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monima 16th February 2013 12:40 AM

Difference between ICT Business Analyst 261111 and Systems Analyst 261112
 
Does anyone know the difference between ICT Business Analyst and Systems Analyst? We have been denied TWICE by ACS for ICT Business Analyst even though the work references clearly state the tasks listed and the job description.

ACS will not give any clear answer - all they say is "You have to read the guide and look at the description." We did!! Twice!! And nobody will say what exactly needs to be done differently for a positive assessment!

The list of tasks for Business and Systems Analyst are EXACTLY THE SAME. The only difference is the job description:

ICT Business Analyst
Identifies and communicates with users to formulate and produce a requirements specification to create system and software solutions.

Systems Analyst
Evaluates processes and methods used in existing ICT systems, proposes modifications, additional system components or new systems to meet user needs as expressed in specifications and other documentation.

The only thing I'm thinking we can do differently is apply for Systems Analyst, but we can't keep losing money to the ACS mafia. Does anyone have experience getting a negative assessment and what they did differently to later get a positive one?

spin123 16th February 2013 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monima (Post 1057018)
Does anyone know the difference between ICT Business Analyst and Systems Analyst? We have been denied TWICE by ACS for ICT Business Analyst even though the work references clearly state the tasks listed and the job description.

ACS will not give any clear answer - all they say is "You have to read the guide and look at the description." We did!! Twice!! And nobody will say what exactly needs to be done differently for a positive assessment!

The list of tasks for Business and Systems Analyst are EXACTLY THE SAME. The only difference is the job description:

ICT Business Analyst
Identifies and communicates with users to formulate and produce a requirements specification to create system and software solutions.

Systems Analyst
Evaluates processes and methods used in existing ICT systems, proposes modifications, additional system components or new systems to meet user needs as expressed in specifications and other documentation.

The only thing I'm thinking we can do differently is apply for Systems Analyst, but we can't keep losing money to the ACS mafia. Does anyone have experience getting a negative assessment and what they did differently to later get a positive one?

Did you go through the roles & responsibilities defined for Systems/Business Analyst and was your service letter prepared accordingly?

Further what is your qualification?

monima 16th February 2013 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin123 (Post 1057035)
Did you go through the roles & responsibilities defined for Systems/Business Analyst and was your service letter prepared accordingly?

Further what is your qualification?

Yes, we went through the Anzsco list thoroughly and ensured that our documentation matched. We really don't know what the problem is. I am extremely detail oriented with these things, but there's something that's not being communicated by ACS.

With one employer, it may be due to the HR letter. We had to beg multiple times to get HR to provide a letter and they did a stock letter based on old information. To complement this, we provided a very detailed letter by the client who affirmed the correct work that was done - all aligning exactly with the Anzsco description.

What is weird is that the first assessment we did in 2011 gave 2 yrs 4 months total credit, however the 2012 assessment completely contradicted the first assessment and gave ZERO credit for these positions. It says "insufficient documentation", although we provided the exact same documentation as before and all according to their specifications!

The first assessment was for IT experience alone and we used a lawyer who had us do a few revisions to get the documentation "just so". Because ACS didn't give us enough credit, we waited for my husband to graduate from his Masters of Enterprise Systems program to reapply (which required less experience). All we needed was a letter from ACS that approved his Master's program. We made the mistake of paying the extra $25 to get ACS to provide their official review of his work experience. The thought was that he gained more experience since then so the total experience he'd be credited for would be greater than 2 yrs 4 mo. WRONG! They received the exact same documentation as the first time, plus documentation for his latest role and they gave no credit for work at all!

Both his bachelor's and master's degrees are in IT with most classes being relevant as assessed by ACS. The problem is the work referee letters.

The lady from ACS said that we need to review the documentation (done many times) and ensure that his documents don't apply more to another Anzsco code. I don't know if she was hinting that maybe people apply for ICT Business Analyst when they should really be Systems Analyst or what.

spin123 16th February 2013 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monima (Post 1057120)
Yes, we went through the Anzsco list thoroughly and ensured that our documentation matched. We really don't know what the problem is. I am extremely detail oriented with these things, but there's something that's not being communicated by ACS.

With one employer, it may be due to the HR letter. We had to beg multiple times to get HR to provide a letter and they did a stock letter based on old information. To complement this, we provided a very detailed letter by the client who affirmed the correct work that was done - all aligning exactly with the Anzsco description.

What is weird is that the first assessment we did in 2011 gave 2 yrs 4 months total credit, however the 2012 assessment completely contradicted the first assessment and gave ZERO credit for these positions. It says "insufficient documentation", although we provided the exact same documentation as before and all according to their specifications!

The first assessment was for IT experience alone and we used a lawyer who had us do a few revisions to get the documentation "just so". Because ACS didn't give us enough credit, we waited for my husband to graduate from his Masters of Enterprise Systems program to reapply (which required less experience). All we needed was a letter from ACS that approved his Master's program. We made the mistake of paying the extra $25 to get ACS to provide their official review of his work experience. The thought was that he gained more experience since then so the total experience he'd be credited for would be greater than 2 yrs 4 mo. WRONG! They received the exact same documentation as the first time, plus documentation for his latest role and they gave no credit for work at all!

Both his bachelor's and master's degrees are in IT with most classes being relevant as assessed by ACS. The problem is the work referee letters.

The lady from ACS said that we need to review the documentation (done many times) and ensure that his documents don't apply more to another Anzsco code. I don't know if she was hinting that maybe people apply for ICT Business Analyst when they should really be Systems Analyst or what.

Okie that's a very detailed explanation. :)

As per my knowledge, ACS normally proposes an occupation code if the occupation that has been applied by the applicant does not match.

Can you provide the details you got in the service letters here. remove any private information. also provide the start & end dates of each employment.

Don't worry....we'll see what we can do.... :)

JBY 16th February 2013 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monima (Post 1057120)
Yes, we went through the Anzsco list thoroughly and ensured that our documentation matched. We really don't know what the problem is. I am extremely detail oriented with these things, but there's something that's not being communicated by ACS.

With one employer, it may be due to the HR letter. We had to beg multiple times to get HR to provide a letter and they did a stock letter based on old information. To complement this, we provided a very detailed letter by the client who affirmed the correct work that was done - all aligning exactly with the Anzsco description.

What is weird is that the first assessment we did in 2011 gave 2 yrs 4 months total credit, however the 2012 assessment completely contradicted the first assessment and gave ZERO credit for these positions. It says "insufficient documentation", although we provided the exact same documentation as before and all according to their specifications!

The first assessment was for IT experience alone and we used a lawyer who had us do a few revisions to get the documentation "just so". Because ACS didn't give us enough credit, we waited for my husband to graduate from his Masters of Enterprise Systems program to reapply (which required less experience). All we needed was a letter from ACS that approved his Master's program. We made the mistake of paying the extra $25 to get ACS to provide their official review of his work experience. The thought was that he gained more experience since then so the total experience he'd be credited for would be greater than 2 yrs 4 mo. WRONG! They received the exact same documentation as the first time, plus documentation for his latest role and they gave no credit for work at all!

Both his bachelor's and master's degrees are in IT with most classes being relevant as assessed by ACS. The problem is the work referee letters.

The lady from ACS said that we need to review the documentation (done many times) and ensure that his documents don't apply more to another Anzsco code. I don't know if she was hinting that maybe people apply for ICT Business Analyst when they should really be Systems Analyst or what.

Hi,

if you provide us with the content of the job description letters, and reference letters that you submitted to ACS we maybe able to help you and better understand why ACS rejected. Keep in mind it's v important that your letter matches what ACS expects from ICT Business analyst.

there is a difference between sys & biz analyst, however there is a thin line and many biz analysts end up doing a sys analyst job or both.

The KEY is reading the job description from the anzco code, and making sure the reference letter closely matches what ACS expects from the job code.

monima 16th February 2013 09:07 AM

Thank you so much for the help! Below is the text pertinent to describing the work:

Job 1 (HR Dept - role description and title not accurate, but it confirms employment)

"This letter is to confirm employment of [name] with [company] for the period [3 years].

The position was a full time, permanent, position as a Technical Helpdesk
Specialist providing functional leadership, project coordination, system
upgrades, customers/management resolution support, technical advisor.
The annual salary for [name] was approximately [amount], while
working 40 hours weekly."

Job 1 (from client that more accurately describes work): ACS "not closely related"

"!t is with pride that I recommend [name] as a candidate in his pursuit of a Master's
degree, as well as for opportunities he may have for employment. I am the current
manager of [client company].
[Client company] has outsourced our corporate help desk services for
the last three years to [company]. [Name] has
served as Level 2 Lead Analyst for our account since January, 2007. The Level 2
Analyst is responsible for ensuring that all issues reported from our corporate restaurants
are reported and follow through to resolution. This includes working with the [client company] Level 3 Analysts remotely to ensure resolution steps are taken.
The Level 3 team has the highest regards when working with [name] on any
issue. They view him as a verv reliable resource that is always diligent to ensure all
process and procedures are followed, ensuring that all escalated issues have had all
resolution steps performed and validated prior to the issue being elevated to the next
level. [Name] has single-handedly taken the responsibility of ensuring that a newly
installed platform in our [Country] region has had all process and procedures put in place
to allow for a more streamlined Level 1 approach, most times creating and validating the
documentation himself to expedite the process and decrease resolution time. Whenever I
am faced with the need to work with [name] on any issue, whether is it escalated or if it is
an inquiry, I have received only the utmost respect and diligence.
[Name]s impact is felt outside of the immediate help desk. When either a [client company] Corporate resource calls in, or regional field based operations management, there are
only accolades for the service received by [name].

Job 2: ACS didn't list this one way or the other in either assessment letter although we gave them the documents

"This letter is to confirm the engagement of [name] with [company] for a one
month contract commencing [date].

[Name] was contracted by the Business Development team to assist with research related to
possible USA based Channel Partners for our sustainable development software.
[Name]'s tasks included:
• The identification and definition of search criteria and capability requirements of potential
Channel Partners;
• Web based research to locate potentially suitable organisations based on the search criteria;
• Evaluation of the organisations against the Channel Partner search criteria;
• Shortlisting of the above organisations;
• Completion of a SWOT analysis of the shortlisted organisations;
• Recommendations of the most suitable organisations to approach based on the above.
[Name] was paid [amount] per hour to deliver during this contract. [He was good at what he did, etc. etc....]

Job 3: ACS: "not closely related"

"This letter is to confirm employment of [name] with [company] for the period
[4 months].
[Name] was employed as a Sr. Quality Assurance Specialist. In this role he performed the
following duties:
• Identify, formulate , and document test requirements
• Provide advice, guidance, expertise and assistance in the Quality Assurance decision process
and in the development of proposals and strategies
• Identify and evaluate inefficiencies, deficiencies and limitations in existing systems and
associated process, procedures and methods, and recommended optimal business practices,
and system functionality and behaviour
• Test, debug, and diagnose problems to ensure acceptable quality and integrity of the system,
and that programs and applications perform to specification
• Design test plans for the Quality Assurance Department
• Use tools such as Marathon and Sonar for testing and debugging systems
The salary for [name] was approximately [amount], while working 20 hours weekly.

Job 4: ACS "not closely related"

This is to certify that [name] is an employee of [company] and has been employed
from [1 yr ago] and is still currently with us [letter date].
[Name] is employed on a full time basis and as a Product Development Manager
His Duties and Responsibilities are:
• Profit analysis on current and new rate plans
• Source new products
• Negotiate to improve pricing on hardware costs and delivery
• Design and development of products
• Negotiate with suppliers for better pricing on current and new products
• Business analysis on proposed products
• Customer surveys
Revision and tweaking of low selling [telecommunications] plans and products to increase sales volumes
Reporting and management of P N L
Implementation of plans into the billing platform

monima 16th February 2013 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin123 (Post 1057150)
Okie that's a very detailed explanation. :)

As per my knowledge, ACS normally proposes an occupation code if the occupation that has been applied by the applicant does not match.

Can you provide the details you got in the service letters here. remove any private information. also provide the start & end dates of each employment.

Don't worry....we'll see what we can do.... :)

You would think that they would propose an occupation code that does match, but ACS has told us multiple times that they will not do that. They say it is up to us to select the appropriate code.

SERPIN 16th February 2013 10:32 AM

Hi Monima,
Sorry to hear you struggle with ACS. I obtained my 10 years positive assessment from ACS last year for 261111. I read the reference letter you posted and I can suggest you to be more solid and detailed. Here is a part of my job description which I wrote myself and approved it to the HR department. May be you can use this as a template for yourself. I hope I can help in some way. Best of luck!

To whom it may concern,

We declare that [Name] has been working in [Company] in [City/Country] since [Date] until today as a full time (45 hours/week) employee. She worked in the IT department as a [Title] between [Date]. She was later promoted to [Title] in [Date] where she held this position until [Date] and was promoted once more to [Title] position. She took the role of [Title] in [Date] which she currently holds.


Her responsibilities as [Title] since [Date] are:

- Assuring professional project competency by establishing and maintaining models, processes, templates and best practices for IT project management.
- Enforcing SDLC (Systems Development Life Cycle) standards and required regulations to projects.
- Responsible for collecting and analyzing all types of IT related requests from internal customers.
- Couching internal customers for preparing user requirements specifications.
- Responsible for creating functional specifications with internal customers.
- Proactively communicating and collaborating with internal customers to create system and software solutions based on user requirements specifications.
- Collaborating with developers and subject matter experts to establish the technical vision and analyze tradeoffs between usability and performance needs.
- Organizing meetings with related stakeholders and informing all stakeholders of project progress on regular basis.
- Couching consultants for preparing business blueprints, design specifications and configuration specifications.
- Guiding internal customers for preparing and executing test scripts and user manuals.
- Organizing end-user trainings before system go-live.
- Responsible for keeping all project documentation up-to-date (User Requirements Specifications (URS), Business Blueprints, Risk Analysis, Functional and Design Specifications, Functional Testing, Requirements Traceability Matrix)
- Managing, generating and reviewing global/local policies, standards, procedures based on Good Manufacturing Practices (GMP), ITIL and ISO regulations.
- Responsible for creating and revising IT department budget.
- Outsourcing Relationship Management (ORM).
- Managing SLA’s with external service providers.

She managed the following projects with her [Title] Role:
• [Project 1]
• [Project 2]
• [Project 3]
• [Project 4]
• [Project 5]

She supported the following projects with her [Title] Role:
• [Project 1]
• [Project 2]

spin123 16th February 2013 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monima (Post 1057302)
You would think that they would propose an occupation code that does match, but ACS has told us multiple times that they will not do that. They say it is up to us to select the appropriate code.


Hi Monima,

When I read through the roles & responsibilities for each company i feel some are not related to Systems/Business Analyst. I maybe wrong and there might be people who have submitted similar letters who have got through. Just keep in mind that for each service letter you provide, you need to satisfy at least 60-70% task mentioned below. that means around 5 points at least.

Anyhow what i mentioned above is my observation. maybe somebody else could chip in here as well. i'll PM you my service letters so that you could get some idea from them. Just to tell you i'm not from a very technical background and my two service letters were quite generic. however i was able to get through.

Good luck & all the best to you. Let us know if you need further help.

working with users to formulate and document business requirements
identifying, investigating, and analysing business processes, procedures and work practices
identifying and evaluating inefficiencies and recommending optimal business practices, and system functionality and behaviour
using project management methodologies, principles and techniques to develop project plans and to cost, resource and manage projects
taking responsibility for deploying functional solutions, such as creating, adopting and implementing system test plans, which ensure acceptable quality and integrity of the system
creating user and training documentation, and conducting formal training classes
developing functional specifications for use by system developers
using data and process modelling techniques to create clear system specifications for the design and development of system software
acting as a central reference and information source, providing guidance and assistance in the system project decision making process

spin123 16th February 2013 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monima (Post 1057302)
You would think that they would propose an occupation code that does match, but ACS has told us multiple times that they will not do that. They say it is up to us to select the appropriate code.

Ok seems like i can't PM you just as yet. can you increase your no post by a couple or so. Then i'll send you the details i mentioned.


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