Learning at read, write and speak Thai

[oddball]

Originally Posted by Serendipity2

Thanks oddball. An excellent addition to this forum and perhaps a bit more active. I noted that there is a language school that plans to open soon but I fear it will just be spoken Thai which is of only modest value. I concur with you that learning to read, write and speak Thai is a difficult task but with the right venue I hope it's an achievable goal. Certainly worth a shot! Thanks again for the heads-up. I also read a number of posts re dentists in Chiang Mai as well. A good dentist is important to everyone who wants to live a long and lusty life!

Serendipity2

Just read a (Kind of) survey on this subject which is far more complex than you could dream of , especially if you are of the ilk that wake up in the night suffering a cold sweat . Wealthy aliens do not bother to learn one word , rather surround themselves with English speaking compatriots and a multitude of translators , those in the middle such as myself , learn only sufficient to get by on a daily basis , tell the taxi where to go (nicely) , make the odd purchase and of course "Pout thai mai dai , nidnoe " . The unfortunates who generaly claim to be "Living like a native " most likely from lack of funds to buy a decent meal , put in the biggest effort to speak Thai .

I have been told on more than one occassion , if I wish to visit Thailand I should learn the language , yeah , yeah , learn a language that even many natives find it difficult to impossible to read or write during a lifetime , for a three week vacation , typical Thai logic !!!! The year happens to be 2009 not 1009 , most of the world speaks English to survive on the global market , the English they learn in school is attrocious , the 'Educated ' write signs in almost unintelligeable English but have too much 'Face 'to ask for help . Because of this 'Face ánd multiple other reasons , many expats have left or are in the proccess of leaving to surrounding countries that actualy want us to visit and live in , Thai have become more agressive toward aliens in both manner and deed , thier rip-off scaming has become more widespread , death of Brits is greater than in any other country , and you want to learn the Thai language , but they still believe they are number one in almost everything .

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors , you will need it , if not sooner , later .

[Serendipity2]

Originally Posted by oddball

Just read a (Kind of) survey on this subject which is far more complex than you could dream of , especially if you are of the ilk that wake up in the night suffering a cold sweat . Wealthy aliens do not bother to learn one word , rather surround themselves with English speaking compatriots and a multitude of translators , those in the middle such as myself , learn only sufficient to get by on a daily basis , tell the taxi where to go (nicely) , make the odd purchase and of course "Pout thai mai dai , nidnoe " . The unfortunates who generaly claim to be "Living like a native " most likely from lack of funds to buy a decent meal , put in the biggest effort to speak Thai .

I have been told on more than one occassion , if I wish to visit Thailand I should learn the language , yeah , yeah , learn a language that even many natives find it difficult to impossible to read or write during a lifetime , for a three week vacation , typical Thai logic !!!! The year happens to be 2009 not 1009 , most of the world speaks English to survive on the global market , the English they learn in school is attrocious , the 'Educated ' write signs in almost unintelligeable English but have too much 'Face 'to ask for help . Because of this 'Face ánd multiple other reasons , many expats have left or are in the proccess of leaving to surrounding countries that actualy want us to visit and live in , Thai have become more agressive toward aliens in both manner and deed , thier rip-off scaming has become more widespread , death of Brits is greater than in any other country , and you want to learn the Thai language , but they still believe they are number one in almost everything .

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors , you will need it , if not sooner , later .

Thanks for your thoughts, Oddball,

I'm getting less interested in learning Thai by the millisecond! What you say is, unfortunately, very true. Expats aren't valued for what we can contribute to the nation but only for our money. After reading many posts on this and another forum it seems that we're merely 'targets of opportunity' . I note how difficult it is for expats to live. Except under the most difficult of circumstances you may not work. As a non-Thai we may not own one square meter of land. Even with a permit for long term stay we are required to jump through all sorts of hoops to be in conformity with the laws which change with regularity.

In one regard I think Thailand is very much like America. EVERYONE is guilty of something at any particular time so 'they' can pick and choose who they target. The upshot, we can be fined, we can be jailed, we can be deported or all of the above at the whim of a governmental bureaucrat for almost any reason with little recourse.

Chiang Mai seems to be a target rich environment. Why to expats come to Thailand? It's not for all of the benefits Thailand provides even though the weather is nice, the food exceptional and the reality that most Thais are pretty nice people. No, that's not why we come to Thailand. In one word - it's the lovely Thai women.

Which is probably the problem as well. I suspect many Thais don't appreciate expats plundering of their 'natural resources' - but they DO like the money we bring! So perhaps it's best to rent your home. Never buy! And if you find yourself that lovely creature you want to spend the rest of your life with - perhaps the smart move is to get out of Dodge [with her] while you can!

Serendipity2

[Serendipity2]

Originally Posted by King Silk

Actually S2 there are several books on the market that make interesting and amusing reading along those lines.....A short search will turn them up. They are all on sale at Bangkok Airport.

I will try to get a thread going about this.......

King Silk,

I hope one or two were written by you! I'll have to keep an eye out for them. Always nice to find a book that will bring a chuckle or three. I don't spend a lot of time at the airport though. In fact I've not been to the new International airport - only to Don Mueng which I guess is still used but mostly for domestic travel. Looking forward to seeing the new one!

Serendipity2

[jsflynn603]

Yes, one can learn to read, write and speak Thai. And yes, there are schools, though some seem odd, they are respected (can't remember names) and the first several months (yes, months) are spent essentially listening, but not speaking. The concept is to mimic that of a very young child growing up who hears much but can say little.

I have found it exceedingly difficult to find materials to learn Thai. Transparent Language (search for it) has a computer disk with a voice analysis that truly works, though it is cumbersome. Yet here one learns phrases, questions, etc, not really "language."

Here is an example of what one runs into: "mai mai mai mai” means “new wood doesn't burn, does it? We use tone in English but not on the same scale. Though this sentence appears to be made of the same words, it is not. The structure and tonal marks and relationships inherent in the language would may one "mai" neutral, another "mai" rising at the end, a third "mai" "low" another falling at the end and even another "hi tone."

It can be learned, but it seems exceedingly hard to get started. I suggest as a jumping off point: Thai-languageXcxm and find it wonderful. It's the best translator (though you might not think so at first, hint: use the bulk translator, and then apply logic. I find it so useful that when I chat to Thai people who have limited English I frequently chat in English and with Thai-languageXcxm up in a second screen, look or a word or phrase that I need, and cut and paste it in. Thais often think that I know Thai, but I don't. When confused I'll ask my friend to "write thai" and then place it into the bulk translator and figure out some or occasionally all of what is being conveyed.

The site is totally free, they only ask that if you buy some books to please buy through them.

Most words can be "played" with a native speaker speaking it. With Open Window's flash card system you can even make flash cards that will play the sound of the letter or word.

Still, I enjoyed the "Alphabet Song," but I can say A, B, C, D... but I still am not sure which is the "name" of the letter, and which is the "sound."

Within Windows one can go to languages, add the language bar and type in Thai characters.

The site has a good forum and I think with some effort you could find a teacher to do one or two hourly lessons a week over Skype, and not pay much, perhaps $3-6/hr.

Thai is fascinating. It has more descriptive words than English, German and French combined, yet the average Thai speaker often is extremely limited. It is as though Thais get stuck with a useful vocabulary that they learned up to about 7th grade, and most never go farther.

I believe that if you can hire a tutor, to understand hot to write and read, that this is much easier than speaking. But speaking a limited vocabulary, correctly I think will afford you quite a lot of respect and appreciation and I think it is worth it.

A fellow has a "book" (e-book) that is amazing. See EasyThaiAlphabetXcxm it is inexpensive, write him, he'll offer you the book at maybe $15, wait a few weeks and he'll have a "special" at maybe $5. It's quite neat and very useful I think to understad the alphabet. It also includes "rules" for rules tell you "which mai" the mai you see is... is it the rising or falling, high or low mai? Is the word new, or wood, or burn? Marks, and placement of surrounding letters or marks tell you and these rules are essential. He makes it remarkably easy.

I'd start with his book, and perusal of thai-langugeXcxm and possibly a disk for about $40 from Transparent, play with that, and then use the forum to find an hourly teacher. Then come to Thailand and study it is a school.

[KhwaamLap]

Agree with most of what jsflynn603 said - I use Thai-Language.com too, it is brilliant and easily the best translator out there - it has a limited set of lessons too. Though I wouldn't say you would run into "mai mai mai mai” or several other Thai tongue twisters, no Thai would say this either in general chat - its a clumsy way to say it - it is, as I said, a famous Thai tongue twister.

One way to help learn is to go to a Thai Temple in your home country (States for you) - they nearly always have free (or nominal) Thai lessons there - you don't have to be a Buddhist or a Thai (my Mrs used to teach at one in the UK for a while - free).

I can understand much more Thai than I can speak - but I am also learning to read. I know the Thai alphabet and vowels and many of the rules. Thai isn't actually so hard to read once you get past the amount of letters (44 consonants and loads of vowels) and the basic rules as to classes, live/dead endings and tone marks - almost everything is spoken as written, so if you can read, then you can pronounce properly.

Most words are single syllable (there are lots of compound words, but these usually can be broken into single syllable words too), so you can break the sentance up quite easily once you learn the rules. Words always begin with a consonant (though second letter vowels can appear on the left of the initial consonant - don't worry there are few of them and they are easily learned) - a speacial consonant is used for words that being with a vowel sound (called a 'zero' in some books - basically its a consonant with no sound). Ironically the word อ่าม Ahn (meaning to read) is one such word

You can get kids reading books that break the words up and start with simple words to help learn the alphabet (words like uncle, grandfather, crow, come, etc are used). Don't worry too much with the full names of the letters (after all you don't need to know that 'P' is 'Pee' to read 'Peter') - just concentrate on their initial and final sounds. Once this is done, try and earn their classes (High/Middle/Low). Then some basic vowels and you are off to a running start. Use the above website to look up any words in these books you don't understand and you will be building your volcab at the same time - they repeat a lot, so you will learn them.

When you get here later this year, I'll give you a Thai spelling test

[Serendipity2]

KhwaamLap,

Have you ever tried Rosetta Stone to learn Thai? They advertise it a lot here in the states as THE way to learn a new language. I wonder how effective it is.

[KhwaamLap]

Originally Posted by Serendipity2

KhwaamLap,

Have you ever tried Rosetta Stone to learn Thai? They advertise it a lot here in the states as THE way to learn a new language. I wonder how effective it is.

Actually I have. I think its a good system to learn a language that has the same script as ours, but is very difficult with something like Thai. It is mostly pictures with phrases underneath and you click on the correct picture to match what is said. For example one of them was: The boy sits in the plane. They computer says in Thai "The boy sits in the plane" and the pictures show and boy under a plan, in a car, in a plane and on a car bonnet. The correct Thai text is also under each one. So you click on the third picture and get it right. This helped with recognising the spoken Thai (through trial and error), but the script would still be squiggles.

Its also very expensive.

There is this web site - which is (was) free: http://learn-thai-podcast.com

[Serendipity2]

Originally Posted by KhwaamLap

Actually I have. I think its a good system to learn a language that has the same script as ours, but is very difficult with something like Thai. It is mostly pictures with phrases underneath and you click on the correct picture to match what is said. For example one of them was: The boy sits in the plane. They computer says in Thai "The boy sits in the plane" and the pictures show and boy under a plan, in a car, in a plane and on a car bonnet. The correct Thai text is also under each one. So you click on the third picture and get it right. This helped with recognising the spoken Thai (through trial and error), but the script would still be squiggles.

Its also very expensive.

There is this web site - which is (was) free: http://learn-thai-podcast.com

So that "free" trial disk is just a come-on? Much the same as "The PC Doctor" who "gives" a free disk for e-Bay but you have to pay $6.95 for shipping and handling. I ended up getting my "free" disk and found it next to useless. It went into the garbage quickly. The latter is a scam and most of their sales are the shipping and handling we pay to get that "free" disk to learn all about e-Bay. :/

[KhwaamLap]

Originally Posted by Serendipity2

So that "free" trial disk is just a come-on? Much the same as "The PC Doctor" who "gives" a free disk for e-Bay but you have to pay $6.95 for shipping and handling. I ended up getting my "free" disk and found it next to useless. It went into the garbage quickly. The latter is a scam and most of their sales are the shipping and handling we pay to get that "free" disk to learn all about e-Bay. :/

Nah, most of the vids etc are free online - they just also have a 'premium' service where you can get it all (and more I guess) on CD if you pay.

[jsflynn603]

Alas, the only and closes temple to me is well over an hour away and in Boston, so I'd be taking my life in my hands to try to drive there.... Boston traffic is horrid. For some though this would be ideal.

Good point KwaamLap, that the language is monosyllabic (even long words) and though the rules seem hard at first, they are very definitive and oven time all come together. It this aspect I think Thai is easier than English, though actually correctly pronouncing the words verbally with the precise tone and sound (even if you know if the tone is rising, or hi) seemn hard...

I was struck by the ease that one can learn the rules and the sounds with that little e-book that I mentioned, I really do think it is very useful and the way it is presented it sort of sticks in your mind. I wonder if the site would let the fellow put an image of one page here?