Thai Buddhist Monks

[Cer]

Originally Posted by A90

I was curious how long it would take for such a response.

It is one big "tamboon" circus.
I keep away from it and let my wife do her "business".
I am not religious and I look very critical at the things I see happening around me.

[Oneman]

Originally Posted by Dave O'Dottu

has anyone ever interacted with thai buddhist monks
do they really seem nice?
or do you sense something else?

Interesting question.
I followed the progress of a Thai man whom I have known for 5+ years as he became a monk, and then finished his duty and returned to normal life.
The man is my Thai language teacher, and we have been meeting for lessons 3-4 times every week, for over 5 years -- so I knew him quite well.

Short answer: His personality completely changed when he became a monk.
I went to visit him at his Wat in a different province.
Nothing prepared me for the change in his behavior.
He simply wasn't the same person as before.
It was something of a shock.

And, no, he was not particularly "nice".

After serving as a monk for a short time -- typical for most adult Thai men -- he returned to "civilian" life.
A few days after leaving the Wat, he and his wife came to visit me.
Even though his hair was still very short, and his eyebrows had not yet grown back, his personality had reverted to the same as before.

While he was a monk, did I sense "something else"?
Certainly did.
Monks in Thailand are taught that they are the image of Buddha.
In fact, the classifier word for monk in the Thai language is not "person", but, rather, "image", meaning "image of Buddha".

Bottom line, monks are not "themselves", because -- as long as they are wearing the yellow robes -- they are expected to personify the Buddha.

Hopes this helps to understand the situation.

-- Oneman

[Andrew Hicks]

Originally Posted by Oneman

Interesting question.
I followed the progress of a Thai man whom I have known for 5+ years as he became a monk, and then finished his duty and returned to normal life.
The man is my Thai language teacher, and we have been meeting for lessons 3-4 times every week, for over 5 years -- so I knew him quite well.

Short answer: His personality completely changed when he became a monk.
I went to visit him at his Wat in a different province.
Nothing prepared me for the change in his behavior.
He simply wasn't the same person as before.
It was something of a shock.

And, no, he was not particularly "nice".

After serving as a monk for a short time -- typical for most adult Thai men -- he returned to "civilian" life.
A few days after leaving the Wat, he and his wife came to visit me.
Even though his hair was still very short, and his eyebrows had not yet grown back, his personality had reverted to the same as before.

While he was a monk, did I sense "something else"?
Certainly did.
Monks in Thailand are taught that they are the image of Buddha.
In fact, the classifier word for monk in the Thai language is not "person", but, rather, "image", meaning "image of Buddha".

Bottom line, monks are not "themselves", because -- as long as they are wearing the yellow robes -- they are expected to personify the Buddha.

Hopes this helps to understand the situation.

-- Oneman

An interesting post.

I have sensed something similar with men I have known who have become monks. They are of course expected to be set apart from the laity and for example must have no contact with women. Perhaps that is what one sees in this situation, especially if accompanied by ones wife. Perhaps especially if there are other monks around, your old friend is just doing his best to keep up the appearance of being not of this world as is expected of him.

Andrew

[Song_Si]

just my personal experiences
I've had numerous fleeting interactions with monks, the year we were in Phuket we were between Big Buddha temple and Wat Chalong, maybe being Phuket with the high number of foreigners they were more comfortable and we'd often converse in a limited manner - ie my poor Thai v their poor English.
Year 2 we were in Sa Kaeo province south east of Bangkok, rural and monks less likely to enter into conversation with me, except one whose goal seemed to be to teach me one new phrase each time our paths crossed, temple was 2.5km from home so quite often. In that time been through a wedding, funerals, an ordination ceremony, various religious festivals - suppose I'd say I'm neutral, no reason whatsoever to dislike have never seen or experienced anything negative.
Our neighbour's brother was a long-term monk and sometimes turned up in his robes, lit a smoke and fell asleep in the hammock. Everyone deserves a day off!
My partner's mother was not always so flattering towards them, suggesting some joined up to avoid having to work, and sometimes simply waved them away when they came collecting money for whatever new temple extension (there is always one on the go it seems); different story if they wanted food, that was ok by her.
On a Mekong boat trip in Cambodia we were cornered (no escape) by two young monks each had an old 'learn English' book and had question after question, harmless fun.
Three weekends ago we were at the beach near Laem Sing and a few hundred m away we saw a wave of orange . . . a wave indeed as they all went swimming in the sea, still in their robes. Maybe they were visiting, not local, it was quite a sight seeing maybe 50 splashing and having a good time. Human after all!

[Bobr]

Religion can be an easy way to make a living. Still most Monks just like most Catholic priests are probably decent people. I've known one at my school 4 years and he is certainly a good man. I do wonder about them however every time I go to Pantip in Bangkok and see them wandering around in there.

[mikecwm]

Buddhist monks have conquered their ego - right?
While travelling somewhere north of Ayudhaya my Thai wife and I passed a huge statue of a sitting Buddha.
We stopped to get a couple of photos and I asked her why the local monastary (we were obviously in a poor farming area) would spend so much of the locals money building such a huge statue.
Her answer had me in stitches.
She said without having to think about it - that it depends on how important the head monk thinks he is.
Wow - there you go - the answer to Buddhism. Hard to get away from the old EGO aint it.

[Newforestcat]

There are two sects of Buddhism. Each sect's monks seek the same ultimate goal which is nothingness/Nirvana but by different means. The first are 'city' (คามวาสี kaa-ma-waa-see) monks, wearing bright orange robes. They are there to guide the secular Buddhist communities to the ultimate goal. They are, most of the times, the monks you see all over Thailand. The other group is called 'forest' (อรัญวาสี a-run-ya-waa-see) monks who wear dark orange almost brown robes dyed by using natural pigment (s) easily found in the wild. They tend to be self-sufficient by living off the land, growing and eating organically grown fruits and veg and no meat. Also, they seek the ultimate goal within themselves by themselves. They do guide people who come to them to seek the ultimate goal, too. But they focus more on the practical stuff such as meditation than just preaching.

I was born a Buddhist, but believe in religious pluralism. I think the core of each religion is to promote morality to keep peace in society, on that basis, they are all good to me. I can see why the carrot and stick method has been used repeatedly through history. A lot of people are better at re-acting than acting, convince them that there is another world that is pure, perfect and peaceful such as heaven, they might start being nicer to one another, they might give you all the family silver to secure their reservations to heaven, etc.

I do feel that Thailand's Buddhism is getting too commercial, that there are some very good monks and that sadly there are also some sub-standard monks and criminals who are religious parasites. I don't go to temples that promote donations as tickets to heaven and hint that the more you give, the better you are. I am saddened by poor people taking out loans big enough to buy a secondhand car for each son to enter the monkhood for a few weeks and then spend a huge part of their lives paying off the debts just to get to heaven and to keep up with the Joneses. Why suffer in this life hoping your next is better through briberies? The Buddhist ultimate goal is to have no more life afterdeath just nothingness, no pain, no happiness just ultimate peace not heaven.

I don't tend to give money directly to religious establishments except to fix a church's leaking or missing roof due to metal theives, etc. I don't use religion, wealth, or race as a criteria for anything. I always try to give money directly to the people who need it.

IMHO, If you seek Nirvana or heaven, do it yourself. If you want to give away money, give it to those who promote and strive for sustainability so your money lasts longer. I do what I say LOL.

To answer the question,

good monks do not tend to come out to recruit you or start with asking for donations. They should be wise and understanding enough to know that when you seek them, you are ready. I find my experiences with the 'forest' sect to be more benefitial to my intelligence and my soul. I prefer religions with no added extras but do understand that religions' longivity depends a lot on bricks and mortar and the preachers inside them who often cannot resist adapting/ modifying what they preach, just to serve their religions or themselves.

[Newforestcat]

Originally Posted by Song_Si

just my personal experiences
I've had numerous fleeting interactions with monks, the year we were in Phuket we were between Big Buddha temple and Wat Chalong, maybe being Phuket with the high number of foreigners they were more comfortable and we'd often converse in a limited manner - ie my poor Thai v their poor English.
Year 2 we were in Sa Kaeo province south east of Bangkok, rural and monks less likely to enter into conversation with me, except one whose goal seemed to be to teach me one new phrase each time our paths crossed, temple was 2.5km from home so quite often. In that time been through a wedding, funerals, an ordination ceremony, various religious festivals - suppose I'd say I'm neutral, no reason whatsoever to dislike have never seen or experienced anything negative.
Our neighbour's brother was a long-term monk and sometimes turned up in his robes, lit a smoke and fell asleep in the hammock. Everyone deserves a day off!
My partner's mother was not always so flattering towards them, suggesting some joined up to avoid having to work, and sometimes simply waved them away when they came collecting money for whatever new temple extension (there is always one on the go it seems); different story if they wanted food, that was ok by her.
On a Mekong boat trip in Cambodia we were cornered (no escape) by two young monks each had an old 'learn English' book and had question after question, harmless fun.
Three weekends ago we were at the beach near Laem Sing and a few hundred m away we saw a wave of orange . . . a wave indeed as they all went swimming in the sea, still in their robes. Maybe they were visiting, not local, it was quite a sight seeing maybe 50 splashing and having a good time. Human after all!

Well, I have been told they have nothing under the robes. Any Scottish or Burmese men want to ascertain that for us? LOL

But what a sight! I suppose, from memory, Chantaburi is a bit more hot and humid than the north where I am.

[Newforestcat]

Originally Posted by mikecwm

Buddhist monks have conquered their ego - right?
While travelling somewhere north of Ayudhaya my Thai wife and I passed a huge statue of a sitting Buddha.
We stopped to get a couple of photos and I asked her why the local monastary (we were obviously in a poor farming area) would spend so much of the locals money building such a huge statue.
Her answer had me in stitches.
She said without having to think about it - that it depends on how important the head monk thinks he is.
Wow - there you go - the answer to Buddhism. Hard to get away from the old EGO aint it.

It is often all about saving face and keeping up with the Shinawatras! LOL

[Song_Si]

^^ just for you; poor quality pics, swimming at Paknam Khaem Nu on the Chanthaburi coast, April 2011



and an older one, on a visit to Laem Sing May 2010 we went to the Oasis Dolphin show, and there were two busloads of young men there, they were from Chiang Rai, staying at a nearby temple. There is an option to get in and swim with the dolphins, but maybe the 400 baht fee was too much for them (as it was for us)