taking the plunge

[gerg]

Can I present my situation to everybody and maybe get some feedback-the story goes something like this: I am 60 years old, retired and living in a less than desirable relationship which has staggered on for 10 years. This has been my 2nd go at trying to maintain a lasting, loving relationship and unfortunately it ain't gonna work. However, bioth totalled some 30 years and produced two very nice grown up kids. Three years ago when visiting LOS I met(virtually accidentally) my Thai lady friend. Things progressed to the point that I have been back 3 times for a total period of 6 months. Why did I do this-because I knew there was little hope back here. Anyway, I helped her get a small house in her home(Isaan) village and we have spent a lot of time together there on my OS trips. So, I know a bit about the Thai way of life, village living, potential probs with finances, relatives and all the rest. Unlike some of the farang/Thai relationships I see on the net we do have a very nice thing going. At the very least, it is nice having someone who actually seems to love me, want me and has very nice habits. Each time on returning "home" I have waited to see if there were any changes-nope. So, even though life is comfortable here, it isn't a life and I want something else for the rest of my life. I fluctuate between certainty of living virtually in LOS despite the work of settlement(property) and the actual move and the fear of waking up if I do go and thinking that I have made a big mistake. However, nothing ventured... So, has anybody faced the same dilemna of uncertainty and can help? I have reasonable to good retirement finance and could get a bigger better house in the town close to the village(too small to live permanently but a good weekender close to family)

[KhwaamLap]

Gerg,

how can I say this...be careful! Look through posts here and posts in Thaivisa.com - many,many nice poeple loose everything becaus of their Thai love.I am saying this as someone married to a Thai for over a decade, so it certainly can work. There is a basic golden rule here (in Thailand) that you will hear time and time again, "Only spend what you are willing to walk away from".
Yu can not legally own land here (Ok, there are some 'ways and means' that vary in their dubiousness, but officially - nope) so if she kicks you out after a week and you are not married (or bought the home before marriage) then she is going to keep it. There are quite good divorce laws here (even if poeple do not think there are) and prenuptuals can help too. Not wanting to look at the end before the beginningnhas got under way, but what I'm saying is be careful and protect yourself from day one. Do the research!!!

As to your marriage, I say "you only live once" - this life any way. Your choice, be a miserable, but safe old man or live out the rest in love, being cared for and the adventure of a new culture.

'nuff said my friend, good luck.

[frogblogger]

What can I add, nothing really, that's it in a nutshell from KL. As KL says ref house ownership, you're virtually without rights if the purchase is before marriage. I have no regrets about the move and relationship, although I have been careful not to buy anything substantial so far. It's kind of my way of testing sincerity, just how genuine things are between us. And we have been together for nearly two years, and have a 7 month old baby.

My suggestion is to compromise - go for the move, but don't burn all your bridges. If your relationship is effectively over back home, what have you got to lose? You're not giving up work if you are retired, and if you don't put all your investment eggs in one basket, even if the relationship goes sour in LOS you can still live there on a retirement visa, and well too if the pension is good.

I'm a bit cautious, so have rented properties so far. In Isaan they can be had very cheaply. Why buy so early on in a relationship if you can rent a nice place for between 100 and 200 euros pm, I reckoned...

[gerg]

To KL and FB-thank you both for your replies. I am aware of the land ownership laws even though I believe that one can still own the house. Condos on the coast can be had titled but I do not want to live in a unit/apartment except for holidays. I am very sure that my lady friend is not after any cash or property. I will have to burn some bridges -ie house share but the money would be saved to put towards a house back here if the LOS relationship turned sour. After 2 reasonably lengthy relationships I think I can now recognise what not to look for. If I did buy a house in Isaan it would only be after careful thought as we already have the cottage in her village to live in in the interim whilst we really tried full time living together rather than what we did before. Anyway, guys, what I am saying is that I am aware of the pitfalls but I am looking for some info from those expats who have been happy with their move to Thailand. Luckily I do have financial resources if things fall apart but at this stage and after having had 3 live-in experiences I can only compare that to this. I suffer from acute boredom and have done so all my life and here I am bored ****less most of the time. I do not want to settle into the waste your life type of retirement but having lived OS before abd having found a (I am sure) genuine lady/friend/lover elsewhere I feel that I can no longer take second best here. Sorry for the ramblings. I have seen on previous post retirement trips in say, Pattaya, Phuket the old man/lady Thai thing and they mostly look doomed even to a casual observer. My lady is 41, divorced for a long time with a grown up uni educated daughter but has done it reasonably tough for the last 10 years until I showed up. We clicked pretty well straight away and now it is to the stage where she knows my foibles and I hers. So- any more input would be really appreciated.

[Serendipity2]

Originally Posted by gerg

To KL and FB-thank you both for your replies. I am aware of the land ownership laws even though I believe that one can still own the house. Condos on the coast can be had titled but I do not want to live in a unit/apartment except for holidays. I am very sure that my lady friend is not after any cash or property. I will have to burn some bridges -ie house share but the money would be saved to put towards a house back here if the LOS relationship turned sour. After 2 reasonably lengthy relationships I think I can now recognise what not to look for. If I did buy a house in Isaan it would only be after careful thought as we already have the cottage in her village to live in in the interim whilst we really tried full time living together rather than what we did before. Anyway, guys, what I am saying is that I am aware of the pitfalls but I am looking for some info from those expats who have been happy with their move to Thailand. Luckily I do have financial resources if things fall apart but at this stage and after having had 3 live-in experiences I can only compare that to this. I suffer from acute boredom and have done so all my life and here I am bored ****less most of the time. I do not want to settle into the waste your life type of retirement but having lived OS before abd having found a (I am sure) genuine lady/friend/lover elsewhere I feel that I can no longer take second best here. Sorry for the ramblings. I have seen on previous post retirement trips in say, Pattaya, Phuket the old man/lady Thai thing and they mostly look doomed even to a casual observer. My lady is 41, divorced for a long time with a grown up uni educated daughter but has done it reasonably tough for the last 10 years until I showed up. We clicked pretty well straight away and now it is to the stage where she knows my foibles and I hers. So- any more input would be really appreciated.

gerg,

Congratulations to you. I hope everything works out well. I can't add much to the good advice given by KhwaamLap and frogblogger but I would urge you be cautious and keep most of your money/savings/resources out of Thailand for at least a few years - just in case. I remember the best advice I've ever heard re marriage - "Marry in haste - repent in leisure". If Thai law allows you to own a condo in your own name I would even consider that and save buying a home for later when you're sure it's forever. Which brings to mind another bit of wisdom, "What is the difference between true love and herpes? Herpes is forever". No matter how smitten you are now - be smart. Get a prenuptial agreement between you. Be generous with her if things do not work out but also be fair with yourself. You should write it as though the only person that will read it is her divorce lawyer. In the warmth of a new love our brains sometimes gravitate south - especially when our beloved is rubbing up against us. Again, my congratulations to you and hope everything works out for you and your lady friend!

Serendipity2

[frogblogger]

Gerg, just one thing in case of misunderstanding, I wasn't thinking about land ownership rights, just that a foreigner cannot have a house in his own name in LOS. As such any house purchase has to be via the company ownership route (majority 51% owned by Thai shareholders with - theoretically - few rights), or in the name of your partner. I was thinking of the latter case, ie if you buy in her name.

If you do this before marriage, then your partner has a very strong case in the event of a breakdown of the relationship, and I have seen examples of farangs being thrown out by their partners. The fact that the farang can prove he paid the entire purchase price can sometimes be an argument for recovering some funds, but it is a very difficult legal route and the odds are against you. To sum up, you are pretty much giving a property to your partner if you buy in her name before marriage,

If married before purchase, the farang can usually recover half of the property investment if things go wrong.

Best of luck!

[KhwaamLap]

Gerg, you are probably on a much safer bet with a 40+ year old (your's being 41) as she is probably lonely too - and unlikely to be 'a working girl' with practice of ripping off Farangs. So, good choice there.

I must say though, that most Farangs rent here. There are many reasons and I'll try to list a few:
- Houses are not the investment as they are expected to be in the west (pre credit crunch at least). Thais prefer to buy new or rent old too.
- Houses are often not built to last (especially now a days) and if you rent, you can just move if the house starts to fall apart.
- There are basically no community protection laws here. You neighbour could suddenly turn their house into an all night disco, bar, brothel, motorbike garage, kennels, whatever and if the right tea money is paid, tough.
- Rents are very cheap.
- You can move at will.
- Many come fully furnished (TV and kitchen electrics, beds and bedding, furniture, the works), so keeps the costs down there too (though I'd buy your own bedding!).

You will be surprised by the price of second hand cars here. Thais never really got the term 'depreciation'. Ten year old cars, dented and unserviced for years will still cost thousands of dollars! Nearly new cars are the same (or strangely sometimes more) than the new prices. New pickups can be had for cheap though.

One other thing though - if you are easily bored, village life may not be for you. After the holiday novelty has worn off, its basically boring - that's why most of us live somewhere more urban like Chiang Mai (or Pattaya if your mad - sorry KS). Its also nice to hear some English now and again too (especially if your Thai is up to it) - and get a decent (ish) internet connection. Just a thought.

Good luck and let us know when you're one of us

[gerg]

Thank you all for your considered replies. After a lifetime working with people I sort of think I can assess them OK and I am not too worried about the ownership of house/land etc although the concept of a pre-nup makes sense. I guess at the end of the day the ultimate decision is mine but I naively am looking for someone or something to say to me-"don't worry about the fear thing, just do it and make it work" or "what is there for you here"(Australia) or "you know things will not get better " and as my mum advised "go for it". Did you all have the same fears??.

[KhwaamLap]

Originally Posted by gerg

Thank you all for your considered replies. After a lifetime working with people I sort of think I can assess them OK and I am not too worried about the ownership of house/land etc although the concept of a pre-nup makes sense. I guess at the end of the day the ultimate decision is mine but I naively am looking for someone or something to say to me-"don't worry about the fear thing, just do it and make it work" or "what is there for you here"(Australia) or "you know things will not get better " and as my mum advised "go for it". Did you all have the same fears??.

To tell you the truth I got the opposite from my freinds and family - lots of "What are you going to do there?", "Its so far away, how can ou find help if you need it?" and "If you go there you'll be back in a year penniless". I had been planning the move for 15 years, when the opportunity came up (when work dried up in the UK and it became just as viable to be in LoS as in Britain) I said "sod it" and moved here - within 6 weeks from selling my UK home, I found myself in my new home in Chiang Mai.

I don't think anyone is trying to put you off, we are just making sure you see the pitfalls before you leap head first into them (and soooooo many of us do!). With brain intact (and in gear), follow your heart mate. As I said earlier, you only live this life once - don't die thinking what could have been. There's no point being miserable, as your mum said 'go for it' and see you here

[gerg]

Originally Posted by KhwaamLap

To tell you the truth I got the opposite from my freinds and family - lots of "What are you going to do there?", "Its so far away, how can ou find help if you need it?" and "If you go there you'll be back in a year penniless". I had been planning the move for 15 years, when the opportunity came up (when work dried up in the UK and it became just as viable to be in LoS as in Britain) I said "sod it" and moved here - within 6 weeks from selling my UK home, I found myself in my new home in Chiang Mai.

I don't think anyone is trying to put you off, we are just making sure you see the pitfalls before you leap head first into them (and soooooo many of us do!). With brain intact (and in gear), follow your heart mate. As I said earlier, you only live this life once - don't die thinking what could have been. There's no point being miserable, as your mum said 'go for it' and see you here

Thanks KL-Have been to Chiang Mai(twice) and it is the sort of place that appeals to me also. However, because of my lady friends family and relations I am pretty sure that we would keep the small cottage I built for her (her first ever house) and maybe buy in Chonnabot which is a reasonable sized town close by. That shouldn't cost too much I would hope. The idea of living by the sea also appeals so maybe a condo/apartment at say Hua Hin or even Pattaya despite the sleaze side of town. Whoops, there goes all the cash. Another option is with the 1/2 share of my Oz house put that towards another Australian house in case everything falls apart or I need time in both countries. There is only so much money to go around and leave enough in my own pension fund to live off the income. Anyway, more thought required. You are right about making the move I'm pretty sure. As a friend said to me, "you know at 60 years of age and when you convert that to a 24 hour clock based on expectancy of 80-it's 6 pm"(and getting dark). One of the major reasons I retired reasonably early. I am in no rush to ever work again but need more than village or town life to keep me occupied. Casual teaching perhaps?? Part owner of a business ?? Anyway, at least I would be in a much better relationship than now with future prospects. Cheers.