemence and ignorance of the fact that most of us have no intention of ever accessing public funds is a reminder of those frightening scenes in Central America.

British born citizens have every right to be angry about unrestrained immigration. They have every right to expect their government to enact and enforce laws to curb the unrestrained immigration that is straining the UK resources. The UK is an island, and not a big one, it's less than 900 miles from end to end, for heaven sake. Most of us who are here from America come from states that are bigger than the whole UK put together.

The abuses of British hospitality are shocking and I don't blame anyone for their feelings about unrestrained immigration, and the abuses. This island is too small to take in everyone, so those who come here MUST pay their own way, it's the only way this can work.

I think it is the responsibility of every expat immigrant to walk very carefully in our new communities, and that includes especially not becoming a burden on the State. We MUST contribute, we must provide for ourselves.

I just wish there was a way to get it across to people that most of us aren't here to be 'useless eaters', we're here to, as Joppa put it,
Quote:
...make a positive economic and cultural contribution
Joppa is also right in saying this is a difficult, loaded topic to discuss. But I hope we find a way to do so, because I would love to know-would it help if I had a tee-shirt made saying "No Really, I'm Paying My Own Way, And My GrandParents Are Buried Here!"?
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  #209 (permalink)  
Old 20th May 2012, 10:36 PM
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1. Sorry for getting really passionate back there, but I did feel like what you said came off a bit insulting, Joppa. I understand you're basing this completely on facts and what you're saying is true... but I feel like more of the blame should be put on the companies who hire immigrants than the people who choose to apply for the job, but that's just my opinion on the matter. ^^" I am willing to pay the extra fees, but it almost feels like I'm a bit of an ant underneath a magnifying glass with these added regulations. Also worth noting is that I had absolutely no choice when my forefathers decided on becoming independent from England... just throwing that in there for good measure. :P

2. And this is specifically to AnAmericanInScotland, I admire that you can be so modest. However, I'm not in the position to do the same. I'm not going to beat around the bush, I need a job. Whether it's in America or the UK or Japan, whatever. I'd feel really horrible if I had to rely on my husband for tuition payments. If I didn't have that + the visa payments and so forth, I'd consider perhaps just a part time job, but for the moment, I just could not do that. Thankfully, I have a really great family lined up in the UK who are willing to help me with this... if anyone does choose to mess with me though, I'm more than willing to either ignore them or give them the finger in response depending on my mood. :P
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Old 20th May 2012, 11:16 PM
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I'm closing this thread until definite announcement is made.

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