Book recommendations - Thai thinking and Thai culture

[Serendipity2]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hicks

Two quickies, the first on the inter-cultural issue of money.

As suggested, do explain to your Thai lady the limits of your income and also your unavoidable committments such as tax and other dependents. It could be complex.

Also tell her if you dare that you have some savings... but it will hard to persuade her that these should not immediately be spent on rice land, a house for Mama etc.

I suspect that Thais do not generally leave money lying in bank accounts and would immediately spend a windfall.

A farang is a windfall, a lottery win even! What's the point of money of you don't spend it!

Secondly, to widen the original post's request for books which focuses primarily on inter-cultural areas, what other books can anyone recommend on Thai culture itself.

If I have a favourite, it's Silkworm Books', "Letters from Thailand" by Botan, a pseudonym for its female Thai author.

If Thailand is run by the Chinese/Thai elite, understanding this community explains many of the contradictions of 'Thai culture'. It is in fact not one but several cultures.

This novel tells the story of a poor Chinese immigrant through the letters he sends back to his mother in China and it taught me more about the role and integration of the Chinese than anything I've read. It's an engaging story and I'd recommend it highly.

So what other books are there?

Andrew Hicks

PS And thanks for some nice comments above about mine!

Andrew,

The other two books I've read about Thai culture were a mixed bag. I though "Thai Fever" a very superficial book and marginally worth reading. As I had mentioned before it was like a Thai woman and an American man sat down one afternoon and decided to write a book - and managed to finish it that same afternoon. She seemed especially hung up on Thailand's need to apologize for the world for the sex trade/industry. Most people of the world don't see Thailand as especially unique in that regard - or that's my take. I've never had anyone here in the US ask me about the sex trade in Thailand.

The second book was pretty good - at least most of it. The book, "In the Bedroom, Out of Trouble" does a fair bit to explain Thai-western relationships and, like your book "My Thai Girl and I", gives some pretty good examples of the differences which I found interesting and useful. Then they got hung up on their survey in the back of the book which was near useless. I'm assuming the "survey" would be done while the couple were getting to know one another and I can't imagine a young woman disclosing [for instance] her sexual desires even though I'm sure she has them. Or going into detail with someone she barely knows about intimate subjects. For example [I could give many]

124 Foreplay in general [ circle the most correct answer]

Foreplay is important
Is the best part of sex
foreplay is started by the husband [what - no boyfriends?]
the woman should take an active part [well, yes!]
foreplay is for teenagers only, not for me [HELLO!]
should be long [ of course ]
should be short and sweet [there is nothing sweet about short]


Or 112

Do you practice safe sex? Always, sometimes, never?

Can you imagine taking this survey with your girlfriend/intended? I sure can't - at least as a survey. One of the beauties of sex between men and women is that you don't have to have a conversation and articulate everything. As the Yellow Pages ad says, "Let your fingers do the walking".

Anyway - the first part of the book is pretty good AND reading some of the questions will probably open one's eyes to topics/subjects that should be discussed but having an intimate conversation while you're getting to know one another? It was good for some chuckles but I think one assumes one's future wife is chaste or at least it's probably best to pretend she is. Most are. Thinking or acting like they are not WILL likely get one into trouble.

Part of the survey also goes into net worth, what you own etc. Again, I don't think filling out a survey and handing it to your future wife is really the best approach and there are probably aspects of your finances you would prefer to keep to yourself. I would. I guess, on balance, buy and read the book but don't take that survey too seriously. She might save it and give it to her divorce lawyer should you stray.

Serendipity2

[Andrew Hicks]

So clinical an approach as a survey about upstairs predelictions sounds a complete turn off, I suspect particularly for a Thai woman whose modesty (or cultivated aura of modesty) will most certainly preclude it.

On a different point, I think it's extraordinarily difficult writing directly about cross-cultural relationships as these necessitate generalisations that inevitably are dangerous and off the mark.

That's partly why I asked members to tell us their favourite fiction about Thailand as a story can sometimes suggest truths that cannot be expressed head-on.

Readers often tell me that my novel, "Thai Girl" ( a 'tropical Romeo and Juliet without the coffins') shed light on their own perplexing experiences in Thailand and I'm thrilled if that's the case. You can find some of their comments on the Readers Forum on Thai Girl 2004 by Andrew Hicks - A romantic and touching story that tells what happens when young travellers meet Thais.

Any more novels about Thailand?

Andrew

[frogblogger]

I though "Thai Fever" a very superficial book and marginally worth reading.

Have to disagree, S2. While not a literary masterpiece, 'Thailand For Dummies' style books are never intended to be anything other than a simple presentation of cultural differences, and which inevitably include a lot of stereotyping towards this end. It's an introduction, Thailand 101, not a thesis on the subject.

To someone with little or no experience of LOS, it will be an eye-opener. I found few factual errors, although I squirmed at some of the pigeon-holing, it was overall a quite accurate and extensive presentation of key differences a newbie will encounter.

It is quite cleverly cleverly written, and for a Westen guy/Thai girl relationship, can be helful for both partners. We can move on to the more intellectual stuff, but the likes of Andrew Hicks' books and Thai Fever are written with very different ends in mind (with the exception of the aim of making a few baht, of course ) ...

[frogblogger]

Not limited to Buddhism by any means, more of a personal journey, contrasting lifestyle differences between a Western nation and an essentially Buddhist one. Here's a review from Thailand Backpacking: Travel Happy - sums it up for me, I enjoyed the read very much.

Phra Farang: An English Monk in Thailand

Given that Phra Peter is one of only a handful of Westerners who have become ordained monks within Thailand, Phra Farang would be an interesting document purely as a historical record - but Phra Peter's measured prose and lack of pomposity makes Phra Farang a fascinating read, not only for his own life's transformation but as an insight into Thai culture and Buddhist religion in general. Given that both are so traditionally alien to the West, Phra Peter makes them distinctly more comprehensible by charting his own path through his understanding of the teachings of the Buddha and coming to terms with living within the very different precepts of Thai monk life.

That said, Phra Farang is definitely a memoir rather than a primer about Buddhist teachings - and Phra Peter concentrates on anecdotes of contrasting memories of his previous lifestyle against his new Buddhist life. Beginning with a visit to the UK Thai monastery (situated somewhat surreally in the leafy groves of Wimbledon), Phra Peter describes how over the course of five years he decided to ordain as a monk. Originally he planned to do this in England but discovered he could only ordain in Bangkok - and so began his life in Thailand, despite being unable to speak a word of Thai and a fair amount of hostility from his fellow Thai monks who became jealous of the celebrity he was accorded as a farang monk.

Despite devoting a couple of chapters to his reasons for becoming a monk, Phra Peter remains quite vague about what specifically drove him to the change. He also gives little discussion of how he coped with the stringent demands of being ordained - celibacy being the most pressing one from this reviewer's perspective. That said, his descriptions of his spiritual progress are lucid and moving, and the general good humour that shines from the prose indicates the writings of a man who has achieved some of the peace of mind that he is looking for. There are also numerous amusing anecdotes about his various linguistic cockups and practical gaffes with religious protocol. These are perhaps inevitable but their inclusion indicates not only a lack of po-facedness on Phra Peter's part but also a desire to demonstrate that whilst monks are revered by Thai people, they do not consider themselves above or better than them.

Equally interesting are those parts of Phra Farang that deal with Thai rural life - Phra Peter moved from Bangkok within a few months of arriving and spent the rest of his time in Thailand's more remote monasteries. Outside of the big tourist cities, Thailand is still an extremely poor country in many rural areas and almost wholly different to urban Thai life. Phra Peter's recounting of various countryside rituals, traditions and superstitions, usually wholly unseen by Western eyes, provides a fascinating glimpse of this other Thailand.

Since it was first published in 1998, Phra Farang has sold steadily - it is certainly a hugely accessible introduction both to Thai Buddhism and the Thai way of life. All royalties from the book go the Special Education Trust, set up by Phra Peter to give grants to bright Thai rural kids who otherwise would not be able to afford to go to school, let alone university.

I would just emphasise that I particularly liked the sense of humour, and his willingness to see through the faults in the way Buddhism is sometimes practiced in Thailand, layers of hypocrisy. Blessing motorbikes, banishing evil spirits, corruption, the wealth of certain temples, for example.

[Serendipity2]

Originally Posted by frogblogger

Not limited to Buddhism by any means, more of a personal journey, contrasting lifestyle differences between a Western nation and an essentially Buddhist one. Here's a review from Thailand Backpacking: Travel Happy - sums it up for me, I enjoyed the read very much.

Phra Farang: An English Monk in Thailand



I would just emphasise that I particularly liked the sense of humour, and his willingness to see through the faults in the way Buddhism is sometimes practiced in Thailand, layers of hypocrisy. Blessing motorbikes, banishing evil spirits, corruption, the wealth of certain temples, for example.

frogblogger,

".....Blessing motorbikes,..." It sounds like the blessing should be for the motorbike rider and not the motorbike. Especially if he's English!

Serendipity2

[Andrew Hicks]

I think that for Phra Farang it was more than seeing through the follies and foibles of Buddhism as practiced in Thailand. I think it was a pretty substantial disillusionment with his own experience of it.

He did leave the priesthood after all... which is normal in Thailand, but I wonder whether in private he might be more judgmental than is expressed in the book.

Andrew

[blue eyes]

I had read Thai Fever because a friend had told me it was a good read.Well I woulnd not say it is a good read but an ok read.I found much of it did not pertain to my wife and I.It seemed that it is geared to the "bar girl"and the westerner that partakes of the same seen.On the other hand my wife liked it as a book to read not so much as a manual for Thai western relationships.Well enough said on that.
These are three books that I did enjoy reading and have actually read them more then once.I have found the information in them of use to me.The illustrations in them are entertaining as well.A bit on the expensive side but still a great read.700thb at Asia Books
"Thai Culture and Society" by Roger Welty
"Successful Living in Thailand" by Roger Welty
"Living in the Thai Countryside" by Hakan Kolmodin
They are published, distributed and available at Asia Books.

[Serendipity2]

Originally Posted by blue eyes

I had read Thai Fever because a friend had told me it was a good read.Well I woulnd not say it is a good read but an ok read.I found much of it did not pertain to my wife and I.It seemed that it is geared to the "bar girl"and the westerner that partakes of the same seen.On the other hand my wife liked it as a book to read not so much as a manual for Thai western relationships.Well enough said on that.
These are three books that I did enjoy reading and have actually read them more then once.I have found the information in them of use to me.The illustrations in them are entertaining as well.A bit on the expensive side but still a great read.700thb at Asia Books
"Thai Culture and Society" by Roger Welty
"Successful Living in Thailand" by Roger Welty
"Living in the Thai Countryside" by Hakan Kolmodin
They are published, distributed and available at Asia Books.

blue eyes,

I can't say I was as enthused as you regarding "Thai Fever" but I did learn from the book so it wasn't a complete bust. "In the Bedroom out of Trouble" might interest you - especially now that you're married [that pesky "survey"] and gives a lot of good anecdotal information. Now that you're married you are far more likely [both of you since the survey is for each to fill out and compare] to have meaning and relevance. I can't imagine asking a sweet young thing I'm just getting to know some of those questions or her being willing to respond as well. My favorite book about the nitty gritty of life as an expat in rural Thailand was "My Thai Girl and I" by Andrew Hicks. Andrew, do I get any kickbacks here?
Well written and humorous, it is his private story/thoughts on life in a rural town in Isaan, dealing with his new family with all the headaches and challenges that brings and the vast difference in values between our cultures. I really enjoyed the book and learned a lot about what life as the only farang within rifle shot. It can't be easy - much easier were he [or any of us] living in a city like Chaing Mai where there are other farangs to talk with and a semblance of normality for most of us. Anyway, that's my two cents. I'll give those other books a butcher's hook! Thanks for the recommendations!

Serendipity2

[happy bunny]

While working in Thailand with a couple of Westerners and a few Thais we enjoyed discussing the issue of understanding Thai culture. What was most surprising was how weird the Western culture was when we reviewed how we Westerners behaved. We discovered a lot of ways that Westerners would take offence if we were not spoken to with the 'right tone and sentence construction'. Yet none of us Westerners even had a clue how sensitive we all were and how hard we were to deal with. A book about Western culture would be shocking for us to learn how odd we can be.

[Andrew Hicks]

Originally Posted by happy bunny

While working in Thailand with a couple of Westerners and a few Thais we enjoyed discussing the issue of understanding Thai culture. What was most surprising was how weird the Western culture was when we reviewed how we Westerners behaved. We discovered a lot of ways that Westerners would take offence if we were not spoken to with the 'right tone and sentence construction'. Yet none of us Westerners even had a clue how sensitive we all were and how hard we were to deal with. A book about Western culture would be shocking for us to learn how odd we can be.

Interesting! Yes, there's a certain arrogance about trying to define what's 'odd' about Thai culture.

In writing, 'MY THAI GIRL AND I' I was well aware that it was I who was the odd one out. The theme of the book is that to succeed in living here n Thailand you have to 'go with the flow and to adapt and not to try to set 'rules'for the Thais in your life, as I fear some expats try to do.

And thanks Serendipity 2 so much for the glowing report of my book. There's no commission but a significant increment to your kharma for being so generous and kind and for making my day.

Finally, if you want a cautionary novel about money grabbing bar girls, there's nothing like "A Woman of Bangkok by Jack Reynolds who died twenty five years ago.

It's all quite fascinationg and I'm trying to unravel his life story.

Do have a look at my blog at Thai Girl.

There you'll find a picture of a sexy and delicius Thai girl totally nude.

I kid thee not!

Andrew Hicks