Residency Certificates for EU residents

[Stravinsky]

Originally Posted by mrypg9

Not so. We have been resident outside the UK for several years with full knowledge of the Czech tax authorities and with residency permits. We pay UK tax and UK tax only on our income.
We could have chosen to be taxed in our current country of residence but stayed with the UK tax system. Reciprocal agreements on taxation of pension and investment incomes mean that you do not pay twice. That's why they exist.
We took professional advice as we obviously wanted the best financial arrangements.

Well I really am sorry, but thats NOT the case here in Spain my friend. Believe me, this has been discussed on other forums also. YES, there is a double tax treaty ..... but that doesn't mean you can live here in Spain and pay taxes in the UK ... well, as I said, you can, but it wont stop the Spanish coming for you as well.

This, as learned from my solicitor, my gestoria, various solicitors who have posted on the subject on several forums, a professional financial advisor literate in UK tax and Spanish tax, and hundreds and hunderds of brits on forums who are already doing it.

If you pay your tax in the UK, the Spanish will either come for the balance due here, or they will want the lot, in which case you will have to reclaim from the UK. You will also be liable for wealth tax which of course you dont have to pay in the UK. You don't pay twice, you just have to pay in the correct country or sort the mess out afterwards

[Stravinsky]

Originally Posted by mrypg9

What about the 'vivienda'? Doesn't that allow for a five-year lease with the option of inflation-only yearly rent increases?
That's what the Real Estate agencies are telling us.

You asked what the norm was, and I can only tell you from my experience what renters tend to prefer

[Stravinsky]

Originally Posted by mrypg9

Not so sure it is. EU citizens may - not must - apply for a residency permit when they move to another EU country.

In Spain it is a requirement, you have no choice

[mrypg9]

Originally Posted by Stravinsky

Well I really am sorry, but thats NOT the case here in Spain my friend. Believe me, this has been discussed on other forums also. YES, there is a double tax treaty ..... but that doesn't mean you can live here in Spain and pay taxes in the UK ... well, as I said, you can, but it wont stop the Spanish coming for you as well.

This, as learned from my solicitor, my gestoria, various solicitors who have posted on the subject on several forums, a professional financial advisor literate in UK tax and Spanish tax, and hundreds and hunderds of brits on forums who are already doing it.

If you pay your tax in the UK, the Spanish will either come for the balance due here, or they will want the lot, in which case you will have to reclaim from the UK. You will also be liable for wealth tax which of course you dont have to pay in the UK. You don't pay twice, you just have to pay in the correct country or sort the mess out afterwards

If your income is from a UK Government pension source - which includes local government pensions - it is taxed in the UK only. No double taxation.
Income from annuities can also be taxed in the UK and credited against any Spanish tax claim.
I've been living on such income for the past few years having informed both the UK and Czech tax authorities of my status.

From the UK Pensions Service website:

[i]Usually Government Service and Local Authority Service Pensions paid to British nationals living overseas remain taxable in the UK. You will still be eligible to receive full UK Personal Allowances and reliefs.

We are both right - I have assets held in an off-shore bank which have tax deducted at source and which will need to be reported to Spanish tax authorities along with my other incomes.
But I will not be doubly taxed on any government pensions received.

[mrypg9]

A thought occurs.....might I be better off taking myself out of the UK tax system and having all my income taxed in Spain?
Whatever, it seems many forms are going to have to be filled in....

[Stravinsky]

Originally Posted by mrypg9

If your income is from a UK Government pension source - which includes local government pensions - it is taxed in the UK only. No double taxation.
Income from annuities can also be taxed in the UK and credited against any Spanish tax claim.
I've been living on such income for the past few years having informed both the UK and Czech tax authorities of my status.

From the UK Pensions Service website:

[i]Usually Government Service and Local Authority Service Pensions paid to British nationals living overseas remain taxable in the UK. You will still be eligible to receive full UK Personal Allowances and reliefs.

We are both right - I have assets held in an off-shore bank which have tax deducted at source and which will need to be reported to Spanish tax authorities along with my other incomes.
But I will not be doubly taxed on any government pensions received.

Yes you are right, Govt pensions are the exception, my wife has one

[mrypg9]

Originally Posted by Stravinsky

Yes you are right, Govt pensions are the exception, my wife has one

I didn't explain myself very well...
As they say, at the end of the day there's death and taxes

[Stravinsky]

Originally Posted by mrypg9

I didn't explain myself very well...
As they say, at the end of the day there's death and taxes

Yep, thats for sure

[El Capitan]

Hi to all. New to this forum but not new to Spain. Maybe worth noting a few things in addition to what is said above. The UK is the exception just about across the whole of the EU in that UK residents do not de facto have a registration certificate relating to where you live. In most countries you have to register your formal place of residence with the national police. In Belgium they even come round to your address and check that you have your name on the door! A consequence of this is that, with the exception of the UK you must be registered somewhere and you cant be registered twice. When you move from one address to another, the former becomes deactivated as the new one takes over. In this way, most European citizens do not have much choice as their official place of residence and their country of tax liability. Residence is defined as the country where you spend more than 183 days per calendar year so unless you constantly travel a lot your country of residence is defined for you. (I said most European citizens as there are execptions such as crown servants and government pensioners). It is also interesting that as a UK passport holder, you get a new number each time you renew your passport, quite unlike a Spanish passport holder who has his/her ID number which is the same number for life and which is his/her NIF (numero identificacion fiscal) and his/her personal identity number for ID card and passport. When a UK citizen takes up residence in Spain there is therefore no automatic reference number (or ID number if you wish) for the authorities to keep records on you. Hence to do any taxable transaction like buying a car you need your NIE (numero identificacion extanjero) which is like a NIF for foreigners. The resident card for EU citizens has now disappeared and is effectively replaced by the full NIE certificate, basically an A4 sheet of paper which is valid for eternity and never needs renewing. You do need to activate (ad alta) your NIE with the goverment departments in order to use it and you then get a sheet of sticky labels (etiquetas) with a bar code and your NIE number, name and address on it. The interesting quirk is that you should have a NIE if you are in Spain for more than 3 months and they use the NIE certificate as a certificate of residency even though you may or may not be resident as in being here for more than 183 days a year. So you can have a NIE and be officially non-resident and you can be resident but stil only have the NIE. Confused yet?

Things have changed a lot over the years as someone said above. Spain was taken to EU court for things like demanding that non-Spanish EU citizens have to exchange their drivign licence for a Spanish one. They lost but they can and do insist on applying equivalent rules for resident EU extranjeros as if they were Spanish nationals. Enough for now. Saludos.
p.s. pardon the few Spanish words but these are necessary to understand what NIF and NIE stand for.

[crookesey]

El Capitan has actually told us why we require certain documentation as against other posts that simply tell us what we should have without giving a reason.

As other EU nationals are required to have ID cards are the Spanish authorities exceeding their remit by pushing their ID cards and residence certificates on already certified EU citizens?

IMO the Spanish authorities are operating in a worn out Franconian time warp when they should to be addressing the collapse of their housing market and the probable collapse of their tourist market.