38 years and lost everyting

[bmeade8]

I recently talked to one man online about how Thais think about us. I said they would be happy to get our money every month and send us home if they could and he said he chooses Thai morality over western any day.
I have been here 14 years and he i'm not sure maybe3-4. He said his friends say im wrong and am just bitter and i said i just don't lie to my self about how it is here. which leads me to my friend.

He was here 38-39 years i knew him for 6y and he was one of the most understanding person about Real Thai culture that i have met to date. why do i say Real Thai culture, well he knew about the bar life but most important he knew about everyday life and it's ins and outs. He would not just be able to tell what a person would do but explain why in very simple but completly understandable terms. He taught be many thing. Including how to divorce without losing anything. which i did and am happier for it. because of him i learned about face how to give it and how to make someone lose it without dieing for it. I learned how to live here and be happy when before i always felt i must protect myself. So to me he was a great guy, he loved Thailand he respected Thailand but most of all he knew Thailand. So when chatting with this other man and he said some thing it reminded me of my friend. Not as i remember him, but as he became in the end. you see after 39y and all his understanding he forgot the rules.
Rules
1. we are GUESTS here and always will be. I get reminded of that everyday if i want it or not.
2.Thai loc Thai means Thai choose"love" Thai every time, means we are on the out if it comes down to it.
3. You will never be Thai or be acepted as Thai no matter how much you think you are

So does this make me bitter? No, but it does help me to understand my place. My friend forgot his after 39y. he ended up old broke and sent home with his tail between his legs. So to all you who think you are to smart to ever get taken or fall prey to someone think about this story and remember it comes to all of us sooner or later if you stay somewhere your not wanted.

Yes I am going to stay but I also will not confuse someone being nice to me as me being seen as an equal. Here you are not equal and we will never be equal that is just how it is. if you can live with that then stay and find some happiness like me, if not lie to yourself and sooner or later you will get taken.


Sad But true.

Ok tear in to me im ready.

[frogblogger]

Some truth there of course, but the point I was trying to get across to you is that you don't (or shouldn't) create stereotype views from anecdotal, individual accounts. I don't care if your friend lived there for 50 years! - if he lost everything then he clearly hadn't taken certain precautions for a start. So if I remind you of him, then you either haven't got a clue, or haven't properly read what I have written earlier!

And secondly, as someone else told you in the other thread, for every unscrupulous Thai woman, you can find a manipulative, cold-hearted Frenchwoman, Australian, American, Pole, Ghanaian, you name it. That's life! People are being ripped off everywhere - the naive and gullible are easy prey for the less scrupulous, it's self-evident.

I cited examples of people who had been in Thailand longer than you, and remain perfectly content, just to show that your stereotype view can be proved wrong. Those concerned are careful, intelligent, streetwise folk - remember that before getting burnt, you have to give the Thais more than you are prepared to throw away without a second thought. If you don't, then nothing can hurt you. If you do, then more fool you.

Once again, Thailand is a country with no health safety net, no minimum wage. In Thailand it's all about survival through cooperation (blood family first). So any farang expecting to be looked after when he has no resources left is going to be going home at double quick speed at some point, unless he is very lucky with his partner and her family.

I have bought no Thai home, buffaloes or anything else. My previous assets are protected by a prenuptial agreement. If we divorce one day, she gets nothing unless I choose to give her something. I have property and an income in Europe - I retired back in 1994, before I was even close to my 40s. A lifelong healthplan. It's that simple.

Of course we are guests in Thailand. Of course we are not accepted as fellow nationals. But that applies to expats in virtually every single country in the world with a marked history and culture. Who cares? I don't, because I don't expect or need it in the first place. So what? I've been a guest in every single place I lived. Fine by me - I don't live there in order to be accepted as one of them - that would be plain stupid. I choose to live there for other reasons. If by doing so most accept me for what I am, all well and good. Those that don't, I steer clear of. I do my best to fit in unobtrusively, to not offend. I was a Theravada Buddhism adherent many moons ago back in the UK, making some good Thai friends along the way, so I have a considerable affinity with, and understanding of the philosophy involved. As someone in Thailand remarked to me a couple of weeks back, I'm one of those very rare farangs that simply goes unnoticed, fits in.

So any comparisons with your friend "who lost everything" is just plain daft. The trick is to prepare for every eventuality, and that is what I have done throughout a quarter of a century as an expat. Thai rak Thai? Sure, it's only natural. There are so many opinionated, loud, superior-acting farangs in the country - even expats - that I can hardly blame them. But it can be worked around, with a little subtlety and intelligence. That's the trick...

[bmeade8]

Originally Posted by frogblogger

Some truth there of course, but the point I was trying to get across to you is that you don't (or shouldn't) create stereotype views from anecdotal, individual accounts. I don't care if your friend lived there for 50 years! - if he lost everything then he clearly hadn't taken certain precautions for a start. So if I remind you of him, then you either haven't got a clue, or haven't properly read what I have written earlier!

And secondly, as someone else told you in the other thread, for every unscrupulous Thai woman, you can find a manipulative, cold-hearted Frenchwoman, Australian, American, Pole, Ghanaian, you name it. That's life! People are being ripped off everywhere - the naive and gullible are easy prey for the less scrupulous, it's self-evident.

I cited examples of people who had been in Thailand longer than you, and remain perfectly content, just to show that your stereotype view can be proved wrong. Those concerned are careful, intelligent, streetwise folk - remember that before getting burnt, you have to give the Thais more than you are prepared to throw away without a second thought. If you don't, then nothing can hurt you. If you do, then more fool you.

Once again, Thailand is a country with no health safety net, no minimum wage. In Thailand it's all about survival through cooperation (blood family first). So any farang expecting to be looked after when he has no resources left is going to be going home at double quick speed at some point, unless he is very lucky with his partner and her family.

I have bought no Thai home, buffaloes or anything else. My previous assets are protected by a prenuptial agreement. If we divorce one day, she gets nothing unless I choose to give her something. I have property and an income in Europe - I retired back in 1994, before I was even close to my 40s. A lifelong healthplan. It's that simple.

Of course we are guests in Thailand. Of course we are not accepted as fellow nationals. But that applies to expats in virtually every single country in the world with a marked history and culture. Who cares? I don't, because I don't expect or need it in the first place. So what? I've been a guest in every single place I lived. Fine by me - I don't live there in order to be accepted as one of them - that would be plain stupid. I choose to live there for other reasons. If by doing so most accept me for what I am, all well and good. Those that don't, I steer clear of. I do my best to fit in unobtrusively, to not offend. I was a Theravada Buddhism adherent many moons ago back in the UK, making some good Thai friends along the way, so I have a considerable affinity with, and understanding of the philosophy involved. As someone in Thailand remarked to me a couple of weeks back, I'm one of those very rare farangs that simply goes unnoticed, fits in.

So any comparisons with your friend "who lost everything" is just plain daft. The trick is to prepare for every eventuality, and that is what I have done throughout a quarter of a century as an expat. Thai rak Thai? Sure, it's only natural. There are so many opinionated, loud, superior-acting farangs in the country - even expats - that I can hardly blame them. But it can be worked around, with a little subtlety and intelligence. That's the trick...

You talk talk talk but you fail to understand one thing Its the culture not a stereotype, why can't you seem to understand that?

"remember that before getting burnt, you have to give the Thais more than you are prepared to throw away without a second thought. If you don't, then nothing can hurt you. If you do, then more fool you. "you make my point perfectly with that statement. you can't be free if you are a second class cit who is always living day to day carful not to ever buy something you can't walk away from right now. wow what a life you have, and this is what i mean they treat us like dogs. no home and don't care enough to let us buy our own be cause we have to live how they say or not at all. Man you need to take your foot out of your mouth and take a good look around.
So you must not care about a stable home for your self or for those who might have children. what do you do here drink beer all day and rent in case you have to run.
No i've seen people like you. they come and go. Bar guys who offer advise about things and then one day your gone come to find out you were working black and the police are after you or if your a predator you might bang some under age girl. who cares piont is you come you talk and you disapear. off to the next country to see what havoc you might reap.

But it can be worked around, with a little subtlety and intelligence. That's the trick...[/QUOTE]" Boy you really think so. you a bigger fool that i thought. that can never be worked around it, it must be accepted and nothing else. having done work for the tourist police showed me that.
yea it's clear now you really believe you know these people. well good luck i hope it all works out for you.

Ps I showed you piece to some of my thai friends here and they laughed at what you wrote. Well not all of them. the others think you have your head in the sand. I just think you think you know more than you really do.

"I was a Theravada Buddhism adherent many moons ago back in the UK, making some good Thai friends along the way, so I have a considerable affinity with, and understanding of the philosophy involved."
Yes all is good when your their pet its just when you don't do or say or think as they want the that problem begins. Of course this is how they treat their slaves also.
Do what they want Good Good Good don't do it Bad bad bad. now this you might say is normal in all countries and i would say yes your right but here it is in everything all day long.
Look you go on doing what works for you.

the first question you posed was about thai treating us dif. and i still say 100% yes they do.

Do you even know what farang means? I don't think so. if you did you might understand better. Hint it isn't nice. it is a name you would give to something you don't like. go ask you fiends see if they know. if not go ask a 50-60y old thai women what it means. she might tell you, but don't hold your breath.

[frogblogger]

All your rants demonstrate is a lack of insight. You do NOT have a private line to absolute truth about everything Thai, no matter what you might think.

Your feeble attempt at psychoanalysing me, pigeon-holing me as drinking all day, not caring about stability, renting in case I have to run, working black, police after me, disappearing to wreak havoc in another country, or "banging under-age girls" is about the most moronic thing I've read here, not to mention worthy of getting yourself banned from the forum for insulting behaviour in one hit. You're on a final warning for that outburst, which shows you in your true colours.

I'm happily married, with a Thai daughter, of independent means, very rarely drink anything. I hardly ever go to bars, and spend most of my time with Thais when I'm in LOS. So sorry to disappoint you, but the above utter nonsense from you just demonstrates how little comprehension you have of what makes people tick.

One more post along those lines, flaming a fellow member, and you will receive the appropriate infraction.

[Serendipity2]

Originally Posted by frogblogger

Some truth there of course, but the point I was trying to get across to you is that you don't (or shouldn't) create stereotype views from anecdotal, individual accounts. I don't care if your friend lived there for 50 years! - if he lost everything then he clearly hadn't taken certain precautions for a start. So if I remind you of him, then you either haven't got a clue, or haven't properly read what I have written earlier!

And secondly, as someone else told you in the other thread, for every unscrupulous Thai woman, you can find a manipulative, cold-hearted Frenchwoman, Australian, American, Pole, Ghanaian, you name it. That's life! People are being ripped off everywhere - the naive and gullible are easy prey for the less scrupulous, it's self-evident.

I cited examples of people who had been in Thailand longer than you, and remain perfectly content, just to show that your stereotype view can be proved wrong. Those concerned are careful, intelligent, streetwise folk - remember that before getting burnt, you have to give the Thais more than you are prepared to throw away without a second thought. If you don't, then nothing can hurt you. If you do, then more fool you.

Once again, Thailand is a country with no health safety net, no minimum wage. In Thailand it's all about survival through cooperation (blood family first). So any farang expecting to be looked after when he has no resources left is going to be going home at double quick speed at some point, unless he is very lucky with his partner and her family.

I have bought no Thai home, buffaloes or anything else. My previous assets are protected by a prenuptial agreement. If we divorce one day, she gets nothing unless I choose to give her something. I have property and an income in Europe - I retired back in 1994, before I was even close to my 40s. A lifelong healthplan. It's that simple.

Of course we are guests in Thailand. Of course we are not accepted as fellow nationals. But that applies to expats in virtually every single country in the world with a marked history and culture. Who cares? I don't, because I don't expect or need it in the first place. So what? I've been a guest in every single place I lived. Fine by me - I don't live there in order to be accepted as one of them - that would be plain stupid. I choose to live there for other reasons. If by doing so most accept me for what I am, all well and good. Those that don't, I steer clear of. I do my best to fit in unobtrusively, to not offend. I was a Theravada Buddhism adherent many moons ago back in the UK, making some good Thai friends along the way, so I have a considerable affinity with, and understanding of the philosophy involved. As someone in Thailand remarked to me a couple of weeks back, I'm one of those very rare farangs that simply goes unnoticed, fits in.

So any comparisons with your friend "who lost everything" is just plain daft. The trick is to prepare for every eventuality, and that is what I have done throughout a quarter of a century as an expat. Thai rak Thai? Sure, it's only natural. There are so many opinionated, loud, superior-acting farangs in the country - even expats - that I can hardly blame them. But it can be worked around, with a little subtlety and intelligence. That's the trick...

frogblogger,

"....Of course we are guests in Thailand. Of course we are not accepted as fellow nationals. But that applies to expats in virtually every single country in the world with a marked history and culture..."

Oh contrare moname, one country that treats guests [especially illegal guests] as though they were native born is the USA. While I think we should give all of the benefits of native born to legal immigrants we should not [but do] also give them to illegals including Social Securtiy benefits, schooling for their children - you name it and they get it. That is not true of many countries and certainly not true of Thailand. In their [the government's] view, they would rather we stayed where we are but send them our money. If we're dumb enough to do it that's our problem but I do think the other poster is dead on when he says, regardless of how long any of us lives in Thailand, how law-abiding we are and how much we love the country we will NEVER be accepted. Tolerated but not accepted. Most of us who move to Thailand know it - or should. And what they 'give' to us they can also take away and send us packing - any time they choose. Sounds like you're wise to keep your wealth outside of Thailand and trust no one but it's sort of sad you have to isn't it?

Serendipity2

[frogblogger]

No not sad, that's part of the quid pro quo, I reckon. We can't always have our cake and eat it, but in Thailand I'm happy enough with a fair sized slice. Anyone expecting Utopia, anywhere in the world, has got a long search on their hands. The Thais protect their own, fair enough, if I'm not happy with that then I can choose to go elsewhere. Looking after number one and putting a country's nationals first is pretty much what you find anywhere on the planet.

It's not black and white in Thailand or anywhere else, people range from welcoming to offhand or even resentful, depending on their personalities and experiences. Yes there's a Thai-flavoured stamp over it all, but do unto them as you would have them do unto you is a good rule of thumb. It's worked for me pretty much anywhere in the world.

Yep the US does something along those lines, but I was thinking of countries with far longer histories and cultures that have formed over millenia, rather than the melting pot systems of the likes of the US and Oz.

[bmeade8]

Originally Posted by Serendipity2

frogblogger,

"....Of course we are guests in Thailand. Of course we are not accepted as fellow nationals. But that applies to expats in virtually every single country in the world with a marked history and culture..."

Oh contrare moname, one country that treats guests [especially illegal guests] as though they were native born is the USA. While I think we should give all of the benefits of native born to legal immigrants we should not [but do] also give them to illegals including Social Securtiy benefits, schooling for their children - you name it and they get it. That is not true of many countries and certainly not true of Thailand. In their [the government's] view, they would rather we stayed where we are but send them our money. If we're dumb enough to do it that's our problem but I do think the other poster is dead on when he says, regardless of how long any of us lives in Thailand, how law-abiding we are and how much we love the country we will NEVER be accepted. Tolerated but not accepted. Most of us who move to Thailand know it - or should. And what they 'give' to us they can also take away and send us packing - any time they choose. Sounds like you're wise to keep your wealth outside of Thailand and trust no one but it's sort of sad you have to isn't it?

Serendipity2

wow some one with some brains

Thank You!!!!!!

[Serendipity2]

Originally Posted by frogblogger

No not sad, that's part of the quid pro quo, I reckon. We can't always have our cake and eat it, but in Thailand I'm happy enough with a fair sized slice. Anyone expecting Utopia, anywhere in the world, has got a long search on their hands. The Thais protect their own, fair enough, if I'm not happy with that then I can choose to go elsewhere. Looking after number one and putting a country's nationals first is pretty much what you find anywhere on the planet.

It's not black and white in Thailand or anywhere else, people range from welcoming to offhand or even resentful, depending on their personalities and experiences. Yes there's a Thai-flavoured stamp over it all, but do unto them as you would have them do unto you is a good rule of thumb. It's worked for me pretty much anywhere in the world.

Yep the US does something along those lines, but I was thinking of countries with far longer histories and cultures that have formed over millenia, rather than the melting pot systems of the likes of the US and Oz.

frogblogger,

You're right and my apologies to the Aussies - I forgot, like the USA, they're very inclusive of new cultures and traditions as well. I don't think they've been 'invaded' like we have although they are preoccupied and worried about Indonesia.

[Serendipity2]

bmeade8,

I think much of the attitude that prevails in Thailand is pretty widespread throughout Asia - and much of it is our own fault.

We come to Thailand with a LOT of money [from their perspective], run off with the prettiest girls and from the view of many, we're pretty spoiled and ill-mannered. Most Thais work like dogs and barely survive while in their view none of us work. Especially the young 20's somethings who come to Thailand and act like they owned the joint so can we blame them? It's their country and we often act like it's ours. Is it paradise to those families barely eking out an existence with little chance to really be able to retire comfortably? Not to most.

Imagine you're a young Thai male and you see the ugly American or the ugly Frenchman or the ugly German or the ugly Brit "plundering" your natural resources, able to take the girl of your dreams out to a great dinner and ply her with gifts and even marry her. You might harbor a grudge or at least not be wild about the unfairness of it all. Best not to try to push the river or you'll get mighty tired. As they say, go with the flow. It may be that Thailand, for a variety of reasons, isn't for either you or for me.

Serendipity2

[bmeade8]

Originally Posted by Serendipity2

bmeade8,

I think much of the attitude that prevails in Thailand is pretty widespread throughout Asia - and much of it is our own fault.

We come to Thailand with a LOT of money [from their perspective], run off with the prettiest girls and from the view of many, we're pretty spoiled and ill-mannered. Most Thais work like dogs and barely survive while in their view none of us work. Especially the young 20's somethings who come to Thailand and act like they owned the joint so can we blame them? It's their country and we often act like it's ours. Is it paradise to those families barely eking out an existence with little chance to really be able to retire comfortably? Not to most.

Imagine you're a young Thai male and you see the ugly American or the ugly Frenchman or the ugly German or the ugly Brit "plundering" your natural resources, able to take the girl of your dreams out to a great dinner and ply her with gifts and even marry her. You might harbor a grudge or at least not be wild about the unfairness of it all. Best not to try to push the river or you'll get mighty tired. As they say, go with the flow. It may be that Thailand, for a variety of reasons, isn't for either you or for me.

Serendipity2

100% correct i agree with you. My point to frogman was you must know that to understand yes they don't like us. if you listed to thai music they sing about this very same thing. some of the Thai dramas touch on this subject also.

I do know their is an under current that isn't so neg to us but it is still small, some thai dramas have started to show us in a dif light. im not sure if this will catch on or not but it is nice to see. most have half thais on them now and all have thais who try to look western.

They are beginning to see the dif between Farlong and coon danchat.
Farlong be the ones who find a girl in the holiday cities to marry play a lot and drink beer all day and danchat the ones who observe Thai traditions and can play well in the system ( means you have to really understand a lot about things here but remember the rules). Their are those in the gov who support the idea we should be welcomed more here. I know i worked with many of them, but they are not blind to the majority who say boot all foreiners out. Yes that means all non Thais not farlongs. The truth is the thais fear the chinese 1mil time more than you or me. they fear thai-chinese the most. i could say more but i don't like to get into this sort of thing so lets just leave it thier.
I have a close friend she is Thai police. she is also only half thai. she has lived here all her life and has not traveled outside yet. she was told she can never be a high rank because she is only half thai. they wouldn't say it in a letter they called her in and told her off to the side. she scored second highest in that testing and was denied. told not to push it or it could get nasty so to speak. she is now going to choose to do something dif without limits. she is smart she will do well at anything she sets her mind to.