Residency Certificates for EU residents

[susanspain]

I have read with interest all the Q's & As.. from Residency, to NIE, to ID cards (NIE & DNI are not the same - although as one member says the number of the NIE is the same as the DNI card - which infact no longer exisits - you just get a piece of paper/'cerificate' of residency but it no longer has a photo so is pretty useless as you are now officiall required to carry photo ID too - i.e your passport (although I have been advised the UK photo licence is good enough - as long as it is the original)

Likewise there is info about Empadronmento, car transfers, ownership of cars, tax, NI, Social Secutiry, health system, tax in Spain/UK etc, etc.

Sadly it is a minefield out there (10 years of wading through the system has taught me nothing is straighforward and we are often at the mercy of 'professionals' giving us the right advice - and often paying them - only to find out it might have been 'wrong/bad advice'. Also that it 100% depends on whom you are dealing with at the time).

I have always been happy to be 'legal' here.. But the more I think about it/encounter difficulties - the less I want to. (This is not particularly based on too many bad experiences, but more to do with the reciprocal EU laws seem to have little to do with how Spain views the process).

[chris(madrid)]

Originally Posted by susanspain

although as one member says the number of the NIE is the same as the DNI card - which infact no longer exisits

It does still exist - BUT not for everybody.

EU/Schengen citizens (plus one or two others) are considered accredited using their country of origens ID - the NIE cert being "administrative" - But true immigrants NEED an ID.

As was posted here (first page) - Spain wanted to do away with IDs for EU citizens - and was forced to comply - So unsure why that's Spains fault for a bureaucratic process.

To date the processes seem frankly easier day by day - and no different to that a Spaniard has to pursue. The problem is that many (and it's especially so for Anglo Saxons apparently) seen reluctant to adapt.

The easy way to find out what you need - is ask the authorities directly - imo they're ALL helpful. Of course you do need to be fluent in Spanish.

[mrypg9]

Originally Posted by susanspain

I have read with interest all the Q's & As.. from Residency, to NIE, to ID cards (NIE & DNI are not the same - although as one member says the number of the NIE is the same as the DNI card - which infact no longer exisits - you just get a piece of paper/'cerificate' of residency but it no longer has a photo so is pretty useless as you are now officiall required to carry photo ID too - i.e your passport (although I have been advised the UK photo licence is good enough - as long as it is the original)

Likewise there is info about Empadronmento, car transfers, ownership of cars, tax, NI, Social Secutiry, health system, tax in Spain/UK etc, etc.

Sadly it is a minefield out there (10 years of wading through the system has taught me nothing is straighforward and we are often at the mercy of 'professionals' giving us the right advice - and often paying them - only to find out it might have been 'wrong/bad advice'. Also that it 100% depends on whom you are dealing with at the time).

I have always been happy to be 'legal' here.. But the more I think about it/encounter difficulties - the less I want to. (This is not particularly based on too many bad experiences, but more to do with the reciprocal EU laws seem to have little to do with how Spain views the process).

That certainly reflects my experience in my years in the Czech Republic. Interpretation of laws and regulations depended largely on the knowledge/lack of them on the part of the officials and also involved individual susceptibility to bribery and even whether the official in question had had a row with his/her partner that morning.
It also depended, as in my sofar limited experience of Spain also seems the case, on how you 'manage' your encounters with officialdom. In fact, I'd say this could well be the number one factor -in some cases, at least. I managed to avoid a large fine for illegal -and stupid -parking by simply being very contrite and 'umble and conversing in reasonably comprehensible Spanish with the Policia Local who surrounded my illicitly parked vehicle!
This would not have been the case in Prague unless a large banknote was discretely proferred.
Refusal to do this cost me a lot in Czech crowns for traffic 'offences' that weren't really offences. I always insisted on the police officers writing out complex and lengthy receipts as my little bit of retaliation.
It's always best to be 'legal' wherever you are but sometimes the effort is not really worth the outcome,as you seem to imply.The more countries you've lived in as an expat and the more languages you are reasonably fluent in, the more you come to realise this rather sad fact.
As I said, I'm a newcomer here and on a fast learning curve, helped by this site. It does seem though that there are a few older, less experienced expats who have come to Spain as first-time residents in a foreign country and who are understandably uber-cautious, especially if their knowledge of Spanish is minimal.
I'm going to follow their example, at least until I feel my feet are well under the Spanish table!

[chris(madrid)]

Originally Posted by mrypg9

I managed to avoid a large fine for illegal -and stupid -parking by simply being very contrite and 'umble and conversing in reasonably comprehensible Spanish with the Policia Local who surrounded my illicitly parked vehicle!

This approach works fine for a while - problem is there is a limit to how long the "I'm trying to integrate, officer" ruse works. After 10 years - they'll expect you to have known.

Local Police are generally understanding - and as often as not hold to the spirit of the law - and give you a warning (esp if you're on their patch). I once got away with something I am very ashamed of due to their "understanding"

The GC imo are not. They've never been officious - but generally hold to the letter of the law. This said I find the GC are always very courteous too.

In CZ - I'm lucky - I usually go as a guest of the Police. Was great last time - met at the plane door and escorted straight through customs and immigration

[mrypg9]

Originally Posted by chris(madrid)

In CZ - I'm lucky - I usually go as a guest of the Police. Was great last time - met at the plane door and escorted straight through customs and immigration

Sounds intriguing.....
So you know all about the 'old Spanish customs' of the Czech police, then...
Poorly paid, inadequately trained, outdated equipment - it's no wonder that some of them are bent. Far too many remain in service who started their careers under Communism and think they can still be judge, jury and enforcer.
I have had few dealings with the Spanish police, whether local or GC but those that I had were positive -courteous, professional, smart.
Anyone with any brain cells learns from their mistakes and careless parking is one mistake I won't make again!
Luckily my lesson was free, unlike in dear old Prague..

[mrypg9]

Originally Posted by chris(madrid)

. Of course you do need to be fluent in Spanish.

I can't understand how people can come to live here and not take the trouble to learn some Spanish.It's common courtesy to learn the language of any country you intend to relocate to, surely?
If you don't,not only do you make a lot of unneccessary difficulties for yourself when dealing with officialdom, you are self-segregating from the host community socially and your interactions could well be confined exclusively to your compatriots.
During my years in the CR I made gallant efforts to learn Czech, one of the more difficult European languages (Slavonic). Although I have worked as a translator/interpreter, I found it hard to get beyond basic transactional Czech.
Compared to Czech or Polish, learning Spanish is a doddle!

[susanspain]

Hi Chris et al (not to take a 'pop' at anyone.. this is a friendly site after all!)...
'Must have some level of Spanish'.
I TOTALLY AGREE! It goes a long way to getting some help. Only I seem to have qued for hours (like my Spanish neighbour) eg in Social Security to ask a specific Q/or advice - but because I feel there is a level of xenophobia (I don't think I am imagining it. Either it is that or the person I encounter is battered with the constant Q's of their clients - whom as you know can stretch out the door on a normal day in these places & has a 'bad hair day' by the time it is my turn - 3hrs later)... I have felt more often than not that I am not making headway. My level of Spanish is very passable so I do not think it is an excuse that I am not making myself understood.
I really don't remember all this red tape in the UK. (Or if it is there, perhaps here has more?).
Yes, most offices/departments should have someone to give you the correct information. But when you have banged your head against the wall all day for a week at a time to get a 'small thing' sorted - you begin to wonder if it is you or the 'system'. (Also the 'bad hair day syndrome').
I really have tried my upmost to be legal for the whole time I have been here (10yrs now), but even the friendly foreigners office at our local town hall sympathise that us 'extranjeros' have a different approach on things (and probably higher expectations?). I do understand this factor - and always try to do things the local way. But when the lawyer has given me bad advice (and lost me money), a serious crime has been committed (and no one gives a SxxT), my Tax & SS status are up the spout... I start to think I am a 'non person' and may start to act like one. (Ie go under the radar and let them find me if there is anything in the outside world I 'should' be doing).
I am not in anyway saying I made the wrong choice to live in Spain. I think I am just feeling beaten up with my recent experiences.

[chris(madrid)]

Originally Posted by mrypg9

Sounds intriguing.....

It involves shooting. I get regular invitations to participate in 1000m shoots. They even lend me the gun, which makes life easier. Not been for a year or so - BUT LATER THIS YEAR I hope to go. Normally end up sleeping in spare rooms in the training colleges - free but a bit Spartan.

[mrypg9]

Originally Posted by chris(madrid)

It involves shooting. .

Are you for hire?
I have some scores to settle back in Prague, especially with a landlord who presented us with a (totally false) bill for £3000 when we gave notice. That amount included a new pump for the swimming pool and repairs to the heating system, all excluded under the terms of the contract. We didn't pay.
Come to think of it, I could include the Moroccan 'satellite engineer' here who charged us 500 euros to set up our Sky plus, including dish, cabling, but who failed to tell us that all the cabling was in place and used the communal dish.
Once bitten, twice shy and as I said earlier, we're on a steep learning curve.

[Stravinsky]

Ahem ..... the residency thread