Changes to Residency requirements for EU citizens in Spain April 2012 Discussion

[Solwriter]

Originally Posted by gus-lopez

yes it's in here as well.
Health reforms approach in Spain

Unfortunately there's nothing they can do if you are already registered as a 'permanent resident' , as per my last post.

Agreed.

But (and as I mentioned on my other post ) what about those people who have moved to Spain in good faith, intent on becoming legal residents, but are caught up in the process of trying to obtain their green card at this very moment?

Do you know, if I was thinking about moving to Spain now, even with enough funds to guarantee I could support myself, I really would think twice.
Who can say what is going to happen a few years down the line (even for those who have planned down to the finest detail)?

And it is all very well to say that EU rules prevent EU citizens who become permanent residents of Spain from being treated as second class citizens with less rights, but tell that to the official who insists he or she knows the rules better than you do, or to a hospital clerk who insists your health card is out of date and refuses treatment.
(and then trying arguing your case in rapid Spanish...)

It would put me off, I can tell you.
And I'm not exactly the shy, retiring type.

[gus-lopez]

Originally Posted by Solwriter

Agreed.

But (and as I mentioned on my other post ) what about those people who have moved to Spain in good faith, intent on becoming legal residents, but are caught up in the process of trying to obtain their green card at this very moment?

Do you know, if I was thinking about moving to Spain now, even with enough funds to guarantee I could support myself, I really would think twice.
Who can say what is going to happen a few years down the line (even for those who have planned down to the finest detail)?

And it is all very well to say that EU rules prevent EU citizens who become permanent residents of Spain from being treated as second class citizens with less rights, but tell that to the official who insists he or she knows the rules better than you do, or to a hospital clerk who insists your health card is out of date and refuses treatment.
(and then trying arguing your case in rapid Spanish...)

It would put me off, I can tell you.
And I'm not exactly the shy, retiring type.

I fully agree. You can't plan here on the basis that they all work to the same rules, if they know them ! I plan on the basis that they will always attempt to find some reason NOT to issue the health card/licence/whatever & work out , on the basis that they only know vaguely what the requirements are for whatever they are supposed to be employed to do, what possible reasons they are likely to come up with to deny issuing anything. Hopefully then I've got all the answers /paperwork to cover anything they are likely to ask or want!

It's a ridiculous way to go about things but experience has taught me that I can more or less be guaranteed to come out with whatever the people require the 1st time.
Fortunately I don't do it all that often & then only if there's no way I can get out of it ! It's bad enough doing it for yourself let alone unpaid for someone else!

[Solwriter]

The more I look at the new rules on who can apply for and be granted residency, together with the new state healthcare proposals, the more it seems to me that the Spanish Government is intent on making sure they collect as much tax as possible, but are floundering on ways to do this.

And it also seems to me that some of the delays experienced by those applying to be residents are because someone, somewhere understands EU rules and realises that it is not easy at all to expel an EU citizen, even more so once they are a permanent resident in Spain.

Understandable of course, the country needs tax payments badly, but there are ways they could actually get much more revenue and boost the economy, like (as proposed in other threads here) making it easier for small businesses to start up and to operate legally.
But that's off track.... I just wish they would get their act together on this, once and for all.
But I guess they have more important things to consider at the moment. Like the rise in borrowing costs....

[Pesky Wesky]

All of this is
DOING
MY
'EAD
IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Solwriter]

Originally Posted by Pesky Wesky

All of this is
DOING
MY
'EAD
IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry!!!

[Pesky Wesky]

Originally Posted by Solwriter

Sorry!!!

No, no, no.
Not you!!
The whole new regulation thing - AKA we haven't got a clue what we're doing, thing. Is it this, is it that, will it effect me/ him/ them??? They should think it out properly from the beginning, think about all the different groups and sub groups of the population and how they'll be affected, and inform. I mean, they do do this for a living, don't they? Imagine if you and I ran our businesses like this??!!

[Solwriter]

Originally Posted by Pesky Wesky

No, no, no.
Not you!!

I know. I was joking.

Originally Posted by Pesky Wesky

The whole new regulation thing - AKA we haven't got a clue what we're doing, thing. Is it this, is it that, will it effect me/ him/ them??? They should think it out properly from the beginning, think about all the different groups and sub groups of the population and how they'll be affected, and inform. I mean, they do do this for a living, don't they? Imagine if you and I ran our businesses like this??!!

Couldn't agree more.

[gus-lopez]

Originally Posted by Pesky Wesky

No, no, no.
Not you!!
The whole new regulation thing - AKA we haven't got a clue what we're doing, thing. Is it this, is it that, will it effect me/ him/ them??? They should think it out properly from the beginning, think about all the different groups and sub groups of the population and how they'll be affected, and inform. I mean, they do do this for a living, don't they? Imagine if you and I ran our businesses like this??!!

On another local forum I use this has been an ongoing topic for months. One lady deals with the EU regularly & on one of the replies from the EU they stated that they were utterly amazed that they were unable to get an answer to a straightforward question ,at Ministerial level, in Spain ! They said that they got the impression that "no one really had any idea" & they found it "quite worrying".
they should think themselves lucky they don't have to deal with them regularly !

[JTapas]

Hope someone can help me out here- i'm pretty much at the end of my tether! I'm from the UK and have been working in Andalucia for 18 months over the last two years and have held an NIE number which I have never had to change despite moving from Cadiz to Granada last September. However, at some point during this move, I must have mislayed the original copy of my NIE certificate (the A4 sized green piece of paper rather than the neat little card that a few lucky ones seem to have). I realized this soon afterward and although I knew I would have to replace it, I wasn't too alarmed at the time because my photocopy seemed to suffice in any case that I needed to present the certificate.

Now, as an Engish Teacher I will not be employed this summer and had planned to claim el paro (dole). Most will know that in order to do this you absolutely have to have an original copy of the NIE. This occured to me about three months ago so I decided to get the ball rolling. The ball, however, has rolled so painfully slowly that I now find myself at the end of my 9-month contract still without an actual NIE certificate.

I've been pinged about countless offices all over Granada, having been instructed to pay this, obtain that, take that there blah blah you get the picture. Two and a half months down the line I finally have everything in order and take the lot with me to la oficina de extranjero...only to be told that because of some law that is currently undergoing 'change', the administration of NIEs, whether brand new or simply duplicates, is now unpermitted. They told me to go to la oficina del empleo to ask for a 'written NIE', of which I was very dubious, in order to be able to claim dole. Of course, upon my arrival, the utterly disinterested woman staring back at me over her desk gives me that sort of 'what the hell are you on about and what do you expect me to do about it?' look.

I think I want to cry. Please help me somebody

[Solwriter]

Originally Posted by JTapas

I've been pinged about countless offices all over Granada, having been instructed to pay this, obtain that, take that there blah blah you get the picture. Two and a half months down the line I finally have everything in order and take the lot with me to la oficina de extranjero...only to be told that because of some law that is currently undergoing 'change', the administration of NIEs, whether brand new or simply duplicates, is now unpermitted. They told me to go to la oficina del empleo to ask for a 'written NIE', of which I was very dubious, in order to be able to claim dole. Of course, upon my arrival, the utterly disinterested woman staring back at me over her desk gives me that sort of 'what the hell are you on about and what do you expect me to do about it?' look.

I think I want to cry. Please help me somebody

Don't know if this will help or not, but when things like this happen to me, I go back to the office where I was told 'go here and you will be able to do that' and ask them to phone the office they are sending me to and confirm that what they are telling me will happen can actually happen, and get a name of a person I will be able to contact there.

We have had things like this happen so many times, that now we will not leave one office to visit another without at least some form of confirmation that we are not being simply fobbed off.
We are never rude or disrespectful about this, just smilingly insistent.