Inheritance

[Stravinsky]

Originally Posted by morlandg

Hi Xose
Thanks for your reply. So Forced Heirship DOES apply......
I cannot find a translation for the word "surfruto". I presume this is a term that is inserted into each partner's wills.
Graham

Both English and Spanish solicitors have advised me that it does not if you are both UK citizens ..... the English will takes precedence, and thats why its important that you make one!

[Hombre]

Originally Posted by Stravinsky

Both English and Spanish solicitors have advised me that it does not if you are both UK citizens ..... the English will takes precedence, and thats why its important that you make one!

Exactly...both our children are adults and I am informed the English will takes precedence.

[morlandg]

Originally Posted by Xose

Hola Hombre,
Just to make sure that he gave you the right advice. In your position I would pose him a pointed question, and see if the answer remains the same.

So, I don't have a Spanish will. I only have the UK will leaving everything to my wife and then the children AFTER she dies.
Once my children are "adult", can my wife do as she pleases with what I have willed as purely HER house?

Can she do as she pleases before they are of age?

Would be interesting if he said yes to both (or any) of the above. It would certainly get me down to my notario tout de suite! So far as I am concerned, without the power of attourney from any surviving ADULT child, the above UK type scenario is not possible under Spanish inheritence law. Not possible at all whilst they are minors.

Xose

Hi Xose
I think your are correct! My experience with spanish professionals is that they answer your question without considering any consequences or the matter 'as a whole'. They simply answer your specific question.
IMO
1. non-movable assets in spain (eg property) must be handled via the spanish succession rules and any spanish will must take this into account. They cannot be freely disposed of by a will.
2. movable assets (eg company shares) can be handled by a will prepared in the UK and later enforced in spain.
SO - is the answer to those of us owning property in spain to create a spanish company and move the non-movable assets into the company? The family can be made directors of said company. On the death of either partner then the shares simply move to the surviving directors(eg partner and family). Costs for setting up and maintaining a company? Anybody have any idea?
Graham

[Pesky Wesky]

Originally Posted by morlandg

Hi Xose
Thanks for your reply. So Forced Heirship DOES apply......
I cannot find a translation for the word "surfruto". I presume this is a term that is inserted into each partner's wills.
Graham

From Wikipedia
Usufruct is the legal right to use and derive profit or benefit from property that belongs to another person, as long as the property is not damaged. In many legal usufruct systems of property, such as the traditional ejido system in Mexico, individuals or groups may only acquire the usufruct of the property, not legal land ownership.

In Spanish sufruto (xose had popped an extra "r" in so if you had looked it up in the dictionary you might not have found it for that reason)

[Pesky Wesky]

Originally Posted by morlandg

Hi Xose
I think your are correct! My experience with spanish professionals is that they answer your question without considering any consequences or the matter 'as a whole'. They simply answer your specific question.
IMO

I agree, they'll answer your question as well as they can, but you have to ask the question. For example the doctor will tell you "Take this 3 times a day", but if you don't ask won't tell you how long for, what the side effects may be, if you need a follow up appointment...

[morlandg]

Originally Posted by Pesky Wesky

From Wikipedia
Usufruct is the legal right to use and derive profit or benefit from property that belongs to another person, as long as the property is not damaged. In many legal usufruct systems of property, such as the traditional ejido system in Mexico, individuals or groups may only acquire the usufruct of the property, not legal land ownership.

In Spanish sufruto (xose had popped an extra "r" in so if you had looked it up in the dictionary you might not have found it for that reason)

Usufruct is a term I had seen before but didn't know what it meant until I too looked it up in Wikipaedia. I didn't pick up the extra 'r'.
Many thanks for the info.
Any comments on the suggestion that creating a company and moving one's property into it in order to avoid inheritance problems?
Graham

[Pesky Wesky]

Originally Posted by morlandg

Usufruct is a term I had seen before but didn't know what it meant until I too looked it up in Wikipaedia.
Any comments on the suggestion that creating a company and moving one's property into it in order to avoid inheritance problems?
Graham

Same for me, one of those things you hear and know it's a legal term and that's about it, but you will find that your average Spaniard knows the term and they are also well versed in medical terms. They'll never say "I've got a sore throat" It always faranghitis, amigdalitis etc etc.
As for the creating a company, sorry, not my thing. I have about 20 pounds in a Nat West account and that's about it in the UK. Not much more here in Spain either unfortunately!! I was only interested in the Spanish side of things as my husband and I are thinking about making wills.

[Xose]

Originally Posted by Pesky Wesky

From Wikipedia
Usufruct is the legal right to use and derive profit or benefit from property that belongs to another person, as long as the property is not damaged. In many legal usufruct systems of property, such as the traditional ejido system in Mexico, individuals or groups may only acquire the usufruct of the property, not legal land ownership.

In Spanish sufruto (xose had popped an extra "r" in so if you had looked it up in the dictionary you might not have found it for that reason)

Actually PW, I made a total pigs ear of it. In Spanish the term is Usufructo. Nothing to do with the surfruto I wrote. That's the problem when 4 different languages are flying around in your head. Faux Ami all over the place

My bad.

[Pesky Wesky]

Originally Posted by Xose

Actually PW, I made a total pigs ear of it. In Spanish the term is Usufructo. Nothing to do with the surfruto I wrote. That's the problem when 4 different languages are flying around in your head. Faux Ami all over the place

My bad.

Well, I've only got 2.1 languages in my head (The .1 is French, that I used to speak quite well about a million years ago when I was student!!), and I manage to come out with all sorts of combinations - creative use of language I say! I think it's amazing that I've managed to learn the meaning of usufructo, and you've remembered the correct usage of the idiom "to make a pig's ear of something" And it's only 11 o' clock!!!

Sorry everyone

[Xose]

Originally Posted by morlandg

Usufruct is a term I had seen before but didn't know what it meant until I too looked it up in Wikipaedia. I didn't pick up the extra 'r'.
Many thanks for the info.
Any comments on the suggestion that creating a company and moving one's property into it in order to avoid inheritance problems?
Graham

The company setup thing for property is one I've seen advertised quite a bit around this type of site.

I'd just be very wary of the implications and responsibilities of directors. Assuming you live for many years to come, does one have normal company accounts, returns etc., etc. to fullfil? Does one have yearly corporation tax to pay on appreciating assetts? Does one have the capital gain tax to pay when the assett is sold, cost of sale minus cost of purchase, or does one de-value it over X years etc., etc., etc.

Oh and last but not least, when I say one, I mean the company. They are not one and the same and it is sometimes difficult to keep that in mind. The company and you are two different entities. Took me ages to get my head around that when I first started contracting under Ltd in the UK (another lifetime ago)
When I stopped trading (went into PAYE as I got an offer I couldn't refuse) I was shocked that all the money in the company was NOT mine. What ended up saving me was that the company had a deposit account. As such, it was still generating income and so, "trading". The accountant I had was good and used this to get the cash out prior to cease trading status and then closure. But it was a close call. The company nearly went into dormant mode with all my dosh in it!!

Probably nothing to do with the type of setup mentioned above for foreign property handling but just goes to show how much one should be aware of before doing anything like this to avoid future surprises.

Xose