Can anyone explain water rights ?

[felix]

"Never pay cash", this is the point, as Chris said. Until you have the conformity of your Town Hall. Nowadays you always have to seek advice personally in the Town Hall. Put forward your plan and wait an answer in writing from the Town Hall, after this you can pay a reservation fee or sign agreements etc. but never before

[chris(madrid)]

Originally Posted by frannrod

Another couple of questions, Chris, if I may. Is this why we see so many farmhouse type properties in the countryside, in ruins? Because you can't get permission to restore them? We have been told that it's not possible to get permission to restore if the property is in less than 10,000 sq m, but we've seen quite a few that seem to be in a bigger plot than that, sometimes not even a major restoration project, and thought there must be a reason why it hadn't been snapped up for restoration.

It's not really my field (pun not intended). I'd have asked the surveyors today, but I'm stuck at home medicated to the eyeballs on painkillers. And I wont now see them till end May.

Historically from what I'm told and have seen, the "rules" regarding raising buildings on land NOT declared as urban WERE (in the past,and from all accounts not too far distant past) often dealt with lightly esp if the landowner was local and known. And things like access rights occasionally blatantly re adjusted/removed/added occasionally too. Some areas worse than others.

It's all VERY MUCH in the public eye now - and as records centralise more and more - the tiniest indiscretion leads to fiscal/political disasters. Several assessors in Madrid city have been pilloried for making incorrect assessments (in return for money of course) - Malaga still lives with its alleged indiscretions.

We had a old friend (ex Spanish General, now passed away) who had a house on a supposed double plot with well etc, apparently on the edge of an established estate. However (and this is a while ago now) when he attempted to build a second home on the other half (second plot) for his son - it was discovered that it had never been urban land. In fact was illegal. I'm sure in the past given the old mans status - it was simply assumed that all was above board and maybe nobody wanted to "suspect/criticise" one of Francos generals either. I doubt, having experienced his way of doing things, he did it wilfully. The existing home was legalised - but the other half plot was declared rustico.

There was a case on Madrid local TV where a a long standing stable block(shack) on a "finca rustica" had been repaired/rebuilt and a small shelter for the workers added. This on a HUGE estate - well above 10,000 - well above 100,000. In went the bulldozers. Had they just left it and just added a plank or two to keep the wind out - it would still be there.

Seen folk come into the town hall attempt to rebuild places - but as the work would be classified as OBRA MAYOR - it gets rejected. I have been told one case was accepted before I joined but because the incumbent actually lived there surrounded by his cows&goats and had for 20 odd years.

If the land is OK for building (say there is permission for a farmhouse etc) you may still huge problems with amenities - Water/sewage/electricity/phone etc. I was really quite surprised recently to visit a friends new house on a small ( & legal ) rural estate just into the province of Avila. No sewage (and the streets are so narrow and poor surfaced - god knows how a truck will get in to drain theh septic tanks) - No street lights - no refuge collection except from one central point once a week - I'd hate to live close to it in summer. Very low max electricity supply - simply the wires wont allow more - inconsistent and low water pressures - He works for Telefonica so was able to get the phone bit sorted quickly - but out in the sticks if there are no free circuits on the trunk in your area - you are in for a LONG wait.

Also (if my wife is a good example of an average Spaniard) - Living out in the sticks is not high up on the wish list. She's very unhappy in pitch black - I quite enjoy seeing by starlight. And you'd be dumb to attempt to have one over the limit and drive home now. 10 years ago - if the local police stopped you - you could get away with a warning (I have done!) - now - BIG HASSLES.

Basically - if you see something you like. Get the details and get to the town hall. But unless the municipal assessor (and thereby the town hall) ratifies in writing a request to build/rebuild/renovate etc - I'd always assume that the answer will be NO if I were you.

[frannrod]

Sorry I'm a bit late in coming back with a big thank you to Chris and Felix for all your invaluable help. I thought we had a fairly healthy degree of cynicsm in dealing with anyone trying to sell us something, but I'm quite staggered at just how brazen that estate agent was. (Incidentally, we've seen the same plot with another agent at 11,000 euros less!) We've learned some very useful lessons here, and really can't thank you enough.

Chris, I hope the painkillers have worked on whatever it was.

[morlandg]

Originally Posted by frannrod

Thank you so much Felix. I am an English lawyer, so naturally I am very cautious - and I am keen to understand how the system works in Spain.

I would be grateful if you could tell me something about the water laws in Spain. How can I know if there is water available at a plot of land? The plot we are/were interested in has a certificate dated 29 November 2006 from the Secretario de la SAT SANTA GENOVEVA 7805 for la utilizacion de los derechos de riego en una superficie de 3.333 sq m.

I am rather angry with the estate agent, who insisted there was "permission to build" AND that "water is available" at this plot. We were not prepared to accept that without checking - but no doubt plenty of others would, and might have wasted their money!

Fran - it looks as though you are unaware of the difference between the formatting of figures in English and Spanish. The spanish use the full stop as the thousand delimiter and the comma as the decimal point. So your water rights are in fact for 3 thousand 3 hundred and thirty three square metres!
¿Comprende?
Graham

[frannrod]

Whoa !! Useful info, thanks. I did ask the agent about it, but he never replied. We decided against it anyway, as from the other replies on here we assumed we'd never get permission to build. But thanks for that. Appreciated. (I've done two terms of Spanish, but we haven't "done" numbers !!!!)