Endesa Estimated bills

[voxmagna]

Hi, I've just joined this forum and wonder if somebody can add to this:

I had my contract electricity power increased to 5.75 kW and they came and fitted a new remote reading (GSM?) meter. I checked the reading when we left for a stay in UK and sure enough the correct reading appeared on our next bill.

Then the next bill was an estimate, based on the same time last year with a large credit in the following bill after a 'real' reading. I asked Endesa why I received an estimated bill, when the meter can now be interrogated remotely. This was their reply:

Tras analizar su solicitud, nos ponemos en contacto con usted, informándole que el Real Decreto 1578/2008 establece que la lectura real del contador se realizará bimestralmente, de tal forma que se alternarán facturas en base a consumos reales con facturas en base a consumos estimados. Para realizar las lecturas estimadas nos basamos en una media del consumo que registró en el mismo período el año anterior.

....which basically says they are allowed to keep sending out bills based on estimated readings, even though you may have a smart meter fitted.

It seems to me there is no real advantage in having a remote reading meter and this is just a license for Endesa to keep on an army of meter readers pushing up their electricity costs.

Does anybody know if this is just an Endesa thing, or would I get my smart meter read every time by another electricity company if I switched?

Thanks - Vox

[snikpoh]

Originally Posted by voxmagna

Hi, I've just joined this forum and wonder if somebody can add to this:

I had my contract electricity power increased to 5.75 kW and they came and fitted a new remote reading (GSM?) meter. I checked the reading when we left for a stay in UK and sure enough the correct reading appeared on our next bill.

Then the next bill was an estimate, based on the same time last year with a large credit in the following bill after a 'real' reading. I asked Endesa why I received an estimated bill, when the meter can now be interrogated remotely. This was their reply:

Tras analizar su solicitud, nos ponemos en contacto con usted, informándole que el Real Decreto 1578/2008 establece que la lectura real del contador se realizará bimestralmente, de tal forma que se alternarán facturas en base a consumos reales con facturas en base a consumos estimados. Para realizar las lecturas estimadas nos basamos en una media del consumo que registró en el mismo período el año anterior.

....which basically says they are allowed to keep sending out bills based on estimated readings, even though you may have a smart meter fitted.

It seems to me there is no real advantage in having a remote reading meter and this is just a license for Endesa to keep on an army of meter readers pushing up their electricity costs.

Does anybody know if this is just an Endesa thing, or would I get my smart meter read every time by another electricity company if I switched?

Thanks - Vox

We have one of those meters in one of the flats that we let. Like you I enquired why they weren't using the technology to take readings and the answer I got was that until ALL meters were changed, NONE of them would be remotely read!

In other words, they will never use the new technology whilst they have that sort of mentality!

[voxmagna]

Originally Posted by snikpoh

We have one of those meters in one of the flats that we let. Like you I enquired why they weren't using the technology to take readings and the answer I got was that until ALL meters were changed, NONE of them would be remotely read!

In other words, they will never use the new technology whilst they have that sort of mentality!

Thanks I was starting to come around to that. Why would they want to use the technology when they have an army of meter readers to pay wages and pensions to and severence pay if they lay them off AND are coining in interest free receipts from their direct debits to our bank accounts AND we are paying the banks through our charges for more transactions than really necessary? This is big business at the expense of consumers.

I think Spains Euro debt crisis may occur sooner than all meters being converted to smart types. Of course there's another issue that's going to surface. Different private companies are producing these meters and they don't all use the same data specifications. I can foresee future wranglings over who actually owns the intellectual property and access to them.

[voxmagna]

Originally Posted by voxmagna

Thanks I was starting to come around to that. Why would they want to use the technology when they have an army of meter readers to pay wages and pensions to and severence pay if they lay them off AND are coining in interest free receipts from their direct debits to our bank accounts AND we are paying the banks through our charges for more transactions than really necessary? This is big business at the expense of consumers.

I think Spains Euro debt crisis may occur sooner than all meters being converted to smart types. Of course there's another issue that's going to surface. Different private companies are producing these meters and they don't all use the same data specifications. I can foresee future wranglings over who actually owns the intellectual property and access to them.

OK I've dreamed up a plan. If you are in permanent residence it is simpler as you can just read your meter and give them your readings. I'm not and making several visits per year. 2 years ago I had spent time doing building jobs on a couple of occasions with higher than normal electricity consumption.

ENDESA only take an actual reading every two months and use an estimated reading based on the same month in the previous year for alternate months when they have no readings (even with a Smart meter!).

In my case with a couple of high useage months, their cycle of over estimates will never be broken. ENDESA online accepts customer meter readings. From now on my personal organiser is programmed to remind me alternate months and 3 days before their bill date to send them a reading. If my property has been left empty it will be based on the reading I took when I shut off the electricity or their previous actual reading. If I was running a fridge, I would base my estimate on their last actuall reading. If you look at your ENDESA bills online you can easily work out the alternating dates for Lectura Estimada and Lectura real.

If ENDESA wants to dispute my customer reading they can always read their smart meter themselves. I'll let you know after the first estimated reading I give them if this works or not.

Incidentally, your privacy is not so good as you might think. Now the electricity companies have computerised their billing, the Hacienda have access to that information and can track the electricity consumption use of your Spanish property.

[steve_in_spain]

All seems quite rediculous… on the news today I heard that they are prosing a 20% increase in electricity costs over the next year (10% this summer and 10% next year). Yet they have technology in place to save them potentially millions on the costs of a) reading the meters, and b) the administration of dealing with manual readings… Bonkers!

[mrypg9]

Originally Posted by steve_in_spain

All seems quite rediculous… on the news today I heard that they are prosing a 20% increase in electricity costs over the next year (10% this summer and 10% next year). Yet they have technology in place to save them potentially millions on the costs of a) reading the meters, and b) the administration of dealing with manual readings… Bonkers!

Ahh..but it would put more people out of work....

[audrie]

please help..we are getting bill from endesa for average e300 to e450 each mth..we have a small house with no air con and no heating and just a few lights!...we just cannot get through to endesa to come and check the meter...a friend tried who is spanish but they still did not come.....this is so wrong but after hours and money spent on thr phone..it just cuts off........i have tried the website to give the meter reading but that just cuts off as well !!!...so frrustrating and so expensive...i know there is something seriously wrong with the electric but have no idea what to do!...any help would be appreciated.

[voxmagna]

Originally Posted by audrie

please help..we are getting bill from endesa for average e300 to e450 each mth..we have a small house with no air con and no heating and just a few lights!...we just cannot get through to endesa to come and check the meter...a friend tried who is spanish but they still did not come.....this is so wrong but after hours and money spent on thr phone..it just cuts off........i have tried the website to give the meter reading but that just cuts off as well !!!...so frrustrating and so expensive...i know there is something seriously wrong with the electric but have no idea what to do!...any help would be appreciated.

I can only suggest a few things. First you must be sure there is nobody illegally tapping into your electricity or there is no electricity being used due to a fault.

Go find your meter. Turn off your electricity at the switch in your house then see if your meter has the disc going around (old style meter) or has a flashing red light (new style meter). If the meter is going around or the light is flashing then electricity is being used when your supply is off!

Now go and put the main switch back on and turn off the lights/aircon, water heater, washing machine and anything else you think is using electricity. Then go check the meter, if the disc is going around fast or the red light is flashing quickly your house is using electricity for something or there is a fault causing electricity to be used.

When you go to your meter, write down the code number of your meter. Then get the last (large) electricity bill and see if that meter code ties up. If it doesn't then Endesa are billing you from somebody elses meter readings.

Check your (high) bill for the words Lectura REAL (That is an actual meter reading) and Lectura ESTIMADA (That is an estimated reading). Look at the numbers and see if they have any similarity to the reading on your meter. If they don't, they are billing you for somebody elses meter.

They base their estimates on the same month in the previous year, which is why I said it's a good idea to feed them your readings in the alternate months they don't read. Even if you were out by an amount, I don't think it would matter because to dispute your reading they would have to come and read the meter!

Have you registered yourself on the ENDESA web site yet so you can see all your past bills online? You have to do this first before you can send meter readings. Registering is a bit quirky to say the least, but even without Spanish, you can use the Babelfish translator to get an idea of the questions. They ask for identification. If you have a copy of your original contracto, fill in the web forms using that information. If you originally gave them a passport number which has been replaced, use the old passport number same as on the contract. It can take up to 48 hours to get the confirmation back you have online access to your account.

I think you should get your online ENDESA account up and running first, even with spanish help. Then you can check back on the information they have and their meter readings and send messages to customer services which you can prepare or have translated beforehand. Trying this over the phone speaking V little Spanish is extremely difficult.

Finally, are you sure you haven't had any 'Fines' put on your bill or put on at the same time a year ago? Ex Pats in different Spanish territories are not all treated the same with regard to the requirements for fitting ICP (read up on that).

Since I posted I have given them my reading online and been billed on that. This month it will be their actual reading (man calls). My electronic organizer and phone now remind me to give them a reading every alternate month. Eventually the unusually high consumption I had during building work a year ago, will work itself out - replaced by my readings for this year.

I hope that helps - Vox

[Bfpijuan]

Suggestions from husband: check contract for how much you are contracted for, should be less than five kws. Could be faulty meter, call an electrician. Someone tapping your line, again an electrician. All the above fails, take bills to consumer affairs office.

[Bfpijuan]

One more thing, if you live outside of city, maybe you contracted for paying for the lines?