Tell me about Thailand

[owenjones]

I've never heard that one before.
I'll have to try to remember it.

Owen.

[leoman20]

I find the same
I loved thailand when I first arrived 3 years ago (not resident but frequent trips)

smiles are superficial and the population apart from the elite is struggling financially.
it is not as safe as australia.camping is not possible in thailand -you just get things stolen or worse.
tourists are shot for their money on some of the islands if out late on beaches.
homicides occur every second week in pataya between rival mafia groups controlling protection rackets
the rule of law is problematic.foreigners generally get worse end of the stick in any dispute despite tourist police.
my brother has himself to blame for being rolled 3 times in 6 months right in centre of busy bangkok.he stayed out late was drunk and on his own but his drinks were spiked while playing pool.

corruption is rife in any beaurocracy that is not under publc scrutiny.
on spot fines (higher than official fines)from police who must supplement their low income.
amphetamines use and alcohol excess is rampant .car accidents are high with not wearing seatbelts ,and no helmets on bikes ,high speed driving not just youngsters and lots of traffic.police crack down on safety from time to time-exceptionally.
domestic violence is common,abandoned wives and children,loan sharks ripping off poor borrowers,gambling card games for money and lottery tickets are magical thinking of locals who feel powerless but just impoversih them.

things are cheap but nasty=often break in 6 months have to buy same again.
people are unreliable unhelpful apart from single syllable answers-they dont have a customer focus (with a few exceptions) the education system does not encourage independent thought or questioning and while english is taught it is not taken seriously by the governement.Indian tourists in thailand speak better english .
the elite prefers the population to be traditional unquestioning passive and a slave to them. the various coups are exactly about being traditional or progressive.
the next generation of university educated people will change thailand (if they stay) but it is 15 years away yet.

[leoman20]

A thai girlfriend is an asset provided you can find one who is aware alert good english and without her own (understandably) victim mentality.

[oddball]

Originally Posted by KhwaamLap

There is an instrument called a USUFRUCT. This is a very old law (originating from the Romans), that Thailand adopted from the west. It is pretty useful and works like this:

The owner of the land can sign over the land using the USUFRUCT. It is still owned by the original owner, but the USUFRUCTEE has full rights (except the ability to sell it) over the land. They can build, own the buildings, own any produce from said lad (Mangos etc) and treat it as their own land pretty much. The USUFRUCT can only be cancelled by both parties under agreement (they are registerd with the courts, so are legally binding) or by the death of the USUFRUCTEE - they are not inheritable, but children can also be added. This can bne betwelen man and wife etc.
This can be done free without any taxes etc if the USUFRUCT is not charged for (if the owner is a business, there is expectation of a charge for the USUFRUCT to inhibbit fraud - tax is payable then - though its low). There is real need for lawyers as it needs to be registered etc. There are companies (PM me and I'll give you the name of the person I am using - for more details) that do everything for you - the land registry dept always want to talk you into renting/leasing the property insead. Why? Because it generates tax and is revokable - your lawyer/agent will push all that aside as they know the law and your rights etc. The Agency costs between 10k and 20k on average - depending where in the country you are. Out of town areas and the boonies often do not have land regisrty offices or the land is not title deeded etc, this costs more as the travelling ibetween offices may be greater (may well be in different towns!) - this is why the price variance.

By the way - as the USUFRUCTEE, you can not be turned off the land (other than by the government - compulsory buying etc) - and can even kick the land owner off. It lasts until the last USUFRUCTEE dies. The owner can sell it, but the USUFRUCT goes with the purchase, so no change tot the USUFRUCTEE (and nobody wants to buy land with an open USUFRUCT on it - so if you do want to sell at some point, make the USUFRUCT cancellation a point of the sale).

Usufruct , originating from the Romans and , adopted by the Thais from the west and works like this !!!! Oh realy , maybe for the Thais , very very little works for the Falang in Thailand , Thailand is for the Thais and whatever they say at what ever time is the current ruling , believe very little of what you read and nothing you hear is a good rule to follow .Immigration laws made up by the government , dependant on which office you apply at on any given day , is decided by the man behind the counter , he truly believes he is the law , argue and you are out of luck . Property , buy a piece of land with your wife , you cannot , she is buying it with your money , she has little to none of her own , build a huge beautiful home on it and impress the village , for her , you are only the ATM that makes this possible , good FACE for her , she snared a good one . She says leave , you are gone with no recourse , want to live in a village where every-one hates you ? Not a wise thing to do , read about the several murders of late , just for the m oney , of very good people ? Thailand is a law unto itself , you will find it very difficult to 'Fit in' you are and always will be the stupid Falang with the ATM card , do not believe me ? Tour the bars and talk to those who will tell you "But she realy loved me ", Thais are amongst the biggest liars you will ever meet , and the endearing smile ? Use a mirror and see the other side of the face , should you not be convinced , read the account of the nicest guy in the world just arrived from England , head almost severed with a machete by his loving wifes brother , for his money . read it all on Thai-visa . Don't have to believe me though , just go at it and in most cases find out for youself , but please , no crying in your beer , many of us have heard it all before .

[Stravinsky]

Nice to see you back oddball

[KhwaamLap]

A little bitter there Oddball? Not sure if it was my wife you were suggesting in your little rant or the Ops. USUFRUCTs are a fact - erm, yes really. They are little known about, mostly becuase the Thai goverment doesn't want too much interest to be shown. They are used quite a lot in business and to protect Thai wives from their Thai husbands, who could abandon them with nothing in the past. This law will not be repealed any time soon as too many businesses rely on them. It has SFA to do with immigration or land ownership laws as at no point are you a land ower; you cn not use it as an asset of your own etc and is irrelevent to immigration. It is a legal framework that is used in most of the world to protect long term leasees. The usual way is that tghe land is owned by a ligitimate land owner - be it Government, Tghai citizen or company and the USUFRUCT is given (usually sold) to thwe occupier along with a lease agreement. This isn't a circumvention of one law against another, it was set up for the sole reason of protecting the interests of land users (most commonly farmers) from land owners who could benefit from land improvements or declare themselves owner of the farm's produce without it. As the USERFRUCTEE you are not the owner, so you are within the law in its entirity. They are not new, and certainly not brought in to service us Farrangs - they do exist are embedded in Thai law and open to use by us.

Many people, as you suggest, are stung by unscupulous partners of one sort or another. The standard 'beer-crying-fare' is he Farrang meet little Lek at his hotel, they fall for eachother (ignoring a forty year age gap) and farrang buys new buffalo for Lek's mum, new pick-up for dad and a town house for the two of them to love on in. Papers signed, Lek's four uncles turn up and Farrang is in the bar crying into his Beer Chang..... This will happen no matter what. People are blind and gullable, fact. So many of these people check their brains in at BKK airport and fall for the same thing, sure.

This is kinda the point though. If mr Farrang above had a USUFRUCT, then LEGALLY Lek could not have thrown him out. Sure, she'd still own the land, but she wouldn't get it until he was dead - and if he used his senses and put a third party on the USUFRUCT (like his young son from his first failed marriage back in Farrangland), then the kid would still hold it until he died. Kind of kills the trick if they can't sell the land for 60 years or so - and Mr Farrang is well past caring if he's dead already.

Having said all that - I do agree that there is more than the legalities here. Being in a tiny vilage where little Lek has turned them against you, isn't very nice. Of course, you could bugger off knowing that she can't sell the land anyway, so can't realise the benefit either. It is unlikely though that a little village would benefit from USUFRUCT as they require deedmms and legal land registration, many villages do not have deeded lands or legal registration, only local registration (on whic a USUFRUCT would be impossible without the extra cost of getting the land measured and deeded by the goverment). USUFRUCTs really come into their own if the land is in a town or city - also much harder for Lek to turn everyone against you in the middle of Bangkok.

The golden rule always applies - "Only spend what you can afford to walk away from" - USUFRUCTs just give you the ability to stop her ripping you off, you may never get the cash back either. So, be careful where you decide to live - I certainly wouldn't want to live close to her family anyway - I know my wife doesn't either, but I've got a good'n - like most of us (we're just not as vocal as the 'beer-cryers')

I wouldn't say Thais are the biggest liars in the world either, but I guess that was meant to be inflamatory.

...and just for your info...my wife owns a fair bit of land, comes from a military family, had been married to me for a decade and is a terrible liar (in that she might aswel hold up a plaque saying "I'm fibbing now!"), so not too many hits there then

[oddball]

Originally Posted by Stravinsky

Nice to see you back oddball

Thank you , it has been a while . Colin

[oddball]

No , not being bitter actualy , i have no particular axe to grind over Thailand , just putting out the red flags for the unsuspecting about things that happen in Thailand , who cannot seem to believe nor percieve that the 'Love birds'' are great actors and con artists . My father taught me not to loan anything unless i could accept the loss of whatever it was without getting my knickers in a knot , that way you lost the money and the friend .
I moved over to Cambodia where the people are much friendlier , with honest smiles that come readily with no ulterior motive , they have nothing to offer as in Thailand , but what they do offer comes willingly with no strings attached in the majority of cases . I co-own property with my wife , all legally documented by the village elders , the family rarely asks for nor expects anything , just that i be good to my wife , not in a monetary way , but kind and loyal .
As a side-bar , if you think the Thais are bad drivers , feel free to visit and experience the most inpatient , unskilled driving of a lifetime .

[Stravinsky]

Originally Posted by oddball

No , not being bitter actualy , i have no particular axe to grind over Thailand , just putting out the red flags for the unsuspecting about things that happen in Thailand , who cannot seem to believe nor percieve that the 'Love birds'' are great actors and con artists . My father taught me not to loan anything unless i could accept the loss of whatever it was without getting my knickers in a knot , that way you lost the money and the friend .
I moved over to Cambodia where the people are much friendlier , with honest smiles that come readily with no ulterior motive , they have nothing to offer as in Thailand , but what they do offer comes willingly with no strings attached in the majority of cases . I co-own property with my wife , all legally documented by the village elders , the family rarely asks for nor expects anything , just that i be good to my wife , not in a monetary way , but kind and loyal .
As a side-bar , if you think the Thais are bad drivers , feel free to visit and experience the most inpatient , unskilled driving of a lifetime .

are you in Cambodia now?

[oddball]

Yes i am in Cambodia at this time , lived here for two and a half years , but times they are a changing ! Apartment blocks , hotels you name it being constructed everywhere you look , but for whom ? The infrastructure here in Phnom Penh cannot support the current population that has exploded from village people moving in , mostly uneducated , untrained in anything worth while , just men with a moto happy with a dollar or two a day to feed themselves . Driving laws and signs totally ignored , are not aware even on which side of the street to drive( motivate) themselves , most sidewalks etc are plugged with them , you endanger your life to walk in the street . Housing for another 150,000 residents , so add about 5,000 more vehicles and there will be total mayhem . My wife and i are seriously considering moving out of here before that happens , tourists on the internet advising to give this city a miss , they refer to it these days as the 'Wild West' using motos instead of 6 shooters to run the unwary down .Was a good place to live when i first came here , se-la-vie !! Angor Wat , with all the millions spent by tourist , bumpy , pot holed dirt roads to drive on , outside of town the poor have swollen , living in hovels and poluting everything with thier garbage , still living in the jungle .