More "You Exist, you pay" from HMG

[JBODEN]

Originally Posted by Liberty

Their wages do come from our taxes. And where do our taxes come from? Our salaries, paid by our employers. And where does our employer's money come from? Their clients. And where does their clients' money come from? Well, that line of argument could just go on and on getting more and more ridiculous. So who really is paying their wages??? And does it even matter!!!

The one thing that I am very clear about is that you are not their boss, and you have absolutely no authority over them whatsoever regardless of whether your taxes "pay their wages" or not.

The old "I pay your wages" line (when of course you don't!) is such a cliché and shame on anyone who uses it.

Well, if you want to get back to first principals....
In the begining there were hunter/gatherers. Then they realised that they could cultivate & husband. Then they realised that they were producing surpluses and thought that it might not be such a bad idea to barter their surpluses with other tribes who had surpluses of other needed goods & services. Then someone thought up money as a unit of exchange ... etc. Then somebody had the great idea of not working but raping & pillaging. The tribe which was raped & pillaged thought that it might be a good idea to form an armed guard which, in compensation for its input, would be housed & fed by the rest of the tribe. The armed guard then took control because there is always someone who wants absolute power. They of course wanted more & more .... doesn't this sound like Gordon Brown & his gang?
Basically there are the workers who actually 'create' GNP and the species 'homo sapien-civilus-servants' who live off our labour. I don't understand why you can think otherwise. They do not produce therefore they don't create wealth in a tangible way.

[JBODEN]

Originally Posted by Liberty

The one thing that I am very clear about is that you are not their boss, and you have absolutely no authority over them whatsoever regardless of whether your taxes "pay their wages" or not.

We are in fact their bosses (directly or indirectly) but we have unfortunately lost sight of that fact, which is a shame because they have now become a law unto themselves. Think of it logically; we vote for MPs to look after our interests (ha!) they then creat institutions (with or without our consent) to help them govern. These institutions are called the Civil Service, National Health, Education, Army, Navy, quangos etc. All these institutions are controlled by Government which is employed (voted in) by us. Of course we have no authority over them because we have devolved our authority to Parliament. They are still employed by us albeit indirectly.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by JBODEN

We are in fact their bosses (directly or indirectly) but we have unfortunately lost sight of that fact, which is a shame because they have become a law unto themselves. Think of it logically; we vote for MPs to look after our interests (ha!) they then creat institutions (with or without our consent) to help them govern. These institutions are called the Civil Service, National Health, Education, Army, Navy, quangos etc. All these institutions are controlled by Government which is employed (voted in) by us. Of course we have no authority over them because we have devolved our authority to Parliament. They are still employed by us albeit indirectly.

......... and wouldnt we like to sack the bloody lot of em, well certainly the lot in parliament!!!

Jo xxxx

[JBODEN]

Originally Posted by jojo

......... and wouldnt we like to sack the bloody lot of em, well certainly the lot in parliament!!!

Jo xxxx

... and start again! Actually this recession may be a small blessing in disguise. As sales fall so production falls. With less sales there are less taxes. With less taxes the Governments will have to reduce their workforce (... do we believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden?).

[Liberty]

Originally Posted by JBODEN

Well, if you want to get back to first principals....
In the begining there were hunter/gatherers. Then they realised that they could cultivate & husband. Then they realised that they were producing surpluses and thought that it might not be such a bad idea to barter their surpluses with other tribes who had surpluses of other needed goods & services. Then someone thought up money as a unit of exchange ... etc. Then somebody had the great idea of not working but raping & pillaging. The tribe which was raped & pillaged thought that it might be a good idea to form an armed guard which, in compensation for its input, would be housed & fed by the rest of the tribe. The armed guard then took control because there is always someone who wants absolute power. They of course wanted more & more .... doesn't this sound like Gordon Brown & his gang?
Basically there are the workers who actually 'create' GNP and the species 'homo sapien-civilus-servants' who live off our labour. I don't understand why you can think otherwise. They do not produce therefore they don't create wealth in a tangible way.

Ummm. No, I didn't want to get back to first principals. I thought I had made that clear when I said "Well, that line of argument could just go on and on getting more and more ridiculous". And sure enough, it did. So thanks for that input.

Well, I'll leave to you exercise your perceived sense of self-importance and righteousness over all those employed by the state - civil servants, customs officials, firefighters, police, school teachers, road sweepers, etc. Thank God you are here to put them all in their place and let them know who's in charge. Whatever would the world come to otherwise!

And just one more time, cos I can't resist. "My taxes pay your wages, so therefore I'm your boss". Haha ahhahah hahah.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by Liberty

And just one more time, cos I can't resist. "My taxes pay your wages, so therefore I'm your boss". Haha ahhahah hahah.

Well its true so keep saying it!! Altho it sadly isnt hahaha, its how things are


Now, I dont think this is what the OP was discussing so shall we have a go at sticking to the topic


Jo xxx

[Liberty]

Originally Posted by jojo

Well its true so keep saying it!! Altho it sadly isnt hahaha, its how things are


Now, I dont think this is what the OP was discussing so shall we have a go at sticking to the topic


Jo xxx

Now Jo, do you really think it's correct to express your opinion about an off-topic matter, and then in the same post tell people to stick to the topic??

That's not very sporting, is it?

[jojo]

Originally Posted by Liberty

Now Jo, do you really think it's correct to express your opinion about an off-topic matter, and then in the same post tell people to stick to the topic??

That's not very sporting, is it?

I think a bit off topic is fine, but when it starts to go on and on and on, it turns it into something completely different!! The OP wont take kindly to getting so many notifications about his post when its not something he's asked about!

Why dont you start another thread if you wanna discuss whatever it was????

Jo xxxx

[Hombre]

Originally Posted by jojo

Well its true so keep saying it!! Altho it sadly isnt hahaha, its how things are


Now, I dont think this is what the OP was discussing so shall we have a go at sticking to the topic


Jo xxx

OK..I'll stick my pennyworth in. I'm with JB on this one. Whatever happened to the "servants"?, as in "civil"...they have become the masters. £1000 fine if you place your bin 2" out of place???? etc etc etc. I could go on but we all have similiar stories of how obnoxious they have become. Council heads being paid more than the Prime Minister...(and don't get me going on that one ). Little "jobsworths ", who are where they are because they can't get a productive job, telling the people who produce wealth and who are the real backbone of the country how to conduct themselves....for classic examples go to any British airport, it will be awash with them. Soulless council offices, where no one smiles and visitors are treated as though they had just crawled from under a brick.
Any little "toad " who puts on his uniform each morning and sets out to show the general public how bloody "big" he is. We all encounter them every day of our daily lives and is one of the main reasons I left the UK. The place is a disgrace and an embarrassment. What foreign visitors think of it, I shudder to think.
I'm sorry Liberty...but your passionate attack on JB only leads me to believe that you are a civil servant..(or ex ) yourself. There is no other reason for defending this odious system that we have allowed to permeate our lives.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by Hombre

OK..I'll stick my pennyworth in. I'm with JB on this one. Whatever happened to the "servants"?, as in "civil"...they have become the masters. £1000 fine if you place your bin 2" out of place???? etc etc etc. I could go on but we all have similiar stories of how obnoxious they have become. Council heads being paid more than the Prime Minister...(and don't get me going on that one ). Little "jobsworths ", who are where they are because they can't get a productive job, telling the people who produce wealth and who are the real backbone of the country how to conduct themselves....for classic examples go to any British airport, it will be awash with them. Soulless council offices, where no one smiles and visitors are treated as though they had just crawled from under a brick.
Any little "toad " who puts on his uniform each morning and sets out to show the general public how bloody "big" he is. We all encounter them every day of our daily lives and is one of the main reasons I left the UK. The place is a disgrace and an embarrassment. What foreign visitors think of it, I shudder to think.
I'm sorry Liberty...but your passionate attack on JB only leads me to believe that you are a civil servant..(or ex ) yourself. There is no other reason for defending this odious system that we have allowed to permeate our lives.

AAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I may have to report you to mrs H!!!!!!!!!!!!


Jo xxxxx