Terms & Conditions Acceptable Use Policy Take Down Policy Privacy Policy Contact Us
Go Back   Expat Forum For Expats, For Moving Overseas And For Jobs Abroad > Expat Forums by Country > Spain Expat Forum for Expats Living in Spain

Spain Expat Forum for Expats Living in Spain Living in Spain ForumThe Spain Expats forum is a dedicated community of people that have moved to Spain. This is the place for Expats to meet and discuss anything including the Spanish way of life, working in Spain, food and property in Spain.

sites for renting apartments/houses

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 21st January 2008, 05:30 PM
Expat Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3
Rep Power: 0
woof is on a distinguished road
Question sites for renting apartments/houses

Hi!

Currently i am in the recruiting process for a couple of
jobs in Spain. While doing some search with google
efficiently results in detailed overviews on the local
tax situation (nice to see that EU inward expats qualify
for a 25% flat income tax for about 5 years , but shocking
high up to 80% taxes on heirship and gifts - PLUS taxes
in your home country...), overviews on buying power,
social security and health insurance and so on, i had so far
no success with searching

sites for long term rentals of apartments or houses .

Especially with the Barcelona region, which would be my
personal favourite, the only result one gets are thousand
of sites renting apartments to tourists.

Any recommendations?
Thanks!!!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 21st January 2008, 06:38 PM
Stravinsky's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oliva, Spain
Posts: 1,948
Rep Power: 209
Stravinsky has a spectacular aura aboutStravinsky has a spectacular aura aboutStravinsky has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by woof View Post
Hi!
Currently i am in the recruiting process for a couple of
jobs in Spain. While doing some search with google
efficiently results in detailed overviews on the local
tax situation (nice to see that EU inward expats qualify
for a 25% flat income tax for about 5 years , but shocking
high up to 80% taxes on heirship and gifts - PLUS taxes
in your home country...), overviews on buying power,
social security and health insurance and so on, i had so far
no success with searching
Hi woof

A bit of what you say above is not actually quite right, not sure where you researched it from.

Firstly, you dont have to pay taxes in your home country if there is a dual taxation treaty, and that applies to most eu countries. IHT (heirship) is no where near 80%, the highest rate is around 34% and there is talk of it being done away with altogether in some regions (watch for pigs flying). If you are a surviving resident spouse there are circumstances when the IHT is reduced by up to 95%.

I know nothing about a 25% flat tax rate, but not sure why anyone would be happy with that anyway as income tax here starts at 15% and there are reasonable tax free allowances.

What do you want to know about health insurance?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 22nd January 2008, 09:48 AM
Expat Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3
Rep Power: 0
woof is on a distinguished road
Cool

Hi Stravinsky,

thank you so much for helping with my question of searching websites with apartments for long term rental!
Astonishingly not all EU countries have dual taxation treaties with Spain, and those treaties closed do not cover all areas of taxation. Just look to not the smallest countries in the EU, Germany. They do not have such a dual taxation treaty at all.

You are definately wrong with the height of the IHT. First they get you as soon as you stay more than 183days/year in Spain and if they should get you withholding taxes they can fine you 20% extra tax. Anyway, read my lips - I pointed out that IHT can be "up to 80%".
Let me demonstrate this with a realistic example: You receive an apartment from a friend by his last will in your home country, worth 400.000€. As result you have no tax exempt amount, which is not reasonable but ridiculously low 15.000€ in other cases thus this does not make a difference. In other countries the tax exempt amount with heirship can be 15 fold this amount. But back to the example. Above 398.777,54€ IHT rate is 29,75 % and the multiplier from tax class IV is 2,0 --> so you quickly end up with 60% heirship (§ 21 of the tax law). Assuming one already owns an apartment or other values anywhere in the world, the tax rises even further, but most likely you anyway have no other option than selling the apartment for paying the taxes.

One must keep in mind that Spain was a socialistic country for decades. In contrast to other countries where heirship is ment to care for the recepient, Spain 's political intention is to take away this value from you and to redistribute it to society.


If you know nothing about a 25% flat tax rate, than you do not know §9 of law 62/2003 dated Dec. 30 2003. It offers inward expats the option to choose between limited (but no allowances) and unlimited taxation. Yes, income tax starts with 15% but it goes up to 48%. Already from 80.000€/year you can save up to 5000€ taxes.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 22nd January 2008, 10:32 AM
Stravinsky's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oliva, Spain
Posts: 1,948
Rep Power: 209
Stravinsky has a spectacular aura aboutStravinsky has a spectacular aura aboutStravinsky has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by woof View Post
Hi Stravinsky,

thank you so much for helping with my question of searching websites with apartments for long term rental!
Astonishingly not all EU countries have dual taxation treaties with Spain, and those treaties closed do not cover all areas of taxation. Just look to not the smallest countries in the EU, Germany. They do not have such a dual taxation treaty at all.

You are definately wrong with the height of the IHT. First they get you as soon as you stay more than 183days/year in Spain and if they should get you withholding taxes they can fine you 20% extra tax. Anyway, read my lips - I pointed out that IHT can be "up to 80%".
Let me demonstrate this with a realistic example: You receive an apartment from a friend by his last will in your home country, worth 400.000€. As result you have no tax exempt amount, which is not reasonable but ridiculously low 15.000€ in other cases thus this does not make a difference. In other countries the tax exempt amount with heirship can be 15 fold this amount. But back to the example. Above 398.777,54€ IHT rate is 29,75 % and the multiplier from tax class IV is 2,0 --> so you quickly end up with 60% heirship (§ 21 of the tax law). Assuming one already owns an apartment or other values anywhere in the world, the tax rises even further, but most likely you anyway have no other option than selling the apartment for paying the taxes.

One must keep in mind that Spain was a socialistic country for decades. In contrast to other countries where heirship is ment to care for the recepient, Spain 's political intention is to take away this value from you and to redistribute it to society.


If you know nothing about a 25% flat tax rate, than you do not know §9 of law 62/2003 dated Dec. 30 2003. It offers inward expats the option to choose between limited (but no allowances) and unlimited taxation. Yes, income tax starts with 15% but it goes up to 48%. Already from 80.000€/year you can save up to 5000€ taxes.
Thanks for your input.

All I can tell you is that after years of researching the internet, getting advice from tax advisors, advice from a tax specialist gestoria here in Spain, speaking to Germans, French, English, Dutch Expats, and living here in Spain ....... what I posted above is correct according to all.

Please point me to details about a tax multiplier, as I know people here who's spouses have passed away and no such multiplier has been applied or mentioned and I'm eager to see what this is as even the tax books I have mention nothing of this.

If you inherit as a non spanish or spanish resident you cannot sell the apartment, as you suggest, to pay the tax. It is not allowed here in Spain to do so and you have to raise the funds to pay the IHT to release the apartment. A good option is to take out life insurance to cover this. A surviving spouse or child who continues to live in Spain after a bereavement can pay very little in IHT. Mortgages are deductable also, and if the apartment is in joint names then the liability can be reduced even further.

As far as I am aware there has been a tax treaty between Spain and Germany since 1968. There are around 70 treaties signed by Spain with other countries

For sure there is the 180 day rule, but if you are caught witholding taxes then, like any other country, you deserve to be fined!

So what you are saying seems to differ from what tax experts and people on the ground with experience say, but I'm certainly always willing to learn so look forward to seeing the details
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 22nd January 2008, 04:18 PM
Expat Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3
Rep Power: 0
woof is on a distinguished road
Default

The answers you get always depend on the questions you ask!

Again - read my lips! My example was not about spouses passing away but a friend, thus not a relative. Spouses fall under tax class II, as children above 21 do. Up to a personal capital of 402.678,11€ the factor applicable is 1,00, but as soon as this amounts raises to 4.020.770,98€ they also face a factor of 1,2. (§21 tax law).
Ofcourse it's not about immediately selling real estate to cover the tax load - as long that's not completed you're not the owner who would have the right to do that, i left out the trival step of a bridging financial operation.
And the timepoint with regard to the spanish german tax treaty is correct, Jan. 20th as far as i found out, but nothing has moved for 40 years and it just did not cover heirship.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 22nd January 2008, 04:31 PM
Stravinsky's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oliva, Spain
Posts: 1,948
Rep Power: 209
Stravinsky has a spectacular aura aboutStravinsky has a spectacular aura aboutStravinsky has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by woof View Post
The answers you get always depend on the questions you ask!

Again - read my lips! My example was not about spouses passing away but a friend, thus not a relative. Spouses fall under tax class II, as children above 21 do. Up to a personal capital of 402.678,11€ the factor applicable is 1,00, but as soon as this amounts raises to 4.020.770,98€ they also face a factor of 1,2. (§21 tax law).
Ofcourse it's not about immediately selling real estate to cover the tax load - as long that's not completed you're not the owner who would have the right to do that, i left out the trival step of a bridging financial operation.
And the timepoint with regard to the spanish german tax treaty is correct, Jan. 20th as far as i found out, but nothing has moved for 40 years and it just did not cover heirship.
Can I just say .... I cant read your lips for obvious reasons, its an unfortunate turn of phrase in the UK often used in an aggressive way, which I'm sure is not your intention

Yes I see your example, but your original post just stated inheritence tax is up to 80%, and you have to remember there are a lot of people in different situations reading this forum and that would probably cause some to have a heart attack.

I'm not sure that any of the tax treaties address heirship .... its a really bad tax for people who live here and as you say can be terribly cash draining. Its designed to favour families, hence why in the past so many homes have passed down through families from generation to generation, as then there is hardly any inheritence tax involved. They dont cater for foreigners I'm afraid and thats why we are well and truly stuffed. There are ways and means of accomodating it though

I'll have to research the factoring that you mention as it is news to me
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Articles for Cyprus property sites OnlyTopResults Introductions 0 13th January 2008 05:17 PM
Best Recruitment Sites?? canadianprecastengineer Dubai Expat Forum for Expats Living in Dubai 3 11th December 2007 03:08 AM
Renting without a job? Magic_monkey Australia Expat Forum for Expats Living in Australia 3 19th November 2007 01:52 PM
real estate web sites in Pattaya d&n Thailand Expat Forum for Expats Living in Thailand 3 19th September 2007 06:35 PM

LEGAL NOTICE
By using this Website, you agree to abide by our Terms and Conditions (the "Terms"). This notice does not replace our Terms, which you must read in full as they contain important information. You must not post any defamatory, unlawful or undesirable content, or any content copied from a third party, on the Website. You must not copy material from the Website except in accordance with the Terms. This Website gives users an opportunity to share information only and is not intended to contain any advice which you should rely upon. It does not replace the need to take professional or other advice. We have no liability to you or any other person in respect of any content on this Website.
FORUM PARTNERS

ExpatForum.com is owned and operated by the MoveForward.com Limited group. You can find out more about us here. Keep a look out for some up coming ventures like: The Dubai Forum for everything about Dubai. The Income Forum for everything financial.

Expats Guide to Moving Overseas | Expats Guide to Buying Property Abroard | Guides to Working Abroad | Retiring Overseas Guides | Moving Overseas Guides | Expat Country Guides | Expat Property Guides | Cost of Living | Health Care Guides | New York Forum


Latest Active Threads

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:54 AM.

Register With Expat Forum

Living in America Forum America Forum
Living in Australia Forum Australia Forum
Living in Britain Forum Britain Forum
Living in Canada Forum Canada Forum
Living in Cyprus Forum Cyprus Forum
Living in Dubai Forum Dubai Forum
Living in Egypt Forum Egypt Forum
Living in France Forum France Forum
Living in Greece Forum Greece Forum
Living in Hong Kong Forum Hong Kong Forum
Living in Italy Forum Italy Forum
Living in Japan Forum Japan Forum
Living in Mexico Forum Mexico Forum
Living in New Zealand Forum New Zealand Forum
Living in Portugal Forum Portugal Forum
Living in Singapore Forum Singapore Forum
Living in Spain Forum Spain Forum
Living in South Africa Forum South Africa Forum
Living in Thailand Forum Thailand Forum




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0