Why on earth would anyone want to move to SA?!

[Johanna]

Originally Posted by Daxk

Johanna, just some quick questions,
were there no Black graduates in SA from 1948 to 1993?
(I agree that Bantu Education was a travesty)
read up on the poor White Situation in SA 1930-1950
there was also Job reservation and limited Education possibilities.

ext: its been 18 years.
the only reason someone with a University degree cannot do his work is because he is incompetent or lazy.
and using job reservation is no excuse.

As whites we were priviledged.
how long before that stops being an excuse?

Daxk, you know very well that there were black graduates ( from SA universities)
But compare the numbers ( let's be honest now!) .... many more whites than blacks. Not fair! You said yourself Bantu education was a travesty.
It has only been 18 years, thus a child born in 1994 may be in grade 12 now, or just be starting university.
I wish could post an interview with Prof Jonathan Jansen...... was on Carte Blanche last Sunday. Children in poor areas still receive very bad education.

I do not think it is fair of white people to think that 18 years is sufficient time to "get over" the past.

Would you have been able to get over the fact that you, your parents, grandparents did not receive humane treatment?

Please, give the people of this country a chance. Everyone wants to be happy, healthy, etc.

Job reservation was a criminal thing, why do we not have black plumbers, electricians, etc.... whites only jobs in the past.

Okie dokie, I am off for the evening!

[Daxk]

Originally Posted by Johanna

Daxk, you know very well that there were black graduates ( from SA universities)
But compare the numbers ( let's be honest now!) .... many more whites than blacks. Not fair! You said yourself Bantu education was a travesty.
It has only been 18 years, thus a child born in 1994 may be in grade 12 now, or just be starting university.
I wish could post an interview with Prof Jonathan Jansen...... was on Carte Blanche last Sunday. Children in poor areas still receive very bad education.

I do not think it is fair of white people to think that 18 years is sufficient time to "get over" the past.

Would you have been able to get over the fact that you, your parents, grandparents did not receive humane treatment?

Please, give the people of this country a chance. Everyone wants to be happy, healthy, etc.

Job reservation was a criminal thing, why do we not have black plumbers, electricians, etc.... whites only jobs in the past.

Okie dokie, I am off for the evening!

CHicken!!!!

My Grandparents and great grandparents did NOT recieve Humane treatment.
but thats a searate thread as I dont wish to embarrass our English visitors with the sins of their Forefathers.

I think 20 years is sufficient to start working together (thats how long its actually been) without attitudes of either entitlement or aggrievement.
on both sides.

Electricians/plumbers and tradesmen average age in SA is 50 plus.
One of the Companies I was involved with set up apprenticeship training schemes
through the SETAS Levy (skills training levy)
we offered Training, lectures under the auspices of NUMSA and the various guilds, paid pocket money and transport costs as well as feeding them breakfast, lunch and a 3pm snack.
work, training and pocket money.
we were allowed to run it according to AA rules, 9.3 white 9.75 coloured, balance black.
we started with one hundred.
18 qualified.
one was black.
first question?
what company car do I get as an electrician?

Black education IS a disaster.
why??
because the first thing Kadar Asmal did as the new Education Minister is close 150 Teachers training Colleges.
the very ones that had created and trained every teacher that you or I had, with study loans and student accomodation.
next thing, all teachers had to get a B.Ed, which was a 4 year course after which they got paid exactly half of the similar B.Proc or B.Sco Sc HR degrees did and no Company Car..

Result? massive loss of teachers

where exactly is that the fault of the past?

I can go on and on, through the Justice Department, SAPS, Eskom, Municipalities....

[Saartjie]

Originally Posted by Halo

Worked with Lawyers all the time do get through my various contracts.... So, I know the pay range and with that you can most certainly afford a private school unless the old man is on the Dole.

My posts are direct - Not rude... Learn the difference.

Bles.... Yes - Man do I miss that... Plank Music was my all time favorite watching 100 crazed individuals run around in circles with powder on the floor - Highly amusing.

Sadly however the numbers do NOT stack up. Perhaps in Saartjie's case its an anomaly but professional people in the UK are paid well and can live in an area where there are good state schools or reasonably priced private ones. Then there is health care, insurance and all the other bells and whistles that come free in the UK..... (you never did say where you lived in the UK - If bad you could move)

You obviously already know how much I earned in the UK so what's the point of arguing with you. My husband has always earned more than me and has never been on the Dole although I am not sure what that has to do with anything. I have told you previously where I lived in the UK. It was Chelmsford but I worked in London. So my area I would not consider bad but I did move... to SA. Not sure what private schools you sent your kids to (I assume that you did since you know how much it costs) but the one's we looked at where far too expensive for us to even consider.

As to being direct, if that's what you want to call it, be my guest.

[Saartjie]

Originally Posted by Johanna

Whom did you address this reply to Halo?

It is for me Johanna, can't you tell. He just never ends. If my initial reply had been read properly like everyone else seems to have read it, this conversation would have been over and done with a long time ago. It just seems hard to accept that I have a better life here in SA than I did in the UK. Not sure what is so strange about that? I mean, I am not the only one who has stated this.

[Johanna]

Originally Posted by Saartjie

It is for me Johanna, can't you tell. He just never ends. If my initial reply had been read properly like everyone else seems to have read it, this conversation would have been over and done with a long time ago. It just seems hard to accept that I have a better life here in SA than I did in the UK. Not sure what is so strange about that? I mean, I am not the only one who has stated this.

Not the whole posting Saartjie....

But thank you for your replies and attitude!

[Johanna]

Originally Posted by Daxk

CHicken!!!!

My Grandparents and great grandparents did NOT recieve Humane treatment.
but thats a searate thread as I dont wish to embarrass our English visitors with the sins of their Forefathers.

I think 20 years is sufficient to start working together (thats how long its actually been) without attitudes of either entitlement or aggrievement.
on both sides.

Electricians/plumbers and tradesmen average age in SA is 50 plus.
One of the Companies I was involved with set up apprenticeship training schemes
through the SETAS Levy (skills training levy)
we offered Training, lectures under the auspices of NUMSA and the various guilds, paid pocket money and transport costs as well as feeding them breakfast, lunch and a 3pm snack.
work, training and pocket money.
we were allowed to run it according to AA rules, 9.3 white 9.75 coloured, balance black.
we started with one hundred.
18 qualified.
one was black.
first question?
what company car do I get as an electrician?

Black education IS a disaster.
why??
because the first thing Kadar Asmal did as the new Education Minister is close 150 Teachers training Colleges.
the very ones that had created and trained every teacher that you or I had, with study loans and student accomodation.
next thing, all teachers had to get a B.Ed, which was a 4 year course after which they got paid exactly half of the similar B.Proc or B.Sco Sc HR degrees did and no Company Car..

Result? massive loss of teachers

where exactly is that the fault of the past?

I can go on and on, through the Justice Department, SAPS, Eskom, Municipalities....

What are saying about services is true, but do remember, basic education was not allowed to all people.

How can anyone expect untrained people to know what to do.

But the new government pushed ahead...... I think I would have too, seeing as the most basic of human rights were denied to the majority of the people..
We are easy to cast stones
40 years of apartheid ( official apartheid ) did a lot of damage, we all know that peoples were not allowed to "mix" in the olden days and long before "apartheid" was written into the statue books , it existed.

Daxk, let us discuss this privately please!

And then :


I am not a chicken ...


Not an ostrich either.... :

I am who I am!

[Halo]

Originally Posted by Saartjie

You obviously already know how much I earned in the UK so what's the point of arguing with you. My husband has always earned more than me and has never been on the Dole although I am not sure what that has to do with anything. I have told you previously where I lived in the UK. It was Chelmsford but I worked in London. So my area I would not consider bad but I did move... to SA. Not sure what private schools you sent your kids to (I assume that you did since you know how much it costs) but the one's we looked at where far too expensive for us to even consider.

As to being direct, if that's what you want to call it, be my guest.

Then you have no excuse...... An Essex girl hey :-) - I like that area....
St Annes Preparatoy School is easily affordable....

You'll soon see what the real cost of life is.

PS My kids go to a State School in Australia - I'm young still - Kinda.

[Halo]

Originally Posted by Johanna

What are saying about services is true, but do remember, basic education was not allowed to all people.

How can anyone expect untrained people to know what to do.

But the new government pushed ahead...... I think I would have too, seeing as the most basic of human rights were denied to the majority of the people..
We are easy to cast stones
40 years of apartheid ( official apartheid ) did a lot of damage, we all know that peoples were not allowed to "mix" in the olden days and long before "apartheid" was written into the statue books , it existed.

Daxk, let us discuss this privately please!

And then :


I am not a chicken ...


Not an ostrich either.... :

I am who I am!

This is nonsense.... Education was available to all............

This is not a pissing match but you have to take things in context.... And look at the global picture. In what country was their no apartheid? SA just coined a word. Get over it..... Be like the Japanese - Stop moaning and build.

[Johanna]

Originally Posted by Halo

This is nonsense.... Education was available to all............

This is not a pissing match but you have to take things in context.... And look at the global picture. In what country was their no apartheid? SA just coined a word. Get over it..... Be like the Japanese - Stop moaning and build.

Wow, you are certainly very well educated... why resort to swearing? Temper your language.

You know that black education was inferior to white education.

In Japan all people are Japanese.

If the thread continues in this vain, I will have to close it.

[Halo]

Originally Posted by Johanna

Wow, you are certainly very well educated... why resort to swearing? Temper your language.

You know that black education was inferior to white education.

In Japan all people are Japanese.

If the thread continues in this vain, I will have to close it.

Its an English saying.... (google it) - Change the word if you wish.

And your point? It happened everywhere..... Sure it does not make it right but its how the world worked... We learn and we move on.

Its not in vain - Its just the unwillingness to grok.

Lets not fabricate reality...... Bantu education was of a lesser standard but was better than what the rest of Africa had....(or still has) What do you know about African History..?

SA is a complex environment.. True understanding is required.