Learning at read, write and speak Thai

[Lantaschool]

Hi Serendipity2

So are you still interested in learning to read, speak and write Thai, or has King Silk put you off :-)

[Lantaschool]

oh sorry - I just realised I'd only read page 1 of the thread

[Lantaschool]

Hi everyone

When learning Thai, try to find a school or course that teaches you through experience and action rather than translation. There is evidence that strongly suggests these methods are most effective. I have a link to an an article which shows the evidence - but I'm not allowed to display it yet

If you google TPR World Review Evidence I think it comes out top!

We introduced these methods into our Thai language courses a year ago now, and have seen a dramatic increase in success rates for our students. Over the last 6 months we experienced a 100% success rate.

Sorry - Serendipity2 - We don't have a school in Chiang Mai - but if you fancy a holiday to Koh Lanta?

[ginocox]

Interesting article. It was interesting to note the way flash cards were manipulated to invoke motor learning skills to teach abstract concepts. Even so, it does seem the approach is better suited to simple actions and common objects than to rules of grammar, verb tenses, intransitive verbs or abstract concepts. I’d like to see somebody use the approach for something like: “At five o’clock, if the teacher has not returned, write a paragraph about the difference between love and respect.”

There is Yin and Yang in everything. I have no idea what a 100% success rate represents. I have a 100% success rate every day in such matters as remembering to exhale after inhaling and opening my eyes before attempting to read, but I also have a 100% failure rate in such matters as winning the lottery and being named to some magazine’s list of the hundred most [eligible, wealthy, successful, sexy, etc.] men in America. I recently considered taking a TESL/TESOL certificate course. One of the reasons I did not was that nearly everybody passed the course. What real value is a certificate that nearly anybody can obtain? Does a 100% success rate mean the least capable students are somehow empowered to learn at the level of the most capable?

[Lantaschool]

Originally Posted by ginocox

Interesting article. It was interesting to note the way flash cards were manipulated to invoke motor learning skills to teach abstract concepts. Even so, it does seem the approach is better suited to simple actions and common objects than to rules of grammar, verb tenses, intransitive verbs or abstract concepts. I’d like to see somebody use the approach for something like: “At five o’clock, if the teacher has not returned, write a paragraph about the difference between love and respect.”

There is Yin and Yang in everything. I have no idea what a 100% success rate represents. I have a 100% success rate every day in such matters as remembering to exhale after inhaling and opening my eyes before attempting to read, but I also have a 100% failure rate in such matters as winning the lottery and being named to some magazine’s list of the hundred most [eligible, wealthy, successful, sexy, etc.] men in America. I recently considered taking a TESL/TESOL certificate course. One of the reasons I did not was that nearly everybody passed the course. What real value is a certificate that nearly anybody can obtain? Does a 100% success rate mean the least capable students are somehow empowered to learn at the level of the most capable?

Very good points

We use a combination of techniques with a strong (but not sole) emphasis on interaction and learning through experience and action. In addition to this - these techniques are especially effective when learning the Thai language as the grammar of the Thai language is extremely easy.

There are no conjugations, declensions, inflections etc. Thai words do not change form with gender, person, number, or even tense. Yesterday, tomorrow, already, or will are added to sentence structures to indicate tense. When learning Thai, you don’t need to learn if a word is masculine or feminine, and there are no articles. There are no words for “a”, “an” or “the”, and generally if a word is not needed to communicate meaning, then it’s omitted, keeping sentences very simplistic in structure.


Your point about the 100% success rate is interesting. To clarify - I meant that over the last six months, 100% of our students have passed their final exams. The exams are based on the same structure as Cambridge ESOL, a highly regarded qualification.

In terms of the perceived value of a certificate where most students pass - I guess that really depends upon your motives for learning. If you want to learn Thai - then that is exactly what we aim to deliver, and that is what our students succeed at. We want all of our students to learn Thai when they come to us - not only the select few who display a strong aptitude for learning a second language.

Our mission is to make the language accessible to as many people as possible. We achieve this by adapting our techniques and improving the method by which we teach, not by reducing the content or quality of the subject we are teaching.

I hope that helps... bye for now

[ginocox]

As I’ve said before, the Thai language is much like Thai women, very beautiful, but overly complex, infuriatingly ambiguous and often too polite to say what really needs to be said.

There’s Yin and Yang in everything. English has twelve basic tenses, not counting infinitives, imperatives and various constructions with auxiliary verbs, which are more difficult to learn, but once mastered, make it easy to say precisely what happened in relation to various time frames or other activities. In Thai, it is relatively simple to form a grammatically correct sentence, but it is not always clear and unambiguous as to when who did what to whom. Compared to English or French, I would think Thai is relatively poorly suited to technical writing and legal contracts.

While the grammar is simple, Thai has the complexity of forty-four consonants, thirty-odd vowels and five tones. Attempting to spell an unfamiliar word can be a challenge for beginning students. Six letters sound like T in the initial position and sixteen sound like T in the final position. The distinction is obvious to native speakers who know the classes of consonants and such, but I have enough trouble distinguishing ด from ต, without trying to discriminate between ท and ธ. Trying to find a word in the dictionary is a challenge, as the entries aren’t in what Westerners consider alphabetical order. On-line dictionaries are easier to use, if the word is spelled correctly, but return nothing if a tone mark is omitted. Unfortunately, there is a lot of misspelling, particularly in e-mails and postings on Internet message boards, but also in Thai/English textbooks. And the organization of the keyboard is a mystery to me, although one supposes the same might be said for the English language QWERTY layout. And if this doesn’t allow for sufficient complexity, Thai throws in words like ก็, which can have about six different meanings depending on context, or might mean nothing at all, but be thrown in for emphasis. And don’t get me started on topics like the Thai approach to telling time, pronouns or the separate vocabularies reserved for royalty and monks.

To think, I once considered studying Mandarin, but thought Thai would be easier.

[Lantaschool]

Hello Ginocox

You do sound as though you’re having fun with the Thai language.

It’s true that it is immensely different to the English language.

First of all – it is what is known as a HIGH context language. Meaning that the actual words used do not necessarily create the entire message of what is being communicated. You need to read between the lines, listen to what is not being said, and consider the context of the situation, before you can really understand.

This can be confusing, and does lead to a lot of misunderstandings between
westerners and Thais.. Consider Mai Pen Rai as a classic example!!

Because of this – we believe it is essential to learn about the Thai culture while learning to speak, read or write the language. Being taught by a well educated Thai person can really help. As you become more and more familiar with the culture, you start to understand what is being said given the context of the situation. For example. A Thai person may say something to two people. One is a Thai person, the other person is a westerner who has a good grasp of the Thai language. Despite knowing the language and vocabulary, the Western person could still misunderstand, whereas the Thai person is likely to completely understand given the context of what is being said, and the way it is communicated – simply because they have the same cultural background.

There are many differences between the English and Thai languages. It may help to consider them as “differences” rather than complexities. Because they are so different, we believe it is easier to grasp the language if you learn in an interactive and experiential way. Considering the language from an English mindset, can make it seem complicated – making learning from translation challenging. Learning by doing and experiencing may help you to “think” in Thai, which won’t eliminate the differences – but will change your focus slightly, and perhaps make those differences seem less daunting and less challenging.... It will also help you to retain what you’ve learned, as the memory traces run deeper at a more subconscious level.

Learning to read, write and speak Thai is naturally the best approach, however it is important that listening plays an enormous role. One word can have 5 different meanings, depending upon the tone that is used, not the context. For an English speaker it can be difficult to hear these individual tones at first, but through listening, interacting and experiencing it becomes a lot easier to identify the different meanings. It helps if the person you are listening to is a native Thai speaker.

Just a few thoughts that we hope may help you. You certainly seem to be doing well anyway...

Repetition is also of course key to learning. Introducing varied methods of repetition – such as sound files, videos and computer games, and using vocabulary lists and dictionaries as back up - may also help you, and will help sustain your motivation...

Good luck – and keep flowing through the Yin and Yang

[ginocox]

Of course, that depends upon the Thai tutor having the correct pronunciation and an appropriate cultural reference. I’ve been privileged to study with one of the monks at the local Thai Buddhist temple. (“Local” is a bit of a misnomer. Thai Buddhists prefer to locate their temples where the monks will have access to large tracts of open space for quiet meditation, so the temples tend to be a couple of kilometers east of nowhere.) The monk is a nice guy, although he sometimes seems to feel obliged to act like Pai Mei, which seems to stem from his own preconceptions of what a monk should be.

Even though Thai seems to depend upon subtle differences in pronunciation and inflection, he, like many Thais, seems to swich ร and ล somewhat indiscriminately. If he says, “ใคล,” and I repeat, “ใคร,” to indicate my understanding, he tries to correct my pronunciation.

His concept of tones is also far different from what a Thai instructor at another temple taught me. And I’ve heard this from another Thai, as well. I was taught to shift pitch. My first instructors would recite a sort of tonal scale to demonstrate where a word fit. But the monk seems to think in terms of weight and volume, rather than modulating pitch.

When I became frustrated with the quality and variety of self-instruction materials, particularly at the intermediate level, I decided to produce my own. (I’ve worked in video production and have my own lights, cameras, microphones and such.) My idea was to produce brief comedic sketches with optional English and Thai subtitles, which would form the basis for various drills and exercises. It’s been a massive exercise in cultural shock.

My Thai actors, from the perspective of an Italian-American, didn’t speak with much emotion, despite my exhortations to speak with more feeling. Part of the difference seems to be cultural, based upon a deeply ingrained cultural imperative to behave politely in public. But it also seems to reflect a need to maintain correct tones to differentiate between words, rather than to express emotion.

Words and expressions in English can also have different meanings, as anybody familiar with George Carlin’s “****” routine or anybody who remembers Johnny Depp’s discourse on the meaning of “forget about it” in Donnie Brasco can attest. Correct interpretation depends on context and tone, but often these are manipulated. English speakers often say humorous things in serious tones as a way of joking.

จีโน่

[bushke]

I am thinking about learning Thai and would like also an Educational Visa.
I live in Bangkok but not in the center. I live in RAMA 2 area. Does anyone know if this area has any Thai schools that are licensed by the ministry of education?
All help would be appreciated.

[Oneman]

Originally Posted by Serendipity2

I am hoping to learn Thai if I'm going to retire in Thailand. I don't mean learning to speak 'conversational' Thai so you can say "hello" and such but learn to read, write AND speak Thai.

Serendipity2 -

...I agree with your goal of learning to read the language.
Many benefits to doing that.
One huge and immediate benefit from learning to read, is, when you do speak, you will know how the words should sound, because the written words indicate tone, emphasis, and vowel length.

...There are many language schools here in Chiangmai.
And schools come and go with surprising frequency.
Pro-Language opened a few months ago.
Walen School is getting ready to open in September, 2009.
There are many others, including at the universities here.
Even the Chiangmai YMCA offers language classes.
(Not recommending any, just mentioning.)

...However, students/customers for the schools are not so common.
Some classes are canceled for lack of customers.
As the world-wide economic depression spreads, foreigner students will become even more scarce than they are now.
So I recommend you not make any long-term commitments with any school.
Better to simply arrive here, and spend a few days touring the schools.

...Schools will let you to sit in on a class before you enroll: no charge.
Doing that is essential, because some schools here are run Thai style.
That means poorly organized, with old teaching materials that don't reflect modern teaching methods.

...But the biggest problem with the language schools is the Thai teachers.
They may be delightful people, but Thais never had good teachers when they were students, so they don't know what good teaching is.
They seem to think that teaching is having fun and playing games.
If students laugh a lot, it is considered a good lesson.
So if you are diligent about learning the language, be prepared to be frustrated and disappointed with some of your teachers and their teaching methods.

...Now I will bring up one aspect of learning the language which has not yet been discussed on this thread:
That is the choice to learn in a school or with private teachers.
Others here might plead the case for schools.
I recommend private teachers for several reasons:

1) Thai is a tonal language.
As a man, you want to speak like a man.
The vowel lengths, average pitch, and modulation, are very different for men in Thai language.
With private teacher, you can select a man.
But in most schools, most teachers are women.
You don't want to come out speaking Thai like a woman.

2) Thai teachers have a very high opinion of themselves.
They are the superior and you (the student) are the inferior in any interaction.
If you ask questions, Thai teachers will often take that as loss of face.
But with private teachers, you are in control, because you pay them.
They will be more patient and helpful about correcting your mistakes and helping you learn.

3) In a class, the teacher will stick to the schedule.
If you can keep up, fine, but if not, you'll just get further and further behind.
With private teachers, they will go at your pace.
If you need to review -- and you will -- your teacher will help you.
In classes, there is very little review.

4) Teachers of Thai language don't earn much.
Their "big money" comes from private lessons.
The classes are seen as just a means for finding private lesson customers.
So even if you intend to take only group classes, be prepared to come under some pressure to sign up for private lessons as well.
And, if you take private lessons, your classroom teacher will tend to give you special attention during the class: answering your questions and helping you to review.
If you don't, she won't.
It's the Thai way.

5) An hour of private lessons costs about 2-3 times the price of an hour of classroom learning.
My own experience is I actually do learn 2-3 times more in the private lesson, with the right teacher.

I hope this is helpful in your planning to learn the language.

-- Oneman
Chiangmai
.