Work experience/qualifications points question

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Work experience/qualifications points question


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Old 14th May 2013, 11:26 AM
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Default Work experience/qualifications points question

Hi

I'm having a question with my work experience and qualifications and can't seem to get a clear picture with the resources available online. It's more a like obtaining advice specific to my unique circumstance.

I'm an ICT professional with about 16 years of work experience to date. My work experience starts from Oct 1996 and have been working since with about 1 and half years of gaps in total between employment during this time. However most of this experience is without a formal qualification as I obtained my degree only in the latter part of 2009. My occupation is Computer Network and Systems Engineer - ANZSCO 263111 which is a skill level 1 occupation.

I'm aware that although ACS may give me a positive assessment and take into account all of the years that I've worked, DIAC may interpret it differently. (I have read some posts in this forum of such cases). To avoid this situation I'm wanting to calculate my points with the most pessimistic values possible.

Now coming to my question, the ANZSCO description states that "Most occupations in this unit group have a level of skill commensurate with a bachelor degree or higher qualification. At least five years of relevant experience and/or relevant vendor certification may substitute for the formal qualification. In some instances relevant experience and/or on-the-job training may be required in addition to the formal qualification (ANZSCO Skill Level 1)."

Based on the above,

1.) Is it possible to consider the initial 5 years of my work experience beginning from Oct 1996 to Oct 2001 (at company X) as a substitute period for the formal qualification?. Will DIAC accept this by default? (This period is however more than 10 years from the present date)

2.) If so, within the last 10 years, can I claim 5 or 8 years of experience and obtain 10 or 15 points respectively ?

Sorry for the long post, but I thought if sufficient information is given it would make it more clear for the reader. . I would appreciate if a senior member with lots of experience can shed some light on this.

Thanks.

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Old 14th May 2013, 12:15 PM
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Hi mustu521,

two scenarios come to mind:

A) General Assessment
I'll assume that you received your bachelor (?) degree in an ICT-related area in 2009. With that you can apply for skills assessment. ACS requires two years of work experience post-degree (see ACS Summary of Criteria), so according to that calculation you became skilled in late 2011 - which would leave you with only 2012/13 to claim points. If the employment was overseas you will get no points for that. You can claim points (15) for your bachelor, though.

B) Recognition of Prior Learning (RPL)
Alternatively, you can apply based on your extensive work experience in ICT. Fortunately the work experience that substitutes for the formal qualification does not have to be within the last ten years. If you want to claim the maximum points for work experience you could submit an RPL application. According to the ACS Summery of Criteria you'll need at least 6 years of closely relevant work experience. Your work experience from 1996 to 2002 could - potentially - substitute for a formal qualification. You could then claim full points for work experience within the last 10 years (15 if overseas). I'm not sure if it would be advisable to 1) include the bachelor degree certificate and curriculum with the application or to 2) submit it separately for a recognition letter. Variant 2 costs twice as much but variant 1 could lead to you getting assessed via the degree instead of prior experience.

Just my two cents - hope that helps somewhat.

Cheerio,
Monika

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Old 14th May 2013, 01:14 PM
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Hi Monika

Thanks for your response.

Yes my degree is an ICT degree and all of my work experience in out of Australia. I think the ACS Summary of Criteria is a bit misleading. I know for a fact that someone who graduated in 2008 had got all of his work experience since then counted. (2008 to 2012). If what you say is applied, then he would have got only 2 years of experience. In my understanding of the Summary of Criteria both degree+2yrs work is required for a positive assessment.

I think we need more input from other forum members.

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Old 14th May 2013, 01:46 PM
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Hi Mustu521,

ACS assessment and DIAC processing are 2 different things.

1) ACS will assess you positive on the basis of the degree completed in 2009 or RPL, whichever you prefer. Though, I would recommend the degree option as it is much simpler.

2) DIAC is very clear that they'll only consider "Skilled Employment" which is after your degree, so DIAC will only consider the no. of years after you obtained bachelor degree. This is irrespective of how much experience ACS mentions on the letter. Be cautious of the experience dates you put in your EOI to avoid auto-calculation of points, which will ultimately result in visa refusal.

Some may argue otherwise that DIAC considers whatever has been assessed by ACS, but there are many similar cases on this forum (try searching) whose visa got refused. I had also pasted the link from DIAC specifically mentioning this point on this forum earlier and will search for the same.

I was in the same boat as yourself -- ACS assessed all of my 7+ yrs of experience, i.e. before my bachelor degree in 2010, but after going through the other cases, I only claimed 2 yrs of experience and went for State Sponsorship visa.

Cheers!

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Old 14th May 2013, 03:38 PM
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Hi mustu521,

amittal is correct: They only thing you want from ACS is positive assessment and the AQF equivalence rating for your degree. Work experience was always calculated according to slightly different rules by ACS and DIAC although DIAC takes the ACS opinion "under consideration". To quote from the 189 SkillSelect page - points section:
Quote:
The relevant authority that assessed your skills may also provide an opinion on your skilled employment experience. The department will consider this opinion when awarding points.
The problem is, that this led to certain problems with the work experience calculation in the EOIs. People would put in work experience that took place prior to their degree (because ACS assessed it as relevant) and then DIAC would not accept it and the visa got refused due to overclaiming on points. But some applicants "slipped" through, either because the CO overlooked it or because s/he was not quite sure about the rules either. To add to the confusion, the ANZSCO descriptions on the DIAC homepage usually have a paragraph like this:

Quote:
At least five years of relevant experience may substitute for the formal qualification.
ACS requires at least 6 years of relevant experience if you want positive assessment via RPL. Other assessment authorities may only ask for five. Does "substitute" mean that you cannot count those years when claiming points? Or can you claim points for the six years? And isn't it a bit unfair that you lose an extra year compared to other applicants? What if you go through General Skills assessment - can you count those two years post-degree or should you leave them out?

Until recently the "understanding" was that you could not claim points for "substitution years" but everything AFTER the bachelor degree was ok. I got my visa in February 2013 and yes, DIAC accepted the entire work experience after my degree. But it was still a very confusing situation. Recently, ACS started issuing result letters in a new format, which is both stricter (and clearer). The updated Skills Assessment Guidelines now state:

Quote:
Only employment completed after the date you have met the ACS requirements will be counted as skilled employment. Please see the Summary of Criteria for additional information.
Since DIAC only counts work experience at a "skilled" level this means you can claim two years less than your colleague who graduated in 2008 and got assessment sooner . Sorry, but generally I'm glad that ACS finally clarified this point. This should reduce the number of accidental overclaims a lot, one should hope.

Details and discussions with fellow applicants in the loop: http://www.expatforum.com/expats/aus...-time-561.html

All the best,
Monika
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Old 15th May 2013, 09:32 AM
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Thanks Monika and amittal.

I tend to agree with amittal, the RPL process is quite lengthy and complex. To make matters worse there are two companies that I worked for in the past not existing anymore. I did not know about the new ACS requirement of having degree+2yrs as a minimum to become "Skilled". This would mean my options are now very limited despite having 15+ years of work experience in the industry

I also have an Advanced Diploma in Computer Studies that I acquired sometime in 2002 or 2003. This is equivalent to the NCC advanced diploma and is validated by the university of Cambridge. Can I claim work experience points post qualification of this diploma?. The (ACS Summary of Criteria) states you need 5 or 6 years along with the Adv Diploma to be skilled. This would leave me about 3 years to claim points for post qualifying work experience. Would I still be able to claim points for the degree that I obtained in 2009 under education?. Would DIAC accept this experience?

Any other suggestions are most welcomed. It's really a shame that all of my 15+ years of work experience is of no use for this process.

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Old 15th May 2013, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espresso View Post
Hi mustu521,

amittal is correct: They only thing you want from ACS is positive assessment and the AQF equivalence rating for your degree. Work experience was always calculated according to slightly different rules by ACS and DIAC although DIAC takes the ACS opinion "under consideration". To quote from the 189 SkillSelect page - points section:


The problem is, that this led to certain problems with the work experience calculation in the EOIs. People would put in work experience that took place prior to their degree (because ACS assessed it as relevant) and then DIAC would not accept it and the visa got refused due to overclaiming on points. But some applicants "slipped" through, either because the CO overlooked it or because s/he was not quite sure about the rules either. To add to the confusion, the ANZSCO descriptions on the DIAC homepage usually have a paragraph like this:



ACS requires at least 6 years of relevant experience if you want positive assessment via RPL. Other assessment authorities may only ask for five. Does "substitute" mean that you cannot count those years when claiming points? Or can you claim points for the six years? And isn't it a bit unfair that you lose an extra year compared to other applicants? What if you go through General Skills assessment - can you count those two years post-degree or should you leave them out?

Until recently the "understanding" was that you could not claim points for "substitution years" but everything AFTER the bachelor degree was ok. I got my visa in February 2013 and yes, DIAC accepted the entire work experience after my degree. But it was still a very confusing situation. Recently, ACS started issuing result letters in a new format, which is both stricter (and clearer). The updated Skills Assessment Guidelines now state:



Since DIAC only counts work experience at a "skilled" level this means you can claim two years less than your colleague who graduated in 2008 and got assessment sooner . Sorry, but generally I'm glad that ACS finally clarified this point. This should reduce the number of accidental overclaims a lot, one should hope.

Details and discussions with fellow applicants in the loop: http://www.expatforum.com/expats/aus...-time-561.html

All the best,
Monika
Hi

I had a query on the above information. As per the info people who have applied earlier for assessment ie before April 22 2013 can claim points for the experience taken to achieve the skilled level because they applied before the time. However my question is ACS assesment and EOI are two different things and can be done at two different timeS.

Now asauming person 1 applied for ACS last year and got results in earlier format which doesnot put any restriction to how much he can claim for his experience after degree. However he takes time to reach required IELTS or other criterion to apply for EOI and applies now claiming all points for experience after degree . Will he be rejected by DIAC on based on the new ACS rules.

If no then why will a person who got results now and applied instantly as he met all the criterion will be rejected. Meaning only the result letter format change will impact visa decision an awarding of points from DIAC even though both have same experience?

Personally I don't think DIAC will have two rules just based on ACS fault letter. Also there are no rule changes mentioned by DIAC so why will a person get points and visa today with same points and why not others just because ACS changed their results letter format.

Please she'd light on this scenario...

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Old 15th May 2013, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobeaussie View Post
Hi

I had a query on the above information. As per the info people who have applied earlier for assessment ie before April 22 2013 can claim points for the experience taken to achieve the skilled level because they applied before the time. However my question is ACS assesment and EOI are two different things and can be done at two different timeS.

Now asauming person 1 applied for ACS last year and got results in earlier format which doesnot put any restriction to how much he can claim for his experience after degree. However he takes time to reach required IELTS or other criterion to apply for EOI and applies now claiming all points for experience after degree . Will he be rejected by DIAC on based on the new ACS rules.

If no then why will a person who got results now and applied instantly as he met all the criterion will be rejected. Meaning only the result letter format change will impact visa decision an awarding of points from DIAC even though both have same experience?

Personally I don't think DIAC will have two rules just based on ACS fault letter. Also there are no rule changes mentioned by DIAC so why will a person get points and visa today with same points and why not others just because ACS changed their results letter format.

Please she'd light on this scenario...
Also definition of skilled employment is different for ACS and DIAC. DIAC considers ANZCO apecification for the relevance of employment and ACS has their own rules.

Also had a chat with DIAC and they said i can claim points if i can prove it is relevant experience after a degree. This prompted Me to consider all experience after my degree in EOI although ACS letter says a different date.

I don't know now if I am In Trouble for this, but I think I will have to wait for CO to comment as I have already lodged application.

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Last edited by tobeaussie; 15th May 2013 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 15th May 2013, 11:02 AM
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so whom to accept clear rules

ACS or DIAC

DIAC says relevent experience will be counted..


while ACS comes with deducted min 2 yr after degree..if not relevent 4 yr...

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Old 15th May 2013, 12:52 PM
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I think this is very unfair for ACS to change rules overnight without any prior information about it. Now it's a very confusing state as ACS says one thing and DIAC says another!

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