Why...some of us stay and others go?

There is much “Spaniard bashing” on this site. And most of the critics correspond to the truth. But as Pesky Wesky did write me in private message, we sometime have a tendency to generalize. I agree that this is a bad thing in every domain. It provokes discrimination, racism and many other negative human behaviors. I personally think that the problem in Spain is that most expats come from northern countries, which are very different from the Mediterranean’s. So considering this fact, we are actually the problem! A friend, also expat in Spain, told me once “Europe stops at the Pyrenees”. Spanish mentality is much closer to the South American one (in good and in bad) as to the northern European. So, considering this other fact, it is normal that expats from England, Switzerland, Germany, Netherlands and Scandinavia are sometime disturbed by the remaining third world aspects of Spain. Especially considering that Spain, during many years, did receive high amounts of money in help from the E.U. and is not a cheap country to live anymore (Germany for example has a cheaper cost of living and higher salaries).

So there is left: The beauty of the country, the more relaxed life style (for those who have enough money…), fruits, vegetables, beaches, swimming pools and of course the good climate. But, as the number of foreigners who leave Spain every year proves, this seems to not be enough. So you could ask me, why I stay here? For all the reasons written before, because my wife and my child are Asian and there is more xenophobia in Switzerland (my home country) as in Spain. And last but not least because Switzerland has one of the highest costs of living in the world. So, considering all the + and – for a family who does not need to work for a living, we are better off in Spain, despite being critic to many things over here.
Sorry if my English is not so good, but my native languages are German and French

[jojo]

Is there much/any Spanish bashing on here????? I havent noticed!

Anyway I love the "third worldness" of Spain, I love the lack of order, both natural and manmade. I stay here because I like the climate, the views, the smells, the palm trees, the people, the relaxed lifestyle...... The whole package and all the things that make it different from England. Thats not to say I dont appreicate what the UK has, cos having lived away from it for a few years, I can now see the benefits of living there. But to me the grey, small and claustrophic feeling one gets in the UK are nothing compared to being in Spain.

However, there is no doubt that the UK looks after its people - too well sometimes and it has to be said that coming to Spain to live is not the easy option and its not like an extended holiday in the sun

Jo xxx

Originally Posted by jojo

Is there much/any Spanish bashing on here????? I havent noticed!

Anyway I love the "third worldness" of Spain, I love the lack of order, both natural and manmade. I stay here because I like the climate, the views, the smells, the palm trees, the people, the relaxed lifestyle...... The whole package and all the things that make it different from England. Thats not to say I dont appreicate what the UK has, cos having lived away from it for a few years, I can now see the benefits of living there. But to me the grey, small and claustrophic feeling one gets in the UK are nothing compared to being in Spain.

However, there is no doubt that the UK looks after its people - too well sometimes and it has to be said that coming to Spain to live is not the easy option and its not like an extended holiday in the sun

Jo xxx

Jojo, yes there is "Spanish bashing" here, at least what I understand under this words. I could go in to details and citations, but I think it is not necessary.

[Alcalaina]

Culture shock works both ways. I know Spanish people who have lived in England and are horrified by certain aspects of English culture - for example, when grandparents stay at home to babysit the children while the parents go out for a meal, whereas in Spain the whole family will go out together. And when the grandparents get too old to be useful, they are put into a residential home rather than coming to live with the rest of the family.

Jo, I completely agree with you up to the last sentence "there is no doubt that the UK looks after its people" - with 25% cuts in government spending on social welfare on the way, I fear this is likely to be a thing of the past. Maybe society will roll back to the family caring for its own, what you might call "the Spanish way"? Certainly people will have to be a lot more self-sufficient, as there will be some enormous holes in the safety-net provided by the State.

[Alcalaina]

Originally Posted by Eva33

Jojo, yes there is "Spanish bashing" here, at least what I understand under this words. I could go in to details and citations, but I think it is not necessary.

Eva, I looked at many expat forums before choosing this one to contribute to, and believe me there is far less Spanish-bashing here. If anybody does start whingeing, people like Jo will gently guide them back on track ...

[jojo]

Originally Posted by Alcalaina

Jo, I completely agree with you up to the last sentence "there is no doubt that the UK looks after its people" - with 25% cuts in government spending on social welfare on the way, I fear this is likely to be a thing of the past. Maybe society will roll back to the family caring for its own, what you might call "the Spanish way"? Certainly people will have to be a lot more self-sufficient, as there will be some enormous holes in the safety-net provided by the State.

Yes but the ss system in the UK has not only bred a generation of people who actually dont understand how to work/look after themselves, but its been exploited badly. It needs sorting thats for sure and hopefully the cuts will be made without affecting those people who genuinely need a safety net!!!!!!!

Jo xxx

[Hepa]

Eva33,

You say Spaniards have are closer to the South American mentality, no, I disagree, it is the other way round. Spain was in existence long before South America was discovered and was colonised by mainly the Spanish and Portuguese. So the South American Mentality is in fact closer to the Spanish.

When I was a young man, I spent time in Argentina, I have Argentinian friends here and was taught by an Argentinian lady teacher. I have neighbours from Venezuela, and know a family from Ecuador, the differences between them and the Spanish peninsular people and the Canary Island people are minimal. I think they are all "muy simpáticos"

For me the cost of living here, is far far cheaper than when I lived in England for example,

Diesel 73 cents a litre, Lager 1.60 to 2 €, fruit and veg., next to nothing, taxes to the Ayuntamiento half price, bus tickets 1€ to anywhere, cigarettes 90cents a packet, (I do not smoke) You cannot get these prices in England.

I have never noticed the Spanish Bashing, only poor old Telefonica.

There is nothing wrong with your English I wish my Spanish was in the same league.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by Hepa

Eva33,

You say Spaniards have are closer to the South American mentality, no, I disagree, it is the other way round. Spain was in existence long before South America was discovered and was colonised by mainly the Spanish and Portuguese. So the South American Mentality is in fact closer to the Spanish.

When I was a young man, I spent time in Argentina, I have Argentinian friends here and was taught by an Argentinian lady teacher. I have neighbours from Venezuela, and know a family from Ecuador, the differences between them and the Spanish peninsular people and the Canary Island people are minimal. I think they are all "muy simpáticos"

For me the cost of living here, is far far cheaper than when I lived in England for example,

Diesel 73 cents a litre, Lager 1.60 to 2 €, fruit and veg., next to nothing, taxes to the Ayuntamiento half price, bus tickets 1€ to anywhere, cigarettes 90cents a packet, (I do not smoke) You cannot get these prices in England.

I have never noticed the Spanish Bashing, only poor old Telefonica.

I wish my Spanish was in the same league as your English!!

In defence of telefonica, we once had a little chap out from them to sort out a problem with our phone and he was lovely! Efficient, friendly and helpful........... and very good looking lol!!!!!

Jo xxx

[jojo]

......... can I just add? I had know idea that you werent British Eva!!!!! You are very, very good with your written English!

Jo xxx

[mrypg9]

Originally Posted by jojo

Yes but the ss system in the UK has not only bred a generation of people who actually dont understand how to work/look after themselves, but its been exploited badly. It needs sorting thats for sure and hopefully the cuts will be made without affecting those people who genuinely need a safety net!!!!!!!

Jo xxx

Yes there are many people on welfare who are fit to work (just as there are many tax dodgers). But at this point in time there are no jobs available in many areas of high welfare dependency. Plus, as has been pointed out above, the Coalition is intending to make cuts of at least 25% in public sector spending which will add another 100000 a year to the number of jobless - not my figures, theirs in the Budget Book.
So....another 100000 a year on welfare....,as the private sector is highly unlikely to be able to produce the number of new jobs needed in the timescale required.
There is more to be collected in unpaid corporate tax than is defrauded in welfare benefits but the poor, stupid and lazy are an easy target - I often have a go at them myself but I try to be evenhanded.
Today's revelations about the non-UK tax status of the would-have-been Tory Party Treasurer David Rowland is as scandalous as the amount skimmed off in benefit fraud, not to mention the £1.25 billion dividend paid to Philip Green via his wife who has an address in Monaco to avoid UK tax. And the Government has asked him to advise on how to save money for the taxpayer....You couldn't make it up.
The proposed cuts are more likely than not to lead the UK into a double-dip recession, I fear. Recent data on consumer and business confidence point to this and the Office of Budget Responsibility has downgraded the Government's growth projection.
Spain bashing.....rarely seen here. There is a forum (not allowed to name it)which seems to be the preserve of embittered old Brit twerps who have lost money on off-plan and illegal developments, largely through their own cupidity and stupidity but of course they blame Spanish lawyers, politicians, developers etc. etc. rather than consider their own role in their misfortune.
We tend to have a go at the sillier kind of would-be British immigrant who seems to think that with few if any skills, no knowledge of Spanish and often a seemingly poor grasp of their native tongue they can escape their unhappy life in the UK and live 'the dream' (whatever that is) in the sun which they imagine shines for 365 days of the year.
Expect a rash of posts from such people as a) the holiday may be over but the snaps and memories remain b) winter draws on and c) the cuts will put many more on the dole as I said above.
I am sorry for many of these people but wonder how they can be so ignorant of the economic situation in Spain.