: Slippery Sales Agents be careful !!! :

[Big Pete]

Just got back from buying my Spanish (Mallorca) Villa and boy oh boy what a day that was !!

Having arranged the purchase price and finally getting my NIE number all systems were GO ,, Notary arranged and as advised a translator was required and so one was hired for the sum of 200 euros..

The agent meets me at the Bank where the Bankers draaft is collected along with the Cash (Black money which is the normal out there !!) Anyways the agent is all smiles happy cheerful treats me to coffee whereby we meet up with the Translator a nice pretty lady , who proceeds to tell me all about her life in Switzerland , Austria , sweden Spain and eventually Mallorca . We meet the seller a German chap nice guy . we finish our coffees and then drive of in convoy to the Notary appointment .

At the Notary out comes the agreement and my Translator goes through it pointing out various points along the way , in one section it covers something about Capital gains tax which she seemed to have trouble understanding and at this stage goes into german speaking and speaks with the agent for a few minutes and then says , its not really relevant but just needs to be in there to demonstrate Capital gains tax will be paid to the Government , Now knowing that this is impossible to be of concern to me as i am buying so not made any gains we move onto the next bit , all standard stuff and so we wait for the Notary to be ready for us ..

In the Notarys Office room the Notary asks for the Cheques and deeds etc and then proceeds to go through the agreement .
Fortunately he spoke very good English and so was able to read and confirm points in Spanish and English and all was well until he says " So it is agreed you will be paying the Capital Gains tax for the seller then ? " I think for a second and say excuse me can you repeat that last bit again !! he says " You have agreed to pay all Herr ****** Tax liabilities ? " Well as you can imagine my blood did some what start pumping at this point . And i said NO he then advised well thats what this Contract is saying !! I turned to the agent and said "What the F*** you think your doing " He replied thats normal and thats what was agreed , whilst going brilliant red in the face and looking like a man who had been rumbled . I said to the Translator why didnt you spot that she said she did but Mr Schrober said it was all agreed so skip through it ..
Well i told the Notary to pass the Moneys back sale is NOT proceeding , the Mrs says to me so whats the problem ? I explain that the little meak and mild german guy selling the Villa probably paid 25,000 euros for it 18 years ago and Capital gains tax due on it is to be paid by me .. She gets that look in her eye and i am thinking ohh here we go ! She goes mad picks up a folder and slings it at the Agent muttering about ripping his head off !! Says stuff your Villa you Lying S*** and storms out the room !

The Notary remains very calm considering and the female translator goes out to see that the mrs is ok and the agent decides to make a discreet exit leaving just me and the owner and the Notary . I tell him Nice try but it didnt work and so now you can stuff your villa , He says we can change the agreement to ensure that he is liable , i tell him to be honest i am so annoyed that you pulled this stunt that i dont want your Villa anymore .He says he didnt do the agreement the agent said if i can save you money can i have a share , he obviously said yes but now regrets it !!. The Notary says i will give you 5 minutes to decide what to do , and leaves the room .

I pop down stairs to see the Mrs and see what she wants to do she is still furious and ranting about seperating the agents nostrils with a sledge hammer etc,etc.. The agents cleared off leaving just us to sort the mess out , the owner comes out gives the wife a hug and says sorry etc , we discuss it and have the paperwork altered and then we proceed .

So be warned this is such a easy scam for a seller and agent to pull off and i am sure if it hadnt been for the Notary speaking such good English then i am sure i would of now been looking to pay the sellers Tax liability in some 30 days time !!! As its such a small paragraph in Spanish amongst loads ..

The agents Schober and partners in Mallorca . were the agents but i bet its common ,so be careful ..

[Big Pete]

Originally Posted by Big Pete

Just got back from buying my Spanish (Mallorca) Villa and boy oh boy what a day that was !!

Having arranged the purchase price and finally getting my NIE number all systems were GO ,, Notary arranged and as advised a translator was required and so one was hired for the sum of 200 euros..

The agent meets me at the Bank where the Bankers draaft is collected along with the Cash (Black money which is the normal out there !!) Anyways the agent is all smiles happy cheerful treats me to coffee whereby we meet up with the Translator a nice pretty lady , who proceeds to tell me all about her life in Switzerland , Austria , sweden Spain and eventually Mallorca . We meet the seller a German chap nice guy . we finish our coffees and then drive of in convoy to the Notary appointment .

At the Notary out comes the agreement and my Translator goes through it pointing out various points along the way , in one section it covers something about Capital gains tax which she seemed to have trouble understanding and at this stage goes into german speaking and speaks with the agent for a few minutes and then says , its not really relevant but just needs to be in there to demonstrate Capital gains tax will be paid to the Government , Now knowing that this is impossible to be of concern to me as i am buying so not made any gains we move onto the next bit , all standard stuff and so we wait for the Notary to be ready for us ..

In the Notarys Office room the Notary asks for the Cheques and deeds etc and then proceeds to go through the agreement .
Fortunately he spoke very good English and so was able to read and confirm points in Spanish and English and all was well until he says " So it is agreed you will be paying the Capital Gains tax for the seller then ? " I think for a second and say excuse me can you repeat that last bit again !! he says " You have agreed to pay all Herr ****** Tax liabilities ? " Well as you can imagine my blood did some what start pumping at this point . And i said NO he then advised well thats what this Contract is saying !! I turned to the agent and said "What the F*** you think your doing " He replied thats normal and thats what was agreed , whilst going brilliant red in the face and looking like a man who had been rumbled . I said to the Translator why didnt you spot that she said she did but Mr Schrober said it was all agreed so skip through it ..
Well i told the Notary to pass the Moneys back sale is NOT proceeding , the Mrs says to me so whats the problem ? I explain that the little meak and mild german guy selling the Villa probably paid 25,000 euros for it 18 years ago and Capital gains tax due on it is to be paid by me .. She gets that look in her eye and i am thinking ohh here we go ! She goes mad picks up a folder and slings it at the Agent muttering about ripping his head off !! Says stuff your Villa you Lying S*** and storms out the room !

The Notary remains very calm considering and the female translator goes out to see that the mrs is ok and the agent decides to make a discreet exit leaving just me and the owner and the Notary . I tell him Nice try but it didnt work and so now you can stuff your villa , He says we can change the agreement to ensure that he is liable , i tell him to be honest i am so annoyed that you pulled this stunt that i dont want your Villa anymore .He says he didnt do the agreement the agent said if i can save you money can i have a share , he obviously said yes but now regrets it !!. The Notary says i will give you 5 minutes to decide what to do , and leaves the room .

I pop down stairs to see the Mrs and see what she wants to do she is still furious and ranting about seperating the agents nostrils with a sledge hammer etc,etc.. The agents cleared off leaving just us to sort the mess out , the owner comes out gives the wife a hug and says sorry etc , we discuss it and have the paperwork altered and then we proceed .

So be warned this is such a easy scam for a seller and agent to pull off and i am sure if it hadnt been for the Notary speaking such good English then i am sure i would of now been looking to pay the sellers Tax liability in some 30 days time !!! As its such a small paragraph in Spanish amongst loads ..

The agents Schober and partners in Mallorca . were the agents but i bet its common ,so be careful ..

Suprised nobody commented on my escapade

[chris(madrid)]

'cos I've only just got in - THE MORAL OF THIS STORY IS

IF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN SPAIN - LEARN SPANISH.

[Big Pete]

Originally Posted by chris(madrid)

'cos I've only just got in - THE MORAL OF THIS STORY IS

IF YOU WANT TO LIVE IN SPAIN - LEARN SPANISH.

Ahh yes indeed Chris but people go there and only when they are set on staying will they bother to learn .. human nature .

Asta la vista

[jojo]

Pete, I'm glad you've pointed this little scam out - its something that could easily happen to us as our spanish is not up to much! the capitol gains aint cheap either is it!!!!!!!!!!

Jo

[Big Pete]

Originally Posted by jojo

Pete, I'm glad you've pointed this little scam out - its something that could easily happen to us as our spanish is not up to much! the capitol gains aint cheap either is it!!!!!!!!!!

Jo

Well seeings as the old boy was 70 and had lived there 20 years or so and had rebuilt and extended and added pool etc, i bet he paid about 5,000 for it .. So obviously his Capital gain is a few Thousand and if the Notary hadnt pointed it out and i know all about this stuff .. That would of been for me to pay whilst he was back in Germany with his fistful of Euros ..

So the importance of a Good Notary speaking English is a god send ..as a minimum a good translator who understands what its all about ..

[chris(madrid)]

Originally Posted by Big Pete

Ahh yes indeed Chris but people go there and only when they are set on staying will they bother to learn .. human nature .

I am then NOT HUMAN. When I decided to live outside the UK (Germany) I went already near fluent. Spain was a bit different but I did by then have Spanish family (the missus). Take it not personal - but not doing so is simply arrogance. It's something the English speaking peoples (in general) are not good about. Look at French/Romainians/Italians etc - Most arrive speaking more than just a smattering. Maybe not fluent - but enough to get out and find work. Most Germans I know are trilingual. Many speak 4 languages - most I know are doctors (or their families) though.

I'm left a bit cold (sorry) by folk who simply expect the locals to speak their tongue. In the UK you'd get little sympathy if you simply started off in <insert language>. You'd get a "Bloody foreigner - comes here and cant even speak English" look.

And no - I would not consider myself a gifted linguist.

Hasta not Asta btw ;-) - Its a silent AICH.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - NOTARIOS are a must. They'll point out stuff they feel is out of context - they did when we bought our house as the mortgage terms were EXCEPTIONALLY good and he thought the bank had made an error.

One point - there is an partial issue here with it being a GERMAN. When I first went out to Germany I was rather shocked to find it is normal for sellers to pay a huge part of what in the UK would be considered a sellers responsibility (I never got to CGTax). Nobody batted an eyelid when I left and applied the same rules. Given that the seller and seems to be the agent are German - maybe (to soem extent) they were playing by German rules.

But the fact the NOTARIO picked up on it suggests they were trying it on - btw WHO HIRED THE TRANSLATOR?

[decgraham]

What happened to the solicitor? when I bought my property my solicitor went through the contract and explained everything. She spoke fluent English, having worked in the UK conveyencing for 8 years so was able to draw any parallels. She attended the notary and took care of everything. A very smooth transaction, I always say get the best legal advice you can afford, advice that comes recommended there are some duff solicitors in Spain. I learnt the hard way, but luckily it didn’t cost me too much, I knew more about my legal position than he did! It hurts when you pay but the long term benefits are worth it.

[chris(madrid)]

Originally Posted by decgraham

...there are some duff solicitors in Spain.

That's a bit harsh - The simple fact is that solicitors protect their clients. If the solicitor represents the seller then.......

Naturally there are some that are much better than others - EVERYWHERE. The one that handled my grandfathers will in the UK was incompetent - but was executor so.....

I used one here for "labour" issues that made even the Huge partnerships hide (actually Run&Hide).

[decgraham]

Trust me it wasn't harsh concerning this solicitor, (Abogado) all he wanted was a stack of money up front to pursue a court case, when all I wanted was a legal opinion as to my rights. I knew I could negotiate a better deal and did so. Court in my experience is the last place you want to finish up in. The only people who make money are the solicitors!