Assimilation issues regarding UK ex-pats in Spain

[theredlads]

Today, I had a chance to watch a documentary called "White Immigrants", which was produced by Al Jazeera English. Despite its fairly vague title, it was mainly focused on British ex-pats who left their country of birth in order to live in Spain - Britain's all-time favourite holiday destination.

However, what I saw on the programme was some pathetic ex-pats who refused interact with their new neighbours and culture. Instead, they lived an all-English life, which practically was not so different from what they had back in the UK, besides the Sun. In the little town of San Fulgencio, it was bustling with English residents talking only in English, signboards in English, and English shops only designed for English people. According to some German resident who also lived in San Fulgencio, the town was divided into two parts - the English quarter and the Spanish one. And apparently, she was the only one routinely travelling both sides, as she was working as a translator for both English and Spaniards. In other words, the English were forming almost a "ghetto" for themselves.

According to the programme, the English lived just like how they did back in England. Many of them worked for the local English newspaper - Leaders and for other English business. English mums took their toddlers to an English nursery, not a Spanish one. English kids, who had to be sent to Spanish schools were not interacting so much with their Spanish classmates because of their language skills.

Many say that the Americans are the worst linguists of all time, but I think that the English come to a close second. Many English ex-pats, one of which claimed to have lived in Spain for 11 years, could not even count to 10 in Spanish. Many stuttered and some could not even complete the task. As a result, the ex-pats were only speaking English at all occasions, even when meeting the mayor for important discussions. To be honest, I can't imagine an Asian man coming up to Boris Johnson, only to talk to him in Bengal. Clearly, this was not a right thing to do.

The problem for these ex-pats who refused to interact with the Spanish community was that they expected the Spaniards to "embrace them". I think there is an attitude issue here. If they feel like "adventuring" to eat in Spanish restaurants and refuse to attend local-held events (only to hold an All-English 60's Disco Party), how on earth could the Spaniards embrace these ex-pats roaming around their ghetto?

They seem to expect the Spaniard to speak good English and understand English culture they bring into Spain. When a local candidate spoke to ex-pat mothers in good English as a part of his election campaign, not a single mother could go up to him and say "gracias, senor". But instead, they said "thank you" in a monotonic voice, like they expected him to do such favour. With such an apathetic attitude, these ex-pats will not be considered proper members of the community no matter how many years they lived under the Sun.

However, I understand that not all ex-pats live in such ghettos. I am an ex-pat myself, and moved to America in Summer of 2005. I know how difficult it is to live in a completely new environment, especially in a county whose national language is not English. I don't expect them to cut off all connections (emotional and social) from their country of birth. I occasionally visit the local pub (which serves fish tacos) and catch some games of "football" every week. It is okay to keep in touch with English culture and friends when you are living abroad. I do it and everyone does it.

But, I think the least you should do is to respect your local community and its culture, whether similar to English culture or completely different. You should learn its language to a point that you don't need a translator to see a doctor. You should visit their theatres, watch their movies, listen to their music and eat or even cook their food. Honestly, what is the point of living in Spain if you could have moved to Australia, where you don't need to try so hard to assimilate? Besides that Spain is a lot closer to England, I don't see any point.

Last but not least, I think we all have some double standards. We expect the immigrants coming into UK to fully assimilate to British society and culture. But if we don't do it ourselves when we are abroad, then our expectation would become something laughable - which will eventually make British culture something ignorable at home. I think it's especially important that younger people make a change in their lifestyle a.s.a.p as older immigrants may find it more difficult to adapt to their new environment.

So come on, if I could speak better Spanish than you by working with Hispanic patients (I haven't driven down to Mexico....yet), then you have a problem. Be nice to your neighbours, interact with them a lot, but don't forget your British roots.

James K.,
from Malibu, California

[Bevdeforges]

Excellent post, James!

The very same problem exists in France and probably in most countries where there are large numbers of anglophone expats. The reason you don't see this as often with the Americans overseas is probably simply because there aren't nearly as many of them.

I'm American by origin and initially got involved with a number of "American expat groups" here in France. What turned me off about them was the long-lasting focus on the issues "back home" even after many of them had lived here for 20 or 30 years. (Though I must say the US culture encourages this by their policies on voting and taxing citizens resident overseas.)

And the Amis (as the Germans call them) have the same problem as the Brits - they expect immigrants in the US to adapt to local ways and speak flawless English without doing the same themselves in a foreign culture. (The ones who adapt successfully you never notice.)
Cheers,
Bev

[jojo]

excellent post. I agree that when immigrants go to the UK I expect them to intergrate and "become" British - in fact I used to wonder why they were there if all they wanted to do was turn a piece of the UK into their own country. Its the same here and I desperately want to be Spanish and intergrate, I came here cos I didnt like the UK, I dont want to be in "The UK in the sun". Brits can be so arrogant sometimes cant they!

Jo

[chris(madrid)]

I think you'll find the TRUTH is somewhere in-between though. "Al Jazeera" is not ENTIRELY pro-British - and some Brits are not exactly Pro-Arab. I can imagine the reason behind it - Some TV report talking about Ghettos in the UK?

I know Brits here that after 11 years are still mono linguistic - Also Germans and French - even Swiss. I've seen Turks in Germany unable to speak German despite having worked for BAYER 25years! - ditto Iraquis/Iranies.

It's not a PURELY English thing. It's a visible issue in the English speaking peoples though. Why? - because info is generally plentiful and available (NOT censored). It's especially visible in Spain too. But equally I've seen Spaniards bunch together in other countries - it's a NATURAL response to discomfort. I still shudder thinking of the SPANISH club next to BAYER. If folk thought that was Spain - nobody would EVER want to integrate with Spaniards.

My view of things has always been that if I MIGRATE to somewhere - Then I'm obliged to integrate. The "Ex-Pat" mindset to me suggests quite the opposite of the dictionary definition. it seems to symbolise a reluctance to let go.

I freely admit that I prefer to watch ENGLISH films in the original language. but the same applies to Spanish or German films. Too much gets lost in translation. But I watch Spanish TV (the little TV I watch) and cant be bothered with SKY etc.

[chris(madrid)]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

And the Amis (as the Germans call them) have the same problem as the Brits - they expect immigrants in the US to adapt to local ways and speak flawless English without doing the same themselves in a foreign culture. (The ones who adapt successfully you never notice.)Bev

I have a rather amusing anecdote from the US (Georgetown-DC) - where I was asked if I spoke English as I could not make head or tail of the question being directed to me. My response "Yes -but quite honestly, I'm unsure whether you do" in a most BBC-WORLD-SERVICE voice was met with genuine confusion. Out shot a guy from the kitchen - and the question resolved - "Did I wish mayonnaise"?

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by chris(madrid)

I have a rather amusing anecdote from the US (Georgetown-DC) - where I was asked if I spoke English as I could not make head or tail of the question being directed to me. My response "Yes -but quite honestly, I'm unsure whether you do" in a most BBC-WORLD-SERVICE voice was met with genuine confusion. Out shot a guy from the kitchen - and the question resolved - "Did I wish mayonnaise"?

I can counter with a similar tale. When I was working in the plant in Germany, I was very nearly the only English speaker in the plant, so I always got to meet with anyone visiting from the home office in the US or the divisional office in the UK.

A bunch of engineers from the US were over, studying our production methods and they found refuge in my office. I was lectured for some time about how "things will be much better" when "you" deregulate your phone companies and the other utilities in Germany. Then they complimented me on how well I spoke English. It apparently never crossed their minds that I might be "one of them."

BTW, my British friends also used to tell me that I "spoke English pretty well for an American."
Cheers,
Bev

[chris(madrid)]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

"spoke English pretty well for an American."

Well explain to them it's "Spoak Inglish purdy well (or reel gud) fer a 'mercan".

How anybody can mistake my accent for ANYTHING other than (ever so) British defeats me. I did get to being accused of being Dutch speaking German - but here - I'm instantly discernible as "Anglo-Guiri".

One cant go totally "native", after all - simply wouldn't be cricket.

[El Capitan]

You are not entirely wrong James K but just the other day we landed at Gatwick airport after a long haul and wished a shower to freshen up before our next flight. The showers are managed by a company who you have to call over a telephone link and then someone shows up. First a lady who could understand us quite well but her colleague, literally could not understand fairly simple English. There are places in the UK where you jump on a bus and find the driver is unable at all to converse in English language. There also places where, if you have to investigate something on a door to door basis as in law enforcement, you find also these non-english speaking ghettos.

Where I will agree with you and also add something is that many of us live in mixed culture society. Not only should we respect the views, languages and cultures of others but to encourage communication in whatever language we are speaking, we should really try and speak more slowly and clearly than we might have used to in a mono-lingual society. When I speak Spanish with a spaniard, as soon as he/she finds I can speak a little, they fall into their ultra-rapid-no-break-for-breath lingo and I just have to ask again and again for them to slow down.

[crookesey]

Originally Posted by El Capitan

You are not entirely wrong James K but just the other day we landed at Gatwick airport after a long haul and wished a shower to freshen up before our next flight. The showers are managed by a company who you have to call over a telephone link and then someone shows up. First a lady who could understand us quite well but her colleague, literally could not understand fairly simple English. There are places in the UK where you jump on a bus and find the driver is unable at all to converse in English language. There also places where, if you have to investigate something on a door to door basis as in law enforcement, you find also these non-english speaking ghettos.

Where I will agree with you and also add something is that many of us live in mixed culture society. Not only should we respect the views, languages and cultures of others but to encourage communication in whatever language we are speaking, we should really try and speak more slowly and clearly than we might have used to in a mono-lingual society. When I speak Spanish with a spaniard, as soon as he/she finds I can speak a little, they fall into their ultra-rapid-no-break-for-breath lingo and I just have to ask again and again for them to slow down.

And if the driver is unable to speak English he/she is very unlikely to be able to read written Englsh, road signs come to mind. Cambio de Sentido signs in Spain taught me that you need the basics at the very least.

[rjnpenang]

And if we had all intergrated we would´nt need Expatforum, BTW, I agree with Chris, its just the English, I can take you into Finnish, Danish ghettoes here on the Costa del Sol, Is the problem because English is the second widely spoken language on the planet?. If Finnish was more widely spoken would we complaning about them?.