Teaching English in Valencia

[Clemmie00]

Hi everyone!

I am strongly considering moving to Spain (we're particularly interested in Valencia) with my partner. I know the crisis is really bad there, but we've been told that the chances of finding work as English teachers are quite good.

We both have the CELTA (he will also have the DELTA soon) and four years of full time experience and are currently teaching in good schools in London. We both have experience of teaching business classes, kids and exam classes such as IELTS and the Cambridge FCE/CAE.

We're doing OK here in London but the size of the city, our commute, the crime levels and the pollution are not doing our mental and physical health much good. We feel like we've had our time here and it's time to move on. It's also not great to be living in a city with so much to do but not have the money to enjoy it. We're paying over 1000 pounds a month to rent an apartment which is 45 minutes from work (by train) and over 160 a month each for a monthly travelcard. The hourly rates for TEFL teachers in Spain are lower (although we've been told 12 euro an hour is the absolute minimum for qualified, experienced teachers), but the cost of living seems to be much lower. We mostly enjoy doing 'free' things like hanging out in the park or at the beach and we just don't have the weather here to be able to do that.

I speak Spanish well as I have lived in Spain before and am hoping to reach an advanced level within a few months. My partner has an elementary level, but I would expect him to become conversational pretty quickly. Our main reasons for moving would be improved quality of life (the weather is a big one) and the opportunity to immerse ourselves in the Spanish language. We don't expect to get rich, but also don't want to be scraping by.

What do you think? Are we being totally unrealistic? It feels like we're giving up quite a lot but in reality, our jobs in London are not all that secure (I don't even have a guaranteed hours contract and could theoretically be let go at any time for any reason). We will work out a back-up plan (such as going to another country like Korea where work is guaranteed) for if things don't work out by Christmas but we don't want to waste our time either.

[jojo]

I wouldnt risk it. At least in the UK, should you lose your jobs you'll get benefits and free healthcare in the UK. Also there is mass unemployment in Spain which wont make it easy for you to find regular work. Spain is a harsh country, its in crisis and you would probably live a very precarious lifestyle, apart from that things really are no different in Spanish cities, crime, pollution commute distances.... You could achieve what you are looking for easier by moving to a smaller town within the UK.

Spain has recently introduced a new ruling whereby you need to prove and income and healthcare provisions before you can be granted residencia http://www.expatforum.com/expats/spa...il-2012-a.html

Jo xxx

[Clemmie00]

I see what you mean, but we're already living a precarious lifestyle here. We don't know from one week to the next how much work we'll have and our rent is crippling when hours at work are scarce. If we had job security here, we probably wouldn't leave, but we really don't. We might be entitled to the dole if we lost our jobs, but I definitely wouldn't want to live on that. We'd move abroad as soon as possible. The thing is that with this career, our skills aren't valued as much in the UK as they are abroad. We've worked in the Far East for the money and benefits (such as free accommodation) but for now, we want somewhere with good weather and a more chilled out lifestyle.

To be honest, staying in the UK isn't an option for us right now. We basically just have no reason to be here other than the NHS. Neither of us have family here (he's not British and I was brought up abroad), we don't particularly have a social network here, the TEFL situation isn't great in a country full of qualified native English speakers. The question isn't whether to go, but where to go. We might come back in the future, but it seems silly to stay when we have one of the few jobs which makes it very easy to travel and work abroad. I don't think either of us have the 'grass is greener' syndrome - we've both lived and worked abroad and I've lived in Spain before (although it was before the crisis) so we're not expecting miracles.

I was led to believe that Valencia is extremely walkable and that the metro system is very good and very fast, so commuting shouldn't take more than about 20 minutes. I've contacted a few teacher friends in Spain and some academies and they reckon there is work, but I suppose you don't know for sure until you hit the ground. I should reiterate that this isn't a long term plan (not for the moment, anyway) - we know there's definitely no teaching work around in the summer, so we intend to be there from September to June - 9 or 10 months at most before we move on somewhere else.

Those new rules about residency requirements worry me as they seem very unclear. I'll definitely look into that, but if we find work shortly after arriving, wouldn't that most likely be enough? If we don't find work by Christmas, we'll be leaving anyway.

[xabiachica]

Originally Posted by Clemmie00

I see what you mean, but we're already living a precarious lifestyle here. We don't know from one week to the next how much work we'll have and our rent is crippling when hours at work are scarce. If we had job security here, we probably wouldn't leave, but we really don't. We might be entitled to the dole if we lost our jobs, but I definitely wouldn't want to live on that. We'd move abroad as soon as possible. The thing is that with this career, our skills aren't valued as much in the UK as they are abroad. We've worked in the Far East for the money and benefits (such as free accommodation) but for now, we want somewhere with good weather and a more chilled out lifestyle.

To be honest, staying in the UK isn't an option for us right now. We basically just have no reason to be here other than the NHS. Neither of us have family here (he's not British and I was brought up abroad), we don't particularly have a social network here, the TEFL situation isn't great in a country full of qualified native English speakers. The question isn't whether to go, but where to go. We might come back in the future, but it seems silly to stay when we have one of the few jobs which makes it very easy to travel and work abroad. I don't think either of us have the 'grass is greener' syndrome - we've both lived and worked abroad and I've lived in Spain before (although it was before the crisis) so we're not expecting miracles.

I was led to believe that Valencia is extremely walkable and that the metro system is very good and very fast, so commuting shouldn't take more than about 20 minutes. I've contacted a few teacher friends in Spain and some academies and they reckon there is work, but I suppose you don't know for sure until you hit the ground. I should reiterate that this isn't a long term plan (not for the moment, anyway) - we know there's definitely no teaching work around in the summer, so we intend to be there from September to June - 9 or 10 months at most before we move on somewhere else.

Those new rules about residency requirements worry me as they seem very unclear. I'll definitely look into that, but if we find work shortly after arriving, wouldn't that most likely be enough? If we don't find work by Christmas, we'll be leaving anyway.

however precarious it is for you in the UK, chances are it will be much worse here

however.......... if it's just the 2 of you & you can support yourselves from savings for 3 months, then you might as well give it a try - if you feel that you can take a chance of using all your savings & ending up with nothing

you can come for 90 days before you register as resident .- & use your EHIC for emergency medical treatment

if you do get work, hopefully by then we'll all know where we stand as far as income requirements for residency are concerned - & that you will be earning enough to satisfy them

[Clemmie00]

Originally Posted by xabiachica

however precarious it is for you in the UK, chances are it will be much worse here

however.......... if it's just the 2 of you & you can support yourselves from savings for 3 months, then you might as well give it a try - if you feel that you can take a chance of using all your savings & ending up with nothing

you can come for 90 days before you register as resident .- & use your EHIC for emergency medical treatment

if you do get work, hopefully by then we'll all know where we stand as far as income requirements for residency are concerned - & that you will be earning enough to satisfy them

Why is it worse, though? Not being confrontational, but genuinely curious that we've missed something. We have no job security, no pension, no holiday pay, no sick pay, rubbish weather, a 'yob' culture which seems to getting worse and worse. We feel like we're putting a lot in, paying 25% tax, and not getting much back besides the NHS. We're working hard and we feel like we don't get to enjoy it. We can't really afford to live in London, but London (and other big, expensive cities) is where the TEFL work is in the UK, so it's a vicious circle really.

We're paying out so much here in rent and living costs that a sudden reduction in hours can be disastrous. We figured that in Spain, with rent being so much lower, we could always dip into savings to cover our costs for a month or two if it all went pear shaped and we ended up finding nothing and looking elsewhere. At least we would have learned a lot of Spanish, had a change of scenery and got some sun. And that would hopefully be a worst case scenario. We have been told by people living in Valencia, perhaps too optimistically, that as experienced and qualified teachers, we're likely to find decent jobs.

[jojo]

Can I just say that however bad you think UK benefits are, dont judge them til you seen a country that doesnt have them. In Spain if you havent paid into the system, you dont get anything at all, even then theres a time limit! I used to knock the UK and yes, the benefit system is exploited, but having lived in Spain for four years, I think the UK is great - especially in a crisis. the nanny state does what "nannies" do - look after those who need it!

I'm back in the UK now and altho I miss Spain, the ease of life here is infinitely better.... and no, I'm not on benefits, my husband has a good business and I found work easily enough, altho it is lovely to know the health service is available and that should our ivory tower ever fall down, we wont have to live on the streets begging!

Work in Spain isnt easy to find, you'll be up against millions of others who already live there and are desperate. You maybe lucky and as a couple with no ties it maybe worth the risk, but it wont be easy. Spain is a harsh country and its in crisis


Jo xxx

[xabiachica]

Originally Posted by Clemmie00

Why is it worse, though? Not being confrontational, but genuinely curious that we've missed something. We have no job security, no pension, no holiday pay, no sick pay, rubbish weather, a 'yob' culture which seems to getting worse and worse. We feel like we're putting a lot in, paying 25% tax, and not getting much back besides the NHS. We're working hard and we feel like we don't get to enjoy it. We can't really afford to live in London, but London (and other big, expensive cities) is where the TEFL work is in the UK, so it's a vicious circle really.

We're paying out so much here in rent and living costs that a sudden reduction in hours can be disastrous. We figured that in Spain, with rent being so much lower, we could always dip into savings to cover our costs for a month or two if it all went pear shaped and we ended up finding nothing and looking elsewhere. At least we would have learned a lot of Spanish, had a change of scenery and got some sun. And that would hopefully be a worst case scenario. We have been told by people living in Valencia, perhaps too optimistically, that as experienced and qualified teachers, we're likely to find decent jobs.

for a start unemployment is 3x that of the UK


as a self employed teacher you will have to pay 250+€ a month NI whether you earn anything or not - & tax on top of that.............. EACH

you might be lucky though & get a contracted job - but they are few & far between

what happens to you in the UK if work dries up completely? Can you get JSA or whatever the benefit is nowadays?

you wouldn't get anything here - nothing

I'm a self-employed teacher - I teach Spanish to non-Spanish people as well as English as a foreign language - I also tutor GCSE maths, Spanish & English

I used to work for an academy - but can command a much higher hourly rate self-employed, and can to an extent dictate my hours..although my dds are teenagers, I like to be home for lunch with them when they finish school at 2pm, be available for homework help & not work too many evenings. With the academy I would be working til 10:30 pm at night, having had my first class at 9am........... but maybe only 3 hours work in the entire day

I have built my business over quite some years & now have a large base of students & several large groups which provide me with a good hourly rate, so I don't have to work every waking hour - though it sometimes feels like I do anyway

I am VERY aware though, that if I get sick, or my work dries up - there is NOTHING in the way of support for me & my daughters -NOTHING.......and if I stop paying my NI/autónoma payment - we won't even have healthcare

as I said, though - if you're willing to risk your savings, give it a try

[Clemmie00]

Originally Posted by jojo

Can I just say that however bad you think UK benefits are, dont judge them til you seen a country that doesnt have them. In Spain if you havent paid into the system, you dont get anything at all, even then theres a time limit! I used to knock the UK and yes, the benefit system is exploited, but having lived in Spain for four years, I think the UK is great - especially in a crisis. the nanny state does what "nannies" do - look after those who need it!

I'm back in the UK now and altho I miss Spain, the ease of life here is infinitely better.... and no, I'm not on benefits, my husband has a good business and I found work easily enough, altho it is lovely to know the health service is available and that should our ivory tower ever fall down, we wont have to live on the streets begging!



Jo xxx

I've never used any state benefits here except for the NHS. I've only worked in the UK full time for 2 years now and I don't see much of a difference, to be honest. As a childless, employed adult, I'm not really entitled to anything here. Sure, I'd get the dole if I lost my job, but it's so little for someone in my position that I'd rather do just about anything else to avoid it. There are so many jobs in other countries crying out for native English teachers that it would be crazy to stay here and live on the dole.

How expensive is healthcare in Spain? I have lived in other countries, including the US, and had no problem with getting health insurance and using the local systems which were always very good. Is it very difficult to sort out in Spain?

[xabiachica]

Originally Posted by Clemmie00

I've never used any state benefits here except for the NHS. I've only worked in the UK full time for 2 years now and I don't see much of a difference, to be honest. As a childless, employed adult, I'm not really entitled to anything here. Sure, I'd get the dole if I lost my job, but it's so little for someone in my position that I'd rather do just about anything else to avoid it. There are so many jobs in other countries crying out for native English teachers that it would be crazy to stay here and live on the dole.

How expensive is healthcare in Spain? I have lived in other countries, including the US, and had no problem with getting health insurance and using the local systems which were always very good. Is it very difficult to sort out in Spain?

private healthcare is not especially expensive here

but if you're working you'll be paying NI in one form or another & be able to use the state healthcare

yes, many countries are crying out for native english teachers - Spain isn't exactly crying out for them though - more that English teachers are crying out for work

as I said - there IS work - whether there's actually enough to legally support yourselves & satisfy the residency requirements is another matter

[Clemmie00]

Originally Posted by xabiachica

for a start unemployment is 3x that of the UK


as a self employed teacher you will have to pay 250+€ a month NI whether you earn anything or not - & tax on top of that.............. EACH

you might be lucky though & get a contracted job - but they are few & far between

what happens to you in the UK if work dries up completely? Can you get JSA or whatever the benefit is nowadays?

you wouldn't get anything here - nothing

I don't want to go autonomo - I was told that working in several academies as an employee was definitely doable in Valencia city. Yes, I'd probably be entitled to a small amount of JSA here in the UK if I lost my job entirely, but we'd pack up and leave as soon as possible. I have the option of staying at my parents' house for a few weeks until I make other arrangements and my partner could do the same in a pinch.

I'm a self-employed teacher - I teach Spanish to non-Spanish people as well as English as a foreign language - I also tutor GCSE maths, Spanish & English

I used to work for an academy - but can command a much higher hourly rate self-employed, and can to an extent dictate my hours..although my dds are teenagers, I like to be home for lunch with them when they finish school at 2pm, be available for homework help & not work too many evenings. With the academy I would be working til 10:30 pm at night, having had my first class at 9am........... but maybe only 3 hours work in the entire day

I have built my business over quite some years & now have a large base of students & several large groups which provide me with a good hourly rate, so I don't have to work every waking hour - though it sometimes feels like I do anyway

I am VERY aware though, that if I get sick, or my work dries up - there is NOTHING in the way of support for me & my daughters -NOTHING.......and if I stop paying my NI/autónoma payment - we won't even have healthcare

as I said, though - if you're willing to risk your savings, give it a try

We're at very different stages of life, though. I wouldn't mind working until late at night, I do that here. I don't have kids to worry about. It's never even occurred to me to think about getting state benefits if work dried up because it's generally easier just to move on. If I had kids in a Spanish school, I'd have to be much more careful but as it's just me and my partner, we're thinking along the lines of, we can always go back to the UK or try another country if it doesn't work out.

Still, we don't want to go there to fail. If there's that little chance of finding work, we'd be better off elsewhere. We have contacts in South America and Asia. We we just really hoping we might have a chance in Spain because that's where we really want to live.