Why on earth would anyone want to move to SA?! - Page 2

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Why on earth would anyone want to move to SA?! - Page 2


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Old 15th January 2012, 05:46 PM
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Here's a link some people might find useful. It's from the SA government, and pertains to SA's future demographic. (link at end of post)

If you turn to the table between pages 9 and 10, it gives some numbers as to how SA will become more "African" in the future. This may be a good thing, or not a good thing. Depends on what individuals prefer. If you calculate the population race proportions for (example) ages 15-19, whites make up 6.5%. For the older members of our society, at ages 70-74, white males make up a staggering 22% of the male population. Long story short, you can see how, as you move down in age groups, non-white populations become proportionally smaller. At 0-4 it currently sits at a humble 5.5%.

What does this mean? Well, it means that if you have a primarily European disposition, you may find that the South African infrastructure and way of doing things in years gone by, is less and less conspicuous to you. South Africa, once viewing itself as "Europe in Africa", is now starting assume it's place as a true African state. This is a natural metamorphosis, and ultimately was always viewed as being an inevitable result of the handover of power to the local population. It has been this way throughout Africa when colonialization runs it's course.

Cape Town is seen by many as the last bastion of white supremacy in the country. Capetonians point the finger at Johannesburg, and proclaim that they are grateful not to inhabit "that place". This is a notion that is both racist and misguided. South Africa's future is black, no city will be excluded, Johannesburg and Pretoria just tend to be ahead of the curve in this regard.

As I said before, I am not saying that white countries are better, or that black countries are better, they are just different. If you want to move to a country with a solid future that offers much of what SA offers in terms of weather, infrastructure and geography, but without the Africanization aspect, Australia is a good choice.

As SA continues to Africanize, be prepared to pay a higher and higher premium to keep a hold of amenities that you (white people) once took for granted under the apartheid regime. You will now need to budget approximately 1 million rand per child to see them through their private school years and through university. Public school is not an option. Be prepared to pay about R1800 per month for hospital insurance privately (if not covered by employer) - you definitely don't want to go to a state hospital. If you move to Gauteng, prepare for toll fees (hopefully they'll be scrapped if the government has an iota of sense), and a reasonable sized house will cost you about R2500/month in water and electricity. Keep in mind that the Rand will likely weaken further as debates about nationalization and redistribution of wealth continue, and as the Euro struggles. This will drive inflation of imported goods especially. Prepare to pay about 60% more for a car in SA than in the US in real terms.

However, it is true, it's a beautiful country - a world in one country some might say. If you can afford it, if you have family and friends in SA that can set any returning expat up with a well paying job, then SA may be a good option for you. Do keep in mind though that if you are white, you must understand this is no longer a white man's country. Government, and most likely your future employer will not offer you any advantages for being a minority race group (BEE, Affirmative action etc are examples of the governments Africanization agenda - not right or wrong, just the truth).

On the other hand, if you have family here, or you have earned a wad of cash in a strong foreign currency, you can live like a king here, and who knows, maybe never have to work again.

Here's the raw data:
Oh, okay, says I can't post a link because I'm not worthy.

Google: "P03022011.pdf" and you'll get the StatsSA PDF of demographics from 2011.
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Old 15th January 2012, 06:03 PM
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Interesting Post, Charles 3, what the document does not adequately take into account is that if SA's neighbours are showing 40% HIV rate and pregnant mothers in SA are Showing 33% HIV rate
then its likely that SA's Population is sitting at between 30-40% HIV rate with a lifespan of 20 years at most.
Some provinces are already showing negative population growth (KZN is an example) and fairly soon Illness will start affecting teenagers before Puberty.

Whites have a very low Birthrate as do Asians.
the only other Group that is showing a decline in HIV rate and an increase in both Birt as well as Education rates is the Coloured Community (Mulatto for our American readers)

I agree with your synopsis on white future in SA but think that the exponential curve of HIV is going to reduce SA's population as follows.
30% Black
30+% Coloured,
5% white.
5+% Indian Asian
15%+ plus Chinese imports.
Balance Black immigrants.

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Old 15th January 2012, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by concord View Post
Well, people are different so they have different opinions. I guess most of people who moved from South Africa because of crime agree with me.
You say "go out and look around"... Basically I can't... Probably if I tell you that is not safe for me (a white female) to WALK not to DRIVE a car then will you tell me I'm wrong? Since we didnt apply for my temporary residency and I dont have a job we can't afford buying a car for me so I can "enjoy this wonderful place" only out of my window with bars.
I think I mentioned that I lived in a safe place so it was natural for me to go where I want. Our local kids were playing in the yard. could visit each other without being supervised by adults. I'd love my kids to have the same.
Hello Concord,

Thanks for your insights into moving to SA as a female. I understand what you're saying about feeling confined by the security and general dangers that exist in public spaces in SA. However, I'm a guy, so it's obviously different for me, but I was thinking of having my girlfriend come over to SA from Canada for a while.

I know she would not like to feel like she was constricted in her options to move around, walk about in the streets etc. SA is a very private society. You live in your gated house, get in the car, drive to a gated shopping mall etc, get back in the car and go straight into your private yard. I don't see many girls walking around by themselves. Not white girls at least. In fact, I don't see many white people walking around on streets etc at all.

I was wondering if you're tried walking out in the public sphere, and if so, did you feel threatened? Did anyone look at you funny? Shout rude comments? Just wondering because I want to know what it would be like for my GF, and I just don't see any girls doing there own thing here and I've been here for months.

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Old 15th January 2012, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Daxk View Post
Interesting Post, Charles 3, what the document does not adequately take into account is that if SA's neighbours are showing 40% HIV rate and pregnant mothers in SA are Showing 33% HIV rate
then its likely that SA's Population is sitting at between 30-40% HIV rate with a lifespan of 20 years at most.
Some provinces are already showing negative population growth (KZN is an example) and fairly soon Illness will start affecting teenagers before Puberty.

Whites have a very low Birthrate as do Asians.
the only other Group that is showing a decline in HIV rate and an increase in both Birt as well as Education rates is the Coloured Community (Mulatto for our American readers)

I agree with your synopsis on white future in SA but think that the exponential curve of HIV is going to reduce SA's population as follows.
30% Black
30+% Coloured,
5% white.
5+% Indian Asian
15%+ plus Chinese imports.
Balance Black immigrants.
Yep, I think they deal with that around page 5. The true numbers may be higher, but it looks like you can work with around 10% for the total population, obviously higher in some race groups and in certain age brackets. So, yes, I'm not sure if the numbers quoted in that document have already incorporated the HIV aspect into their final estimates. Since they have the info in the same document, I suppose this is a possibility, but unlikely. Net emigration and immigration aren't taken into account either.

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Old 16th January 2012, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles III View Post
Hello Concord,

Thanks for your insights into moving to SA as a female. I understand what you're saying about feeling confined by the security and general dangers that exist in public spaces in SA. However, I'm a guy, so it's obviously different for me, but I was thinking of having my girlfriend come over to SA from Canada for a while.

I know she would not like to feel like she was constricted in her options to move around, walk about in the streets etc. SA is a very private society. You live in your gated house, get in the car, drive to a gated shopping mall etc, get back in the car and go straight into your private yard. I don't see many girls walking around by themselves. Not white girls at least. In fact, I don't see many white people walking around on streets etc at all.

I was wondering if you're tried walking out in the public sphere, and if so, did you feel threatened? Did anyone look at you funny? Shout rude comments? Just wondering because I want to know what it would be like for my GF, and I just don't see any girls doing there own thing here and I've been here for months.
I know this message was not for me but I can share my experience, being a white foreign female living in SA. I have been here for almost a year and a half. In that time I have never felt threatened, no one has ever looked at me funny or shouted rude comments. It's just not like that here at all. I feel comfortable going to places on my own or with other girl friends. I have never felt like I cannot go outside. SA is what you make of it. If you decide that all black people hate all the white people then you are going to feel threatened. The reality is somewhat different for sure. I am not in any way trying to glorify SA but for me it works just fine.
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Old 16th January 2012, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles III View Post
Hello Concord,

I was thinking of having my girlfriend come over to SA from Canada for a while.

I don't see many girls walking around by themselves. Not white girls at least. In fact, I don't see many white people walking around on streets etc at all.

I was wondering if you're tried walking out in the public sphere, and if so, did you feel threatened? Did anyone look at you funny? Shout rude comments? Just wondering because I want to know what it would be like for my GF, and I just don't see any girls doing there own thing here and I've been here for months.
You got a reply from Saartjie and she says she feels quite comfortable and not restricted at all. However she doesnt mention if she has a car. But you question was if a white girl can WALK on the street.
I'm pretty sure people will agree with me that everything depends on where you live. I have a girlfriend who lives in a very small town where she says everybody knows each other. There she can walk wherever she wants. She doesnt have any fear at all.
But I dont see many white girls walking in Cape Town (I guess they do their own things using a car). And if you drive in Johannesburgh within an hour you wont see a white face not even mentioning a white female walking on the street.
My opinion could be different because I've spent only a month here so I'm still scared of everything and everybody after reading so much about crime in SA.
You see it depends on people's priorities. For me Canada is the best place to live so I'd never leave it for SA. But your GF might be different, she'll come and fall in love with the local nature. I'd say that's the only thing which is better in SA than in Canada.

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Old 16th January 2012, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concord View Post
You got a reply from Saartjie and she says she feels quite comfortable and not restricted at all. However she doesnt mention if she has a car. But you question was if a white girl can WALK on the street.
I'm pretty sure people will agree with me that everything depends on where you live. I have a girlfriend who lives in a very small town where she says everybody knows each other. There she can walk wherever she wants. She doesnt have any fear at all.
But I dont see many white girls walking in Cape Town (I guess they do their own things using a car). And if you drive in Johannesburgh within an hour you wont see a white face not even mentioning a white female walking on the street.
My opinion could be different because I've spent only a month here so I'm still scared of everything and everybody after reading so much about crime in SA.
You see it depends on people's priorities. For me Canada is the best place to live so I'd never leave it for SA. But your GF might be different, she'll come and fall in love with the local nature. I'd say that's the only thing which is better in SA than in Canada.
Sorry, forgot to mention that yes I do have a car (would be lost without one I admit since I have a daughter who I need to drive to nursery every day). I totally agree that it depends upon where you live. We live in Kensington (Joburg) and I have had no problems walking around there. Still I would not walk around Joburg CBD on my own for example. While we were in Cape Town I spend a lot of time on my own on foot and never encountered any problems. It takes a while to get used to life here and I think (and hope ) that once you have been here for a bit longer (and possibly have the use of a car) you might feel more comfortable.

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Old 16th January 2012, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concord View Post
You got a reply from Saartjie and she says she feels quite comfortable and not restricted at all. However she doesnt mention if she has a car. But you question was if a white girl can WALK on the street.
I'm pretty sure people will agree with me that everything depends on where you live. I have a girlfriend who lives in a very small town where she says everybody knows each other. There she can walk wherever she wants. She doesnt have any fear at all.
But I dont see many white girls walking in Cape Town (I guess they do their own things using a car). And if you drive in Johannesburgh within an hour you wont see a white face not even mentioning a white female walking on the street.
My opinion could be different because I've spent only a month here so I'm still scared of everything and everybody after reading so much about crime in SA.
You see it depends on people's priorities. For me Canada is the best place to live so I'd never leave it for SA. But your GF might be different, she'll come and fall in love with the local nature. I'd say that's the only thing which is better in SA than in Canada.
Thanks Concord. Yep, unfortunately SA is a very car centric society, which can be fun as well. The highway system here is 2nd to none, and most of the country roads are fine too (except for potholes). Anyway, yeah, if you don't have your own car, things will be a bit tricky here. The problem is how do you define freedom? Some people think SA lacks freedom, because of lack of public transport, high walls and gates, but I personally feel more free here than in the UK for instance, which is really just a yob infested welfare state on the verge of collapse (hence all the Brits trying their hardest to get the hell out of there and come to SA, Oz, or even the US). From my many trips there, I feel more at threat in the UK due to always having to be in contact with the drudges of society on tubes, busses etc.

Anyway, back on topic, yes I live in JHB, and my GF is a cute blonde, and I get the sense she'll really stick out on a urban street. That's ok in Sandton, Melrose, or the surrounding areas, but you must stick to the pockets of "normality" I suppose. You need the car to get from one "safe zone" to another. Last thing I want is for something weird to happen to her. Might have to buy a second car, and get a gym and country club membership I suppose, since going for a jog through JHB does not seem possible as it would be in a normal city.


Last edited by Charles III; 16th January 2012 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 16th January 2012, 05:56 PM
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I would suspect that most people have cars as the public transport really isn't efficient enough. As far as walking around is concerned we live in Cape Town and honestly don't give it a second thought. I don't have bars on my windows, an electric fence or own a gun. My 21 year old daughter drives around alone at night to and from the city and feels quite safe.

I am sure that this will not apply throughout South Africa but I certainly feel very safe in Cape Town.
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Old 16th January 2012, 06:08 PM
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I would suspect that most people have cars as the public transport really isn't efficient enough. As far as walking around is concerned we live in Cape Town and honestly don't give it a second thought. I don't have bars on my windows, an electric fence or own a gun. My 21 year old daughter drives around alone at night to and from the city and feels quite safe.

I am sure that this will not apply throughout South Africa but I certainly feel very safe in Cape Town.
Alverm,not disputing it at all, which suburb in CT are you in?
free standing house or in a security estate?
just Curious

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