Montreal vs. Madrid

[markwill]

I am looking to compare how much tax I would pay if I moved from Montreal to Madrid. For simplicity, assume a canadian salary of $100k - this converts to taxes around 36% in Montreal for federal and provincial taxes (not including local govt taxes such as school tax etc.). What is the Madrid equivalent?

Of course the next question is...how much do you need to earn in Madrid to have a similar standard of living (again, assuming you earn $100k in Canada).

[DUCC]

Hola,

100K CAD equals approx 70 k Euros. There should be only little difference in the taxload. You are only liable to pay federal taxes. Favourable for the employee are his/her relatively low social security payments (20% employee/80% employers share).

Housing in Madrid is very expensive. Restaurants, fares e.g. are cheaper. 69 K Euro annually is a rather typical remunation for a middle management job in Madrid.

Saludos

[markwill]

Originally Posted by DUCC

Hola,

100K CAD equals approx 70 k Euros. There should be only little difference in the taxload. You are only liable to pay federal taxes. Favourable for the employee are his/her relatively low social security payments (20% employee/80% employers share).

Housing in Madrid is very expensive. Restaurants, fares e.g. are cheaper. 69 K Euro annually is a rather typical remunation for a middle management job in Madrid.

Saludos

Hola,

Good information - thanks. I assume that my housing would be paid (big saving). I was under the impression that in Spain the taxes are lower - more like 32%. Are you saying that a 69K Euro salary equates to the same standard of living as $100k CDN? If so, thats good news (I was expecting it to be a lot higher).

Gracias. Any other information is welcome.

Mark

[DUCC]

Hola,

Depending on Your individual situation Your tax rate might be a little bit lower than 32% but most probably not higher than 36%: During the first calender year You may not be taxed in Spain at all (but in Canada), if you settle in Spain after June 30. if Your housing will be paid in addition to Your regular salary You will pay taxes on the rent paid by Your employer. It is strongly recommended that You discuss Your individual case with the responsible spanish clerk well before Your first spanish salary is paid out to You in order to minimize Your monthly tax advances.

If You can maintain Your standard of living is also a question of Your personal livestyle an buying preferences. But on the "average person" should be able to maintain his/her standards.

Saludos

[atlast]

In any move to another country, it is hard to live exactly as you did at home. You may find that some of your favorite things are way too expensive, and that other things that are extravagances at home are inexpensive. All you can really get is an average.

[markwill]

Originally Posted by atlast

In any move to another country, it is hard to live exactly as you did at home. You may find that some of your favorite things are way too expensive, and that other things that are extravagances at home are inexpensive. All you can really get is an average.

I agree, but there is often something to compensate - lower taxes would mean that you could accept a lower base salary, the cost of living being lower menas that you don't lose purchasing power etc. Definitely I would not expect to be able to match anything but an overall average, with an untangeable "quality of life" factor based on how much you like the place. That being said, here in Montreal there are many hidden taxes, from parking meters ($1 for ten minutes in some downtown areas) to the extra 16% goods and sales taxes which you have to add on to the sticker price of everything. Municipal taxes are around $4000 on a house in a nice area such as Notre Dame des Graces, plus school taxes (up to $400), plus drivers licenses and no-fault insurance around $300 which adds to the car insurance (a Honda Civic costs around $800 to insure new).

Food shopping costs around $140 for a family of four.

I have no idea what the equivalents are in Madrid.

[sling]

Oh, some of those things sound so cheap. I pay $90 per month to insure a 2000 Hyudai Accent, and I have had two speeding tickets in my entire life (and I'm 62) and only a couple of small claims, none in years. That's US dollars, not that they are much different than Canadian any more.

No one has asked my standard question yet. Do you have an EU passport or are you being transferred or do you have some unusual skill that will get you permission to work?

[markwill]

Originally Posted by sling

Oh, some of those things sound so cheap. I pay $90 per month to insure a 2000 Hyudai Accent, and I have had two speeding tickets in my entire life (and I'm 62) and only a couple of small claims, none in years. That's US dollars, not that they are much different than Canadian any more.

No one has asked my standard question yet. Do you have an EU passport or are you being transferred or do you have some unusual skill that will get you permission to work?

I have dual nationality, as does the rest of my family. I work in the engineering community both as an engineer and as a project/subcontract manager which makes me useful to some people. I have no idea who I have to apply to in Spain to get permission to work etc. (I assume that the company that wants to hire me takes care of that, but it was one of my future questions).

Re. the prices of things - I posted the info so that people can get an idea of what it costs to live in Montreal. CUrrently a litre of gas/petrol is around $1.10, but thats only a factor if you take your car a lot. I know that the transport system is much better in Madrid than over here, so I would need a car a lot less.

Holidays are another big difference - over here you generally get betwen three to five weeks holiday (five is the max after about 30 years service) whereas in Madrid there are more (and more frequent) holidays. All of these things come into play.

[DUCC]

[quote=markwill;2984]

Hola,
here some of the requested comparisons:

- Parking 100-200 Euros monthly (highly recommended to rent a house/apartment inkl. parking)
- Food is defintely more expensive. 400-500 Euros/month for a family of four. Consumer prices always include VAT.
- Municipal taxes are considerably lower
- school taxes are unknown
- no charges on drivers licenses
- car insurances and taxes about equal]
- gasoline 20% more expensive (try to get a diesel)

Saludos
Bill

[markwill]

[quote=DUCC;3037]

Originally Posted by markwill

Hola,
here some of the requested comparisons:

- Parking 100-200 Euros monthly (highly recommended to rent a house/apartment inkl. parking)
- Food is defintely more expensive. 400-500 Euros/month for a family of four. Consumer prices always include VAT.
- Municipal taxes are considerably lower
- school taxes are unknown
- no charges on drivers licenses
- car insurances and taxes about equal]
- gasoline 20% more expensive (try to get a diesel)

Saludos
Bill

Thanks for the details. Actually the food looks to be only marginally more expensive - my price was on a "per week" basis. My feeling is that, as long as I can flip into the European tax system asap, then I'm not really going to see much of a financial difference.

A bit more info:

Comparing newspapers, the Spanish ones contain much more information and commentary (politics and sport) than the Montreal ones (which I always feel are full of empty space and badly thought-out adverts). Conversely the national tv in Canada seems to be very good (no idea how the Madrid tv is). Cars appear to cost more in Spain, but that doesn't take into account the extra taxes and charges over here, which boost the price by nearly 20% for a new car. Clothes cost less in Spain.