Employment situation for young people

[Pesky Wesky]

Another short article which should leave in absolute no doubt as to how bad the unemployment situation is here for young people
Youth unemployment: Young and jobless | The Economist

You might be interested to know that 15.3% of Spain’s young people between the ages of 16 and 24 neither work nor study. After Italy (15.9%) this is the second highest level of so called ninis in Europe.

And what are ninis??
Los que ni trabajan ni estudian
Those that neither work nor study

Originally Posted by Pesky Wesky

Another short article which should leave in absolute no doubt as to how bad the unemployment situation is here for young people
Youth unemployment: Young and jobless | The Economist

You might be interested to know that 15.3% of Spain’s young people between the ages of 16 and 24 neither work nor study. After Italy (15.9%) this is the second highest level of so called ninis in Europe.

And what are ninis??
Los que ni trabajan ni estudian
Those that neither work nor study

I sort of wonder what role family plays in this. I've found that when I mention the "tough love" attitude of many American parents, in terms of "you're 16, go work at Pizza Hut" and "you're 18 and not in uni, go find yourself an apartment and pay for it yourself," people here are positively shocked.

Additionally, at what age can you legally work here? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it only easy to begin working once you're 18? And how many middle class parents (this might be a regional thing) are willing to tell their children to go pick up an application at the local fast food joint/bar/supermarket?

After all, why even try for a job when you're comfortable at home with mom and dad? The Cantabrian government, a year or two ago, was actively marketing financial help for young people to leave home. And, if I remember correctly, this grant was given even to young 30-somethings.

I get the feeling that my parenting skills may be questioned in the future. However, as someone who at 16 began living away from home and at 25 is living abroad, it's going to be hard to NOT tell my future kid(s) that they ought to find their feet as soon as they can.

[nigele2]

Halydia you're a hard nut

However I think you raise a very interesting point but it should not deflect from the disaster that is Spanish youth unemployment.

When an economy is sound you can throw your children to the wolves knowing that you have equipped them well and that they have a fighting chance. However throwing your children into a failed economy with no possibility of survival is another thing.

In most areas of Spain there are not food outlets begging for staff. If by chance you get into a temporary job you will be treated like sh*t. Without some certainty of further employment you would have to be crazy to take on rent and living cost commitments.

But ....

I believe the spanish family structure (despites Pesky's doubts) are influenced by the Franco years and the hard vicious past. You can change the rules overnight but you cannot change the prejudices and the fears. In my family in Madrid two of the four generations lived under Franco. Those generations influence the younger generations.

When I first experienced Spanish family life close up I was surprised by the lack of fight in the people. Why they didn't rebel. Why as you suggest they didn't get off their backsides and change things (on all levels). But after a while, a fair while, I started to see how these people carry the scars of the past.

But I also saw that much of what frustrated me was also much of what endeared me to them . The traditions are important to them. The family comes first. They had more that pleased them that didn't cost money (than I had in England). I found they invited me in, they shared, they were generous, ............

I now see that for them it is not easy to change what is bad. And it is dangerous to expect them to react as us who arrive from rich countries.

My youth had security. We lived in a council house. My parents weren't rich. But for me wanting a part time job from the age of 14 was always easily achieved even living in a small village. When I was a student I could afford to live away from home. I could get holiday jobs easily. And once I finished education (I skipped UNI so no degree) I had a pick of jobs. By the age of 23 I could buy a flat in south London.

My wife in Seville started work () at the age of 14. Even with the corrupt privileges of a father who was Guardia Civil life was so tough they moved to Madrid (family of 4) on a Vespa and side car. My wife's father tried to commit suicide when he couldn't put food on the table.

O so different; how we ever got it together heaven knows

Don't get me wrong I still get frustrated with them but I now understand better why they might find your post lacks understanding (appreciating that was not your intention).

I believe the age you can start working is 16 with some restrictions for night working until you are 18.

Halydia do your spanish family think along the lines of your post? I'd be fascinated by any insight.

[gus-lopez]

Originally Posted by nigele2

Halydia you're a hard nut

However I think you raise a very interesting point but it should not deflect from the disaster that is Spanish youth unemployment.

When an economy is sound you can throw your children to the wolves knowing that you have equipped them well and that they have a fighting chance. However throwing your children into a failed economy with no possibility of survival is another thing.

In most areas of Spain there are not food outlets begging for staff. If by chance you get into a temporary job you will be treated like sh*t. Without some certainty of further employment you would have to be crazy to take on rent and living cost commitments.

But ....

I believe the spanish family structure (despites Pesky's doubts) are influenced by the Franco years and the hard vicious past. You can change the rules overnight but you cannot change the prejudices and the fears. In my family in Madrid two of the four generations lived under Franco. Those generations influence the younger generations.

When I first experienced Spanish family life close up I was surprised by the lack of fight in the people. Why they didn't rebel. Why as you suggest they didn't get off their backsides and change things (on all levels). But after a while, a fair while, I started to see how these people carry the scars of the past.

But I also saw that much of what frustrated me was also much of what endeared me to them . The traditions are important to them. The family comes first. They had more that pleased them that didn't cost money (than I had in England). I found they invited me in, they shared, they were generous, ............

I now see that for them it is not easy to change what is bad. And it is dangerous to expect them to react as us who arrive from rich countries.

My youth had security. We lived in a council house. My parents weren't rich. But for me wanting a part time job from the age of 14 was always easily achieved even living in a small village. When I was a student I could afford to live away from home. I could get holiday jobs easily. And once I finished education (I skipped UNI so no degree) I had a pick of jobs. By the age of 23 I could buy a flat in south London.

My wife in Seville started work () at the age of 14. Even with the corrupt privileges of a father who was Guardia Civil life was so tough they moved to Madrid (family of 4) on a Vespa and side car. My wife's father tried to commit suicide when he couldn't put food on the table.

O so different; how we ever got it together heaven knows

Don't get me wrong I still get frustrated with them but I now understand better why they might find your post lacks understanding (appreciating that was not your intention).

I believe the age you can start working is 16 with some restrictions for night working until you are 18.

Halydia do your spanish family think along the lines of your post? I'd be fascinated by any insight.

Excellent post .

[mrypg9]

Originally Posted by halydia

I get the feeling that my parenting skills may be questioned in the future. However, as someone who at 16 began living away from home and at 25 is living abroad, it's going to be hard to NOT tell my future kid(s) that they ought to find their feet as soon as they can.

Well, I for one wouldn't question your parenting skills as they sound remarkably similar to mine. When my son had his fourteenth birthday I presented him with a Black and Decker tool kit and told him that he had to use it henceforth to earn his pocket money. I threw him out of the house when he was eighteen and that afternoon took a pickaxe to his bedroom wall and demolished it to enlarge our living room. OK, so he went to live with his father in London as planned and went to University but he had to pay his way and did so by working at every opportunity.
I was constantly told by 'progressive' minded friends that he would raise the proverbial finger at me when he became an adult but nothing could be further from the truth. He has grown into a professionally successful adult with a happy family life and our relationship is strong and, importantly for me, based on mutual respect.
My grandson from his first marriage will this week come into possession of a trust fund set up for him by his late grandparents. He will be able to buy a house or apartment and a decent car...at the age of eighteen. To me this is profoundly wrong.
When I spoke to friends in Prague about my feelings on this they were shocked. It's usual for parents there to support their children well into their thirties. One result of this imo is a society where people are short on independence and extremely risk averse.
There are some similarities between the experiences of Spain and the CR. Both had decades of dictatorship where personal initiative was discouraged. Living standards were poor in each state - although I believe Spain suffered more and for longer. For various factors, both economic and social, the family became extremely important, both as a place of economic support and also as a place where trust could reign.
I don't know what the situation is in Spain but there is a growing gap between the generations in the CR. For decades old men were in charge....now the young are aggressively thrusting forward and spearheading change.
Both you and I have our roots in countries where individualism and personal autonomy are part of our innate belief system. We have developed civil societies and our system works on trust. That is not universally so, even in Europe. (Have you read 'The European Dream' by Jeremy Rifkind?...Interesting but dated..)
My Czech friend was aghast when she was told that our business customers were mainly account clients who paid within the usual thirty, sixty or ninety days. Inconceivable in the CR where cash upfront is the norm, even for large transactions.
On this issue I agree with Nigel. Our cultural and historical background is significantly different to that of many other Europeans and Americans.
We are all currently subject to the vagaries of the bond markets but each EU state will find its unique problems exacerbated by the common curse.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by halydia

I sort of wonder what role family plays in this. I've found that when I mention the "tough love" attitude of many American parents, in terms of "you're 16, go work at Pizza Hut" and "you're 18 and not in uni, go find yourself an apartment and pay for it yourself," people here are positively shocked.

Additionally, at what age can you legally work here? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it only easy to begin working once you're 18? And how many middle class parents (this might be a regional thing) are willing to tell their children to go pick up an application at the local fast food joint/bar/supermarket?

After all, why even try for a job when you're comfortable at home with mom and dad? The Cantabrian government, a year or two ago, was actively marketing financial help for young people to leave home. And, if I remember correctly, this grant was given even to young 30-somethings.

I get the feeling that my parenting skills may be questioned in the future. However, as someone who at 16 began living away from home and at 25 is living abroad, it's going to be hard to NOT tell my future kid(s) that they ought to find their feet as soon as they can.

I was very strict on this when my grown up daughters first left full time education. Get a job, pay me rent or leave! My eldest (at 19yo) was horrified, she didnt want to get a job after she left college, she wanted to have a year out before having to look for work! Afterall, why should she pay to live in her own home??? Er.... we have to pay a mortgage to live there! In the end and after many ultimatums, I put all her belongins on the road outside of the house and she defiantly moved into a friends house! A couple of weeks later , the friends mum phoned me and asked me to contribute to my daughters keep, I declined and the mother thought I was evil and told me so, however, my daughter left there, came home and I took her to the unemployment office - which filled her with dread "I'm not going in there, its full of scum" she said! Anyway, she ran off and within an hour had a job in a local clothes shop!! Once she was settled, she then got herself a good job with an airline!!! I'm very proud of her now and she is of herself!!!

The role of a parent isnt just to bring up babies, its to bring up responsible adults!

Jo xxxx

[mrypg9]

Originally Posted by jojo

I was very strict on this when my grown up daughters first left full time education. Get a job, pay me rent or leave! My eldest (at 19yo) was horrified, she didnt want to get a job after she left college, she wanted to have a year out before having to look for work! Afterall, why should she pay to live in her own home??? Er.... we have to pay a mortgage to live there! In the end and after many ultimatums, I put all her belongins on the road outside of the house and she defiantly moved into a friends house! A couple of weeks later , the friends mum phoned me and asked me to contribute to my daughters keep, I declined and the mother thought I was evil and told me so, however, my daughter left there, came home and I took her to the unemployment office - which filled her with dread "I'm not going in there, its full of scum" she said! Anyway, she ran off and within an hour had a job in a local clothes shop!! Once she was settled, she then got herself a good job with an airline!!! I'm very proud of her now and she is of herself!!!

The role of a parent isnt just to bring up babies, its to bring up responsible adults!

Jo xxxx

A woman after me own 'eart

[Hepa]

There is a very simple solution,

Don't breed!!

Hepa

[mrypg9]

Originally Posted by Hepa

There is a very simple solution,

Don't breed!!

Hepa

But who will fund our pensions?

[Hepa]

Originally Posted by mrypg9

But who will fund our pensions?

I funded my own.