Foreigner in Politics?

[A90]

Say you speak the language, have lived in the country for some time, married a Thai, etc. How would the locals take to a foreigner becoming politicaly active in their country? From what I have read and continue to research my assumption is that they would probaly be rather standoffish towards the foreign opinion. (If not completely enraged.) So to those who do or have lived in Thailand how would the locals act?

[frogblogger]

Depends what you mean by politically active. It's hardly a regular occurrence (expat political interest), given that the great majority of farangs don't have anything like enough ability in spoken Thai to have a real debate on the issues, and most Thais who do speak English can't really cope with complicated discussions.

Many Thais would be surprised at such interest - I spent a lot of time following and photographing the redshirt demos over a couple of years, usually the only farang present, and reactions spanned from suspicion (was I some kind of government or PAD yellowshirt spy), to surprise that any farang was interested in Thai politics, to a real desire to find out what a farang thinks about Thai issues, clearly in search of sympathy and understanding. Many went out of their way to show that they weren't political pawns with simplistic ideas, being manipulated by their leaders.

Funnily enough, my perception was that the redshirts as a whole had a more complex vision of the problems of Thai society than the yellowshirt equivalent. Ironic, given the accusation from the latter that the redshirts were simple, uneducated Isaan peasants, blindly following Thaksin.

Of course their reaction (to your hypothetical political involvement) depends on your approach. Blunder in with patronising 'the West knows best' comments, and the Thais will soon retreat into their shells. Outright criticism, although it is becoming more acceptable, remains quite an art form in Thailand. Not easy to get away with, even for a Thai. When farangs do it it's just dismissed as part of our general disrespectful, culturally inferior attitude. The powerful instinct to maintain face and find compromise makes an uneasy handmaiden to revolution and criticism - something that the powers-that-be have been able to depend on to retain control over the people without too much violence.

Still, that said, I was astounded during said demos at the outspoken comments about certain 'institutions' that previously were beyond criticism in Thailand - and that remain beyond criticism by law too. There were even some highly insulting criticisms of said institutions that would merit lengthy jail terms were they overheard by the wrong people. Times are a-changing.

[Cer]

Stay out of it.
In our home countries it is already a snake pit !

[A90]

Originally Posted by frogblogger

Depends what you mean by politically active. It's hardly a regular occurrence (expat political interest), given that the great majority of farangs don't have anything like enough ability in spoken Thai to have a real debate on the issues, and most Thais who do speak English can't really cope with complicated discussions.

Many Thais would be surprised at such interest - I spent a lot of time following and photographing the redshirt demos over a couple of years, usually the only farang present, and reactions spanned from suspicion (was I some kind of government or PAD yellowshirt spy), to surprise that any farang was interested in Thai politics, to a real desire to find out what a farang thinks about Thai issues, clearly in search of sympathy and understanding. Many went out of their way to show that they weren't political pawns with simplistic ideas, being manipulated by their leaders.

Funnily enough, my perception was that the redshirts as a whole had a more complex vision of the problems of Thai society than the yellowshirt equivalent. Ironic, given the accusation from the latter that the redshirts were simple, uneducated Isaan peasants, blindly following Thaksin.

Of course their reaction (to your hypothetical political involvement) depends on your approach. Blunder in with patronising 'the West knows best' comments, and the Thais will soon retreat into their shells. Outright criticism, although it is becoming more acceptable, remains quite an art form in Thailand. Not easy to get away with, even for a Thai. When farangs do it it's just dismissed as part of our general disrespectful, culturally inferior attitude. The powerful instinct to maintain face and find compromise makes an uneasy handmaiden to revolution and criticism - something that the powers-that-be have been able to depend on to retain control over the people without too much violence.

Still, that said, I was astounded during said demos at the outspoken comments about certain 'institutions' that previously were beyond criticism in Thailand - and that remain beyond criticism by law too. There were even some highly insulting criticisms of said institutions that would merit lengthy jail terms were they overheard by the wrong people. Times are a-changing.

That is interesting to hear. Wht if the political view you are proposing happens to not be pro-Western, but actualy Thai nationalistic.

[A90]

Originally Posted by Cer

Stay out of it.
In our home countries it is already a snake pit !

Our home countries are a mess polticaly but, I cannot function without politics.

(One of the by products of having English blood I assume.) (sarcasm)

[frogblogger]

Originally Posted by A90

That is interesting to hear. Wht if the political view you are proposing happens to not be pro-Western, but actualy Thai nationalistic.

That's obviously in your favour, but there are plenty of different concepts of what Thai nationalism means across the Thai political spectrum! Royalist, democratic, protectionist, inclusive... or any combination of these, and more.

If you can demonstrate a good knowledge of Thailand, its culture and people, then most welcome calmly and respectfully expressed political views, whatever the source. They find it surprising from Westerners because the stereotype farang is seen as mainly being interested in more 'pleasurable' activities. That stereotype should be forgiven, it's not as if the vast bulk of the 60 mill. Thai population has any contact whatsoever with farangs, and of those that do, only a small percentage have a little English. Plus a 'minority' give the rest of us a bad name, and that's what they read about in the Thai tabloids, and see in news soundbites.

[A90]

Originally Posted by frogblogger

That's obviously in your favour, but there are plenty of different concepts of what Thai nationalism means across the Thai political spectrum! Royalist, democratic, protectionist, inclusive... or any combination of these, and more.

If you can demonstrate a good knowledge of Thailand, its culture and people, then most welcome calmly and respectfully expressed political views, whatever the source. They find it surprising from Westerners because the stereotype farang is seen as mainly being interested in more 'pleasurable' activities. That stereotype should be forgiven, it's not as if the vast bulk of the 60 mill. Thai population has any contact whatsoever with farangs, and of those that do, only a small percentage have a little English. Plus a 'minority' give the rest of us a bad name, and that's what they read about in the Thai tabloids, and see in news soundbites.

Thanks for the info frogblogger. It is nice to know that if I decide to stay there I can at least participate in the local politics without getting immediatly shunned away for being a foreigner.

[Serendipity2]

Originally Posted by A90

Say you speak the language, have lived in the country for some time, married a Thai, etc. How would the locals take to a foreigner becoming politicaly active in their country? From what I have read and continue to research my assumption is that they would probaly be rather standoffish towards the foreign opinion. (If not completely enraged.) So to those who do or have lived in Thailand how would the locals act?

A90,

I don't think farangs are all that highly respected - nor, frankly, wanted in Thailand. I think most Thai's view of farangs is - visit, enjoy the scenery, spend your here money here and then go home! Some will probably be amused that a farang wants to get involved in Thai politics but most won't. Which "side" will you root for or represent? In politics there is ALWAYS another side. Which ever side you choose you'll not win any popularity contest whichever you do choose. We are best served as guests to mind our own business - even though we think we're the cat's meow. I don't think we are nor do the Thais. Just my humble opinion!

Serendipity2

[frogblogger]

Well yes, but my experience of involvement in the demos suggests that there's more to it... They mostly think the farangs are in LOS for wine, women and song (and they're not exactly mistaken in many cases), and so they tend not to respect that particular group too much. But if you show genuine interest in Thai affairs, not with an interfering, 'we Westerners know best' attitude, they respond really well - they very much want to explain to us/the rest of the world what they think and believe on topics such as democracy, freedom of speech, corruption in politics etc. Even on certain hush hush, taboo subjects too.

[Serendipity2]

Originally Posted by frogblogger

Well yes, but my experience of involvement in the demos suggests that there's more to it... They mostly think the farangs are in LOS for wine, women and song (and they're not exactly mistaken in many cases), and so they tend not to respect that particular group too much. But if you show genuine interest in Thai affairs, not with an interfering, 'we Westerners know best' attitude, they respond really well - they very much want to explain to us/the rest of the world what they think and believe on topics such as democracy, freedom of speech, corruption in politics etc. Even on certain hush hush, taboo subjects too.

frogblogger,

You've a lot more "boots on the ground" experience that most - including myself - so I suspect you're right in most cases. That said, I think 'most' Thais aren't really that enthralled with farangs in general and while pretty easy going for the most part I think that average Thai thinks we're self indulgent and boorish - often demonstrated by our behaviour. Some is out of ignorance on our part. Still, the average Thai has minimal contact with farangs and of those who do some like us and others just tolerate us. So long as we're genuinely inquisitive in Thai culture, politics etc I think they don't mind but I think they would mind if we become too full of ourselves. Since our cultures are so different - nearly the antithesis of one another - we can offend when we don't even know it. For example, merely sitting on a table [rather than politely in a chair] or making any reference to the King or members of the royal household, other than in a most complimentary manner would be an unforgivable breach. I'm sure there are a thousand ways we don't even realize we do that can offend. Thankfully most Thais are pretty nice but it reminds me of the famous Brit line about the Americans during WWII. "The Yanks are overpaid, oversexed and over here."