property ownership???

[Serendipity2]

Originally Posted by tamsin

Yes I'd forgotten to add the prenup part, which is, surprisingly, enforceable here. And of course you can have the house in your name. And so it would be stalemate if the wife wanted to cash out. She having the land, you the house, and would make things very difficult for her, unless she bumped you off. And of course a chunk of change could very well see her off the property (if she wanted a chunk of change to sign a prenup, I suggest you cancel the wedding ...) But all in all, weighing it all up, I've seen a zillion problems with having the title in the wife's name, a lot of hassle, 'will they won't they extend the 30 year lease', or worse, it all goes south if the landlord dies. BUT never seen anything bad happen with the company route. The FBA thing was a sledgehammer to crack a nut, and we all know who the nut is. Talk about locking the stable door after the horse's bolted ...

Tamsin,

I would agree that if she brought up the idea of receiving a sum of money for signing the prenup it's probably best to run - fast!

What I'm suggesting is that the expat make the offer. If she refuses and makes no fuss then you've probably got a real keeper or a heck of an actress. If she agrees to receiving money for signing the prenup when you bring up the subject then I would think of it as an insurance policy. You're just paying a modest sum to protect your other assets. But again, that's for the expat to initiate - not his intended. If the latter then you've likely got a gold digger and the blossom will soon lose it's beauty.

Lets face it, not too many expats in their 20's, 30's or 40's are coming to Thailand to retire. Most are in their 50's and 60's. What they have is pretty much all they will have in terms of wealth and income SO they should be careful and protect that income. The majority of expats coming to Thailand to retire want that Thai beauty or they could have stayed in their homeland and married an over-weight American [or European] "beauty". Those with a bit more wisdom look for something less exotic and more dependable - as has been mentioned by others. Chose your bride carefully but. When you do, treat her like a princess - and expect to be treated like a king in return.

Serendipity2

[blueyonder27]

Before we get into the whys and wherefores of land ownership and cars etc ask yourselves how did you meet your Thai lady and if she has come through the aprenticeship of Pattaya, Phucket,and Bangkok., procede with caution with a Thai lawyer at your side. A word of caution however, be alert the lawyer is not infact making himself the beneficiary.


There are many sources of information on Thai ladies., but if you meet one in one of the villages who has a job albeit cutting sugar cane, then you can be reasonably sure she has feelings for you and the amount of money she needs will be small.

I met my wife though a bad experience with a bar girl, and in fact it was her sister who introduced me to my wife who is a hairdresser in a village a few miles from Phitsanulok.

My point is, you fall in love, you marry and there after should you divorce everything 50%. I love my wife and the house land, car etc is in her name.Have faith in love

[tamsin]

Originally Posted by Serendipity2

Tamsin,

I would agree that if she brought up the idea of receiving a sum of money for signing the prenup it's probably best to run - fast!

What I'm suggesting is that the expat make the offer. If she refuses and makes no fuss then you've probably got a real keeper or a heck of an actress. If she agrees to receiving money for signing the prenup when you bring up the subject then I would think of it as an insurance policy. You're just paying a modest sum to protect your other assets. But again, that's for the expat to initiate - not his intended. If the latter then you've likely got a gold digger and the blossom will soon lose it's beauty.

Lets face it, not too many expats in their 20's, 30's or 40's are coming to Thailand to retire. Most are in their 50's and 60's. What they have is pretty much all they will have in terms of wealth and income SO they should be careful and protect that income. The majority of expats coming to Thailand to retire want that Thai beauty or they could have stayed in their homeland and married an over-weight American [or European] "beauty". Those with a bit more wisdom look for something less exotic and more dependable - as has been mentioned by others. Chose your bride carefully but. When you do, treat her like a princess - and expect to be treated like a king in return.

Serendipity2

Uh. Where to start. First of all the prenup. Would you ask for a prenup if marrying in your home country? Most would say no, unless they are from the US. Although asking for a prenup here in Thailand is, I would say, pretty sensible. Although having said that, as has already been stated, assets prior to the marriage are yours anyway and not divisible, and the house/land thing's already been covered.

But, and I quote, "the majority of expats coming to Thailand to retire want that Thai beauty". What 'beauty' Thai or otherwise would want to take up with some aging lothario if it were not for the money? Seriously? Your all OLD here when you get past 30. What do you think they think of you when you hit 50, 60 and er, 70?

You'll save yourself a lot of trouble by either picking someone closer to your age (although that's not always a guarantee you won't be whacked), or just paying by the day. Or night.

By the by. Does get a tad tiring when all caucasian women are described as being 'overweight' you know. And the word 'beauty' in quotes suggests all caucasian women are ugly too. What about you? Balding, potbellied and wrinkly. Surely it must have occurred to at least some of you that the reason most old men are here is because their caucasian wives got heartily sick of them and gave them the bum's rush.

[Serendipity2]

tamsin,

ALL Caucasian women aren't fat and unattractive - just most of them. I'm referring to American women of course. And unfortunately most come with 9 yards of attitude. A lot more men are NOT over-weight and are in reasonably fit condition. Yes, there are the exceptions but the average "Joe sixpack" isn't coming to Thailand except maybe on holiday.

I suspect [but don't know] that the average difference between expat men and Thai women is probably closer to 40 years than 20. Few men "retire" under 50 and most are in their mid to late 50's and early 60's. Using an average of 60 and the average Thai bride of say 22 is a difference of 38 years. Many are men older, some are younger but not by much. In the end, though, what you or I think, feel or believe is irrelevant. The men come to Thailand to enjoy a better life, free of American societal hangups with regard to sex and dating/marrying younger women. In Thailand a younger woman can find a very satisfactory relationship with an older man where both are happy. Why not? And it's not just expat men seeking to meet and marry Thai women. I've a British friend living in Bangkok married for over 30 years to a Thai man. They have an excellent business [travel] and they're happy and have two lovely daughters - both all grown up and married. So it's not just expat men but also expat women. Again, why not?

That said, you seem to have a somewhat low regard for expat men wanting to enjoy their lives in Thailand and finding that special someone. Life is a two way street where each gets something that they want - where's the harm?

Serendipity2

[oddball]

Originally Posted by Serendipity2

tamsin,

ALL Caucasian women aren't fat and unattractive - just most of them. I'm referring to American women of course. And unfortunately most come with 9 yards of attitude. A lot more men are NOT over-weight and are in reasonably fit condition. Yes, there are the exceptions but the average "Joe sixpack" isn't coming to Thailand except maybe on holiday.

I suspect [but don't know] that the average difference between expat men and Thai women is probably closer to 40 years than 20. Few men "retire" under 50 and most are in their mid to late 50's and early 60's. Using an average of 60 and the average Thai bride of say 22 is a difference of 38 years. Many are men older, some are younger but not by much. In the end, though, what you or I think, feel or believe is irrelevant. The men come to Thailand to enjoy a better life, free of American societal hangups with regard to sex and dating/marrying younger women. In Thailand a younger woman can find a very satisfactory relationship with an older man where both are happy. Why not? And it's not just expat men seeking to meet and marry Thai women. I've a British friend living in Bangkok married for over 30 years to a Thai man. They have an excellent business [travel] and they're happy and have two lovely daughters - both all grown up and married. So it's not just expat men but also expat women. Again, why not?

That said, you seem to have a somewhat low regard for expat men wanting to enjoy their lives in Thailand and finding that special someone. Life is a two way street where each gets something that they want - where's the harm?

Serendipity2

Sounds fine in theory , fact usually turns into a one way street at best , but far too often , a cul-de-sac , or a lesson in 'Terminology " , read , read and read more in the history of Thai Visa , "MY eyes are wide open ".

[King Silk]

Yes Tammy, I am a bit doubtful when it comes to marriage having had a few previously!
What's the point of getting married here anyway?

No more. That's it now.........

[KhwaamLap]

Not sure I agree the 'average age of 40 years' mentioned above- please remember not every farang here is a retiree. I know many mixed couples, and only 1 has such a large age gap (he is about 80 and she in her 40s - married for over a decade). The rest have more standard age gaps - I am 7 years older then my wife of 11 years (two kids) and most of my mixed friends are either simular or even closer in age.

Many farangs working here meet with girls in their place of work and are similar in age- as they would be in the West. Now, those that find there wives in catalogues or whilst on a whoring holiday, then I guess there is likely to be a bigger age gap.

As to home ownership, most people I know rent - its safer and easier to move and regrade. Rents are often cheaper than a mortgage here and houses are not the investment they used to be in the west (other than certain places - even then as an investment the west - until recently - was still a better one).

USUSFRUCTs is the 'legit' way to go - no rent setup,no dodgy company (with half a dozen sleeping Thai directors/shareholders) that breaks the rules and,although unlikely to be in danger of a crack down, may be at risk from a local property investor with good contacts that likes the plot!

I rent, but I have heard of people setting up USUFRUCTs on land in their wife's name and listing kidsor even relativeson the USUFRUCT this stops the danger of the USUSFRUCT being taken as part of the matrimonial estate during a divorce (as not just co-owned by husband/wife). These are also very cheap - though it is expected that the USUFRUCT is 'bought' rather than 'gifted' - talk to a lawyer that has experience in them (you pay tax on the purchasing of USUFRUCT). As they are tied to the deeds (registry office) the property can not be sold without the USUFRUCT going along with it- it also covers all produce on the land etc.

USUFRUCTs was adopted here as a mechanism to protect farmers (in particular the produce their farms produced) from greedy bank managers who 'owned' the land (under mortgage etc). So, they will never be removed - FAR TOO MANY VOTES!!!

[King Silk]

The good advice in this thread is worth a small fortune to any newbie thinking of coming here.
I just hope they take note before jumping in with both feet, as so many have.......

[Serendipity2]

Originally Posted by KhwaamLap

Not sure I agree the 'average age of 40 years' mentioned above- please remember not every farang here is a retiree. I know many mixed couples, and only 1 has such a large age gap (he is about 80 and she in her 40s - married for over a decade). The rest have more standard age gaps - I am 7 years older then my wife of 11 years (two kids) and most of my mixed friends are either simular or even closer in age.

Many farangs working here meet with girls in their place of work and are similar in age- as they would be in the West. Now, those that find there wives in catalogues or whilst on a whoring holiday, then I guess there is likely to be a bigger age gap.

As to home ownership, most people I know rent - its safer and easier to move and regrade. Rents are often cheaper than a mortgage here and houses are not the investment they used to be in the west (other than certain places - even then as an investment the west - until recently - was still a better one).

USUSFRUCTs is the 'legit' way to go - no rent setup,no dodgy company (with half a dozen sleeping Thai directors/shareholders) that breaks the rules and,although unlikely to be in danger of a crack down, may be at risk from a local property investor with good contacts that likes the plot!

I rent, but I have heard of people setting up USUFRUCTs on land in their wife's name and listing kidsor even relativeson the USUFRUCT this stops the danger of the USUSFRUCT being taken as part of the matrimonial estate during a divorce (as not just co-owned by husband/wife). These are also very cheap - though it is expected that the USUFRUCT is 'bought' rather than 'gifted' - talk to a lawyer that has experience in them (you pay tax on the purchasing of USUFRUCT). As they are tied to the deeds (registry office) the property can not be sold without the USUFRUCT going along with it- it also covers all produce on the land etc.

USUFRUCTs was adopted here as a mechanism to protect farmers (in particular the produce their farms produced) from greedy bank managers who 'owned' the land (under mortgage etc). So, they will never be removed - FAR TOO MANY VOTES!!!

Hi KhwaamLap,

Great post! I hadn't thought of expats of working age deciding to stay in Thailand and marry/raise a family. Most of the expats I've met are on holiday from the oil fields of the middle east and the only expats married to Thai women have been retirees who've "Gone Bamboo" and decided to live their lives in a foreign land. Among that list of countries the Philippines and Thailand are at the top of the list but I'm sure there are expat communities in every Asian country. Great food, lovely ladies and a good life, all in all.

Thanks for the info on USUFRUCTS. Sounds like a disease! I think most expats would like to own the land beneath their home and build a legacy for their family. But that has to be tempered by the reality that most foreign governments do not really like/want expats. We're tolerated but their is very little willingness to make our lives better. A perfect example is the monthly visa runs most end up having to make. It's costly, takes a bit of time and is stupid [my opinion] but shows how little regard a country has for the expat community. That said, when on a collision course with a super tanker the prudent thing to do is step out of the way since you're not going to change it's course. Like you, I'll rent until I have the same rights in my adopted country as those born there do - and I'm not likely to see that happen. :|

Serendipity2

[frogblogger]

Interesting, I'll look into usufruct as applied to Thailand. I've a share in a property in France where the former owners left the property to their daughter (who unfortunately died before they did) during their lifetimes, gradually, in a series of gifts. In France it's an inheritance tax avoidance move more than anything else. It gives the original owners the right to live there until they die, whenever that might be.