Australian citizenship residence calculation - Please clarify (especially OzBound - Page 5

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Australian citizenship residence calculation - Please clarify (especially OzBound - Page 5


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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 22nd July 2018, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by jayptl View Post
Hi guys anyone help me I am in doubt about whether I am eligible for citizenship or not?

timeline
First arrived ; 08/08/2008
Absense period: 17/11/2012 to 07/12/2014
Later arrived: 08/12/2014
PR granted: 25/05/2017

As per checking online browser of residency checker I am eligible for citizenship now..but it mentiones last 4 yr stays immedietly..
and 2nd para it mentions past 4 year...

So confused??

seek guide from senior expat.
I know this is a post from 3 months ago but I'm replying to clarify this point for other people who might be in a similar situation.

If the residency checker says you are eligible then you must be. The online citizenship application form will not allow you to continue unless you are so I suggest trying to complete it to see what happens.

In theory you met all the requirements back in May this year, assuming you were not offshore for more than 90 days in the previous 12 months. By then you had been an Australian PR for one year and had been a resident for more than four in total. Your residency period would be counted from August 2008.

You were offshore for almost two years but not for more than one within the last four. If you start counting back four years from May 2018 you get to May 2014. You were offshore from May to December 2014, which is 7 months only. Therefore, you met all the conditions to be eligible for citizenship.

If you haven't submitted your application yet I would suggest doing it asap. There is a new bill that will be discussed in Parliament probably in August and if it passes it will change the minimum number of years as a PR from one to four. That would make you ineligible for citizenship until May 2021.

I am not a PR yet but I am pretty familiar with the citizenship application because my partner applied for it just a couple of months ago.

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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 24th July 2018, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayptl View Post
Hi guys anyone help me I am in doubt about whether I am eligible for citizenship or not?

timeline
First arrived ; 08/08/2008
Absense period: 17/11/2012 to 07/12/2014
Later arrived: 08/12/2014
PR granted: 25/05/2017

As per checking online browser of residency checker I am eligible for citizenship now..but it mentiones last 4 yr stays immedietly..
and 2nd para it mentions past 4 year...

So confused??

seek guide from senior expat.
jayptl, I have tried to reply to your private message but your inbox is full and you can't receive my answer.

Your stay between 2008 and 2012 counts towards your residency requirements as long as you were here on a valid visa and didn't become an unlawful resident at any point.

You had already been an Australian resident for 4 years by the time you left in 2012. Your residency did not get reset because of your absence. Those 4 years still count.

So, if you calculate it right now, you meet all the conditions:
1. You have been a permanent resident for more than one year (you became a PR in May 2017).
2. You have not been away for more than 90 days in the last year (no absence between 24 July 2017 and 24 July 2018).
3. You have not been away for more than one year in the last four (count 4 years back from today and you get to 24 July 2014. You were away from 24 July 2014 to 7 Dec 2014 which is less than 5 months).
4. You have been an Australian resident for over 4 years in total (more than 4 between 2008 and 2012 plus another 3 and a half from December 2014 to July 2018 - that's over 7 and a half residency years in total).

Your initial residency date is 08/08/2008. That's why the calculator tells you that you are eligible for citizenship.

Go ahead and apply for it.

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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 24th July 2018, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by kiwifruit View Post
jayptl, I have tried to reply to your private message but your inbox is full and you can't receive my answer.

Your stay between 2008 and 2012 counts towards your residency requirements as long as you were here on a valid visa and didn't become an unlawful resident at any point.

You had already been an Australian resident for 4 years by the time you left in 2012. Your residency did not get reset because of your absence. Those 4 years still count.

So, if you calculate it right now, you meet all the conditions:
1. You have been a permanent resident for more than one year (you became a PR in May 2017).
2. You have not been away for more than 90 days in the last year (no absence between 24 July 2017 and 24 July 2018).
3. You have not been away for more than one year in the last four (count 4 years back from today and you get to 24 July 2014. You were away from 24 July 2014 to 7 Dec 2014 which is less than 5 months).
4. You have been an Australian resident for over 4 years in total (more than 4 between 2008 and 2012 plus another 3 and a half from December 2014 to July 2018 - that's over 7 and a half residency years in total).

Your initial residency date is 08/08/2008. That's why the calculator tells you that you are eligible for citizenship.

Go ahead and apply for it.
I have my doubts
I would bet on Dec 2018

Let @Kaju comment

Cheers

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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 24th July 2018, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by newbienz View Post
I have my doubts
I would bet on Dec 2018

Let @Kaju comment

Cheers
Kiwifruit is correct. You would be correct if jayptl had arrived for the first time on 8/12/2014.

In this situation, the initial entry several years ago is a deciding factor on when the 4 year period starts.

It's an awkward situation, and confusion is widespread.

If you've already been legally in Australia before the 4 years preceding the application date, then it's just what has happened in those 4 years that matters - and if you were away for less than a year in the 4 years you're deemed to have been in Australia for that period.

However this only applies if you arrived before the 4 year date. If you first arrived less than 4 years ago, you can't say you've been here more than 3 years out of the last 4, as you have to be here first before you can have an absence! In that situation, the 4 years starts from the date of arrival.

Section 22(1A) of the Citizenship Act allows for absences from Australia of up to 12 months within the 4 years immediately before applying for citizenship. A period of time cannot be counted as an absence from Australia unless the person has already been present in Australia. This means that a person does not meet the residence requirement if they have 3 years continuous presence in Australia (with the last 12 months as a permanent resident) unless they were previously in Australia.

Calculation of the 4-year lawful residence period when a person has been absent from Australia on the day 4 years immediately before applying

If a person’s first arrival in Australia is less than 4 years before they apply for citizenship, they cannot meet the general residence requirement, even if they spend 3 years continuously in Australia.

The start date of the 4-year lawful residence period is usually the date 4 years immediately before they lodge their application. However, if the person has not made their first entry into Australia, they need to wait at least 4 years after their first entry to meet this requirement.

Where a person was outside Australia on the day 4 years immediately before applying, but had previously been in Australia, they may still use the day 4 years immediately before applying as a start date, providing that on that day they held visa which was granted in Australia, or which was granted offshore and the person had entered Australia on that visa. If these conditions are met, then the person may use the full 4 year period immediately before applying towards meeting the general residence requirement.


Last edited by kaju; 24th July 2018 at 02:53 PM.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 24th July 2018, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kaju View Post
Kiwifruit is correct. You would be correct if jayptl had arrived for the first time on 8/12/2014.

In this situation, the initial entry several years ago is a deciding factor on when the 4 year period starts.

It's an awkward situation, and confusion is widespread.

If you've already been legally in Australia before the 4 years preceding the application date, then it's just what has happened in those 4 years that matters - and if you were away for less than a year in the 4 years you're deemed to have been in Australia for that period.

However this only applies if you arrived before the 4 year date. If you first arrived less than 4 years ago, you can't say you've been here more than 3 years out of the last 4, as you have to be here first before you can have an absence! In that situation, the 4 years starts from the date of arrival.

Section 22(1A) of the Citizenship Act allows for absences from Australia of up to 12 months within the 4 years immediately before applying for citizenship. A period of time cannot be counted as an absence from Australia unless the person has already been present in Australia. This means that a person does not meet the residence requirement if they have 3 years continuous presence in Australia (with the last 12 months as a permanent resident) unless they were previously in Australia.

Calculation of the 4-year lawful residence period when a person has been absent from Australia on the day 4 years immediately before applying

If a personís first arrival in Australia is less than 4 years before they apply for citizenship, they cannot meet the general residence requirement, even if they spend 3 years continuously in Australia.

The start date of the 4-year lawful residence period is usually the date 4 years immediately before they lodge their application. However, if the person has not made their first entry into Australia, they need to wait at least 4 years after their first entry to meet this requirement.

Where a person was outside Australia on the day 4 years immediately before applying, but had previously been in Australia, they may still use the day 4 years immediately before applying as a start date, providing that on that day they held visa which was granted in Australia, or which was granted offshore and the person had entered Australia on that visa. If these conditions are met, then the person may use the full 4 year period immediately before applying towards meeting the general residence requirement.
I stand corrected

Cheers

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Old 24th July 2018, 08:49 PM
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Where a person was outside Australia on the day 4 years immediately before applying, but had previously been in Australia, they may still use the day 4 years immediately before applying as a start date, providing that on that day they held visa which was granted in Australia, or which was granted offshore and the person had entered Australia on that visa. If these conditions are met, then the person may use the full 4 year period immediately before applying towards meeting the general residence requirement.
Thanks Kaju for your extensive clarification.

The problem in this case, which I found via private message, is that jayptl had his visa cancelled at the end of 2012. If he applied for citizenship today he would need to have held a visa back in July 2014, which he did not. I assumed that his previous visa (the one that allowed him to stay here between 2008 and 2012) was still valid during his absence, but that is not the case. So he would not satisfy this requirement: "providing that on that day they held visa which was granted in Australia, or which was granted offshore and the person had entered Australia on that visa".

I tried the online calculator myself and it has one big flaw. It asks for the date you entered Australia lawfully but does not ask if your visa ended at any point. It assumes that your visa remained valid until you were granted PR. That's why it tells him that he's eligible now.

So, in this particular case, I have to agree with NB.

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Old 25th July 2018, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwifruit View Post
Thanks Kaju for your extensive clarification.

The problem in this case, which I found via private message, is that jayptl had his visa cancelled at the end of 2012. If he applied for citizenship today he would need to have held a visa back in July 2014, which he did not. I assumed that his previous visa (the one that allowed him to stay here between 2008 and 2012) was still valid during his absence, but that is not the case. So he would not satisfy this requirement: "providing that on that day they held visa which was granted in Australia, or which was granted offshore and the person had entered Australia on that visa".

I tried the online calculator myself and it has one big flaw. It asks for the date you entered Australia lawfully but does not ask if your visa ended at any point. It assumes that your visa remained valid until you were granted PR. That's why it tells him that he's eligible now.

So, in this particular case, I have to agree with NB.
So I stand not corrected ?

What’s the final status @kaju?

Cheers

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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 25th July 2018, 01:45 AM
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Hi guys, in my particular case its really difficult to judge whether I am eligible or not??

I tried consult lot of MARA agent, but nobody tells me perfect answer with confidently about my eligibility.

Whether I was previlys between 2008 to 2012 I was legal on visa, but after cancellation I was not overstayed as chat with kiwifruit. It is still confusing or may be I am eligible on dec 2018. May be clock starts from 2014..

In residence calc. They put only lawful residence date but didnt mention from to To?? so in that case I cant decide what does it mean lawful residence date its from 2008 or from Dec 2014

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Old 25th July 2018, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jayptl View Post
Hi guys, in my particular case its really difficult to judge whether I am eligible or not??

I tried consult lot of MARA agent, but nobody tells me perfect answer with confidently about my eligibility.

Whether I was previlys between 2008 to 2012 I was legal on visa, but after cancellation I was not overstayed as chat with kiwifruit. It is still confusing or may be I am eligible on dec 2018. May be clock starts from 2014..

In residence calc. They put only lawful residence date but didnt mention from to To?? so in that case I cant decide what does it mean lawful residence date its from 2008 or from Dec 2014
If i were in your shoes I would apply for the citizenship right away
Maximum, if I am not eligible I lose $285

But if I was eligible and did not apply, and the rules change to 4 years minimum on PR, then I wil be kicking myself forever
Do recheck if there any repurcussions for a wrong application other then forfieture of Visa fees

Cheers

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Last edited by NB; 25th July 2018 at 01:53 AM.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 25th July 2018, 01:57 AM
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Lightbulb jayptl

As per your suggestion

I am eligible?? on Section 22(1A)?

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