Why on earth would anyone want to move to SA?!

[Halo]

Originally Posted by susieusa

Having lived both in the Uk and SA, I would choose SA any day over the UK. However, there are many aspects of life in SA which one must become accustomed to: barred windows and doors, 8-10 foot walls around property topped with razor wire and electric fencing, power gates...Starting a business isn't as quick as one would suspect. Government moves too slow. Best to go for an extended visit - a year maybe - before making a final decision.

Where in the UK have you lived?

[vegasboy]

Great to see all my partners in crime are still on the forum giving informative advice to those thinking that South Africa is la-la land - and I don't mean this in a derogatory way. I LOVE South Africa, but I am forced by the direction this country is headed to take proactive steps, which I have thankfully been working on for the last few years and now reaping the benefits in the USA.

As we have said so many times on this forum, if you are moving to South Africa with foreign currency and you have no kids to raise, be my guest - you can afford the private security, private health care, private education etc. and SARS needs your taxes. Pravin Gordan said that the total social "wage" a poor family of four receives from the state equals about R3900 pm. Economist Dawie Roodt noted that from a perspective of what they put in vs. what they receive (in South Africa) it makes sense for the poor to stay poor. Our taxes are literally used to keep the masses alive, and very little left for infrastructure and maintenance.

I will however remain unapologetic and outspoken without reservation, and pursue my advocacy on this issue as strong and as often as I can: If you have kids or planning to have in future and you can afford to emigrate to another country, DO IT. We can debate this issue until the end of time, young people in South Africa do not have a future here. I know, I have 3. You are doing your child a disfavor raising them in South Africa. I am willing to challenge anyone on this.

Google the 'broken window' principle. Our communities and infrastructure are deteriorating rapidly, not to even mention poverty, crime, corruption and entitlement.

Yes, people like myself and a few others on this forum have a tendency to do 'visionary scenario analysis' which may give the impression of being negative. We predict what is to come based on personal experience, statistics etc. and it is not rocket science to come to a conclusion.

Of course someone who immigrates to South Africa or have no way of getting out would have to defend their decision and be blinded by the truth, hence constantly being on the defense.

But heck, South Africa remains a beautiful place. What a waste.

[WhenweB]

Originally Posted by vegasboy

Great to see all my partners in crime are still on the forum giving informative advice to those thinking that South Africa is la-la land - and I don't mean this in a derogatory way. I LOVE South Africa, but I am forced by the direction this country is headed to take proactive steps, which I have thankfully been working on for the last few years and now reaping the benefits in the USA.

As we have said so many times on this forum, if you are moving to South Africa with foreign currency and you have no kids to raise, be my guest - you can afford the private security, private health care, private education etc. and SARS needs your taxes. Pravin Gordan said that the total social "wage" a poor family of four receives from the state equals about R3900 pm. Economist Dawie Roodt noted that from a perspective of what they put in vs. what they receive (in South Africa) it makes sense for the poor to stay poor. Our taxes are literally used to keep the masses alive, and very little left for infrastructure and maintenance.

I will however remain unapologetic and outspoken without reservation, and pursue my advocacy on this issue as strong and as often as I can: If you have kids or planning to have in future and you can afford to emigrate to another country, DO IT. We can debate this issue until the end of time, young people in South Africa do not have a future here. I know, I have 3. You are doing your child a disfavor raising them in South Africa. I am willing to challenge anyone on this.

Google the 'broken window' principle. Our communities and infrastructure are deteriorating rapidly, not to even mention poverty, crime, corruption and entitlement.

Yes, people like myself and a few others on this forum have a tendency to do 'visionary scenario analysis' which may give the impression of being negative. We predict what is to come based on personal experience, statistics etc. and it is not rocket science to come to a conclusion.

Of course someone who immigrates to South Africa or have no way of getting out would have to defend their decision and be blinded by the truth, hence constantly being on the defense.

But heck, South Africa remains a beautiful place. What a waste.

Well Vegasboy that is very interesting and of course I do take what you have said on board. BUT you know - what you say about the youth / children not having a future in SA is exactly what is being said about the kids in UK!!!! My daughter goes to one of the better government schools in our area and its very multicultural with both Eastern European and Asian children being a significant portion of the school body. This isn't a problem per say as the issues concerning my opinion of my daughters future education here is more to do with all the beaurocratic paperwork which bogs down the teachers when they should be teaching, the general deterioration of the English language due to colloquialisms and dialects having to be taken into consideration (I refer to the staff at a PRIVATE school in which I worked saying "was you" to children and "them books" not to mention "drinking worah" and "having respek". Add to that the concerns about high university tuition, lack of places in said universities, no jobs when they leave school and lets not forget the fact that most of them feel (and quite rightly) that they are better off being on benefits with babies and free housing etc than actually getting a job. I was watching a programme not so long ago where they were discussing the fact that the children doing English Literature at GCSE and A level don't even have to read the book they are studying as they just get tested on specific paragraphs. How the heck can you "study" The Mill on the Floss withouth reading it? Also there is a problem with teens binge drinking here and the government feels that adding a couple of pence to the price of wine in the shops will change this..... I could go on but seeing as you are living in USA should I talk about the schooling / future of kids there.....???? What I am saying is that all countries have their problems. Education can be obtained in any country where the child is willing and is supported by parents just like a private schooling in Switzerland will not guarantee a good education to a spoilt brat who knows nothing of the real world. I know lots of youngsters in SA who have received an enducation there and are leading successful rewarding lives. At Government schools in Cape Town I may add not the private schools. My daughter is bright and being left to her own devices in the UK school whilst they focus on the children not meeting targets. She is doing tennis in a hall and swims in an indoor pool. She wants to do hockey and dancing but because she is doing tennis and there is only a limited amout of children that can use the hall at one time she can only do the one sport and let other children do the other sports. Wouldn't she be better off in an SA school doing sports outdoors on proper fields in the sunshine? Who knows what her future holds in 10 years time but the temptation to improve her years as a child is very very strong so I am not sure if your argument will convince many people who are wanting to return to SA for a better life for their children now hoping that their child will have a future in SA or failing which be able to go to another country and use their good foundation there???

[Saartjie]

Originally Posted by vegasboy

Great to see all my partners in crime are still on the forum giving informative advice to those thinking that South Africa is la-la land - and I don't mean this in a derogatory way. I LOVE South Africa, but I am forced by the direction this country is headed to take proactive steps, which I have thankfully been working on for the last few years and now reaping the benefits in the USA.

As we have said so many times on this forum, if you are moving to South Africa with foreign currency and you have no kids to raise, be my guest - you can afford the private security, private health care, private education etc. and SARS needs your taxes. Pravin Gordan said that the total social "wage" a poor family of four receives from the state equals about R3900 pm. Economist Dawie Roodt noted that from a perspective of what they put in vs. what they receive (in South Africa) it makes sense for the poor to stay poor. Our taxes are literally used to keep the masses alive, and very little left for infrastructure and maintenance.

I will however remain unapologetic and outspoken without reservation, and pursue my advocacy on this issue as strong and as often as I can: If you have kids or planning to have in future and you can afford to emigrate to another country, DO IT. We can debate this issue until the end of time, young people in South Africa do not have a future here. I know, I have 3. You are doing your child a disfavor raising them in South Africa. I am willing to challenge anyone on this.

Google the 'broken window' principle. Our communities and infrastructure are deteriorating rapidly, not to even mention poverty, crime, corruption and entitlement.

Yes, people like myself and a few others on this forum have a tendency to do 'visionary scenario analysis' which may give the impression of being negative. We predict what is to come based on personal experience, statistics etc. and it is not rocket science to come to a conclusion.

Of course someone who immigrates to South Africa or have no way of getting out would have to defend their decision and be blinded by the truth, hence constantly being on the defense.

But heck, South Africa remains a beautiful place. What a waste.

I do not feel the need to defend my decision at all. Not at all sure why I would need to to be honest. The decision that I have taken for my family and my daughter I have taken because I thought it was a good decision and I still think that it is. I think that my daughter when she starts school will have access to much better education here than she would have in the UK. Yes we are in the lucky position that we will be able to afford private school should we want it for her. Yes we have medical aid and all the other benefits that money can buy here. Don't really see the problem with this, here we can afford a very good life and in the UK we could not. I cannot give an opinion on the States as I have never lived there but I am sure you have made a great decision for your three children. As usual I do not feel the urge to condemn other peoples decisions, we all make the decisions that we think is best for our families. I mean why would anyone take a decision relating to their family which they did not think was a good one? I am glad you are happy with your decision to move to the States and that Daxk is happy to have moved to Ireland and sad Halo thinks that OZ is paradise on earth, it is just sad that all of you spend so much time brewing over the rest of us who has made the decision to move to SA. Enjoy your time in your new country and stop fretting over us here in SA, we are all doing just fine.

[Halo]

Better education in SA - Are you for real ? (not even close)

I don't understand how you were "poor" in the UK and now suddenly in SA you can afford all the luxuries.... I smell a rat.

As someone said - Its not rocket science.

[WhenweB]

Originally Posted by Halo

Better education in SA - Are you for real ? (not even close)

I don't understand how you were "poor" in the UK and now suddenly in SA you can afford all the luxuries.... I smell a rat.

As someone said - Its not rocket science.

Halo as someone living in UK now I can understand exactly what Saartjie is saying and why. She is spot on and I agree with what she has said. It isn't rocket science as you say but I don't smell a rat its all very clear.

[Daxk]

Originally Posted by Saartjie

I do not feel the need to defend my decision at all. Not at all sure why I would need to to be honest. The decision that I have taken for my family and my daughter I have taken because I thought it was a good decision and I still think that it is. I think that my daughter when she starts school will have access to much better education here than she would have in the UK. Yes we are in the lucky position that we will be able to afford private school should we want it for her. Yes we have medical aid and all the other benefits that money can buy here. Don't really see the problem with this, here we can afford a very good life and in the UK we could not. I cannot give an opinion on the States as I have never lived there but I am sure you have made a great decision for your three children. As usual I do not feel the urge to condemn other peoples decisions, we all make the decisions that we think is best for our families. I mean why would anyone take a decision relating to their family which they did not think was a good one? I am glad you are happy with your decision to move to the States and that Daxk is happy to have moved to Ireland and sad Halo thinks that OZ is paradise on earth, it is just sad that all of you spend so much time brewing over the rest of us who has made the decision to move to SA. Enjoy your time in your new country and stop fretting over us here in SA, we are all doing just fine.

Saartjie and Whenwe, are all Schools in the UK, and all Counties in the UK like that?
are most of the people in the UK on the Dole?

because thats the impression your post indicates..

[Saartjie]

Originally Posted by Halo

Better education in SA - Are you for real ? (not even close)

I don't understand how you were "poor" in the UK and now suddenly in SA you can afford all the luxuries.... I smell a rat.

As someone said - Its not rocket science.

There are a lot of things that you do not understand but we have already established that.

I never said that I was poor in the UK. I was a lawyer then and I am a lawyer now, I just earn more money now and so does my husband and our expenses are far less.

If you smell a rat your nose is probably too close to your mouth.

[Saartjie]

Originally Posted by Daxk

Saartjie and Whenwe, are all Schools in the UK, and all Counties in the UK like that?
are most of the people in the UK on the Dole?

because thats the impression your post indicates..

Not sure where you get that impression. Where have I said that all schools are the same in the UK. I was speaking from a personal point of view. That is why I said that my daughter will have better access to education here. I was comparing where we lived in the UK to here, nowhere else in the UK. The Dole comment I don't get either. I didn't mention that.

[Daxk]

Originally Posted by WhenweB

Well Vegasboy that is very interesting and of course I do take what you have said on board. BUT you know - what you say about the youth / children not having a future in SA is exactly what is being said about the kids in UK!!!! My daughter goes to one of the better government schools in our area and its very multicultural with both Eastern European and Asian children being a significant portion of the school body. This isn't a problem per say as the issues concerning my opinion of my daughters future education here is more to do with all the beaurocratic paperwork which bogs down the teachers when they should be teaching, the general deterioration of the English language due to colloquialisms and dialects having to be taken into consideration (I refer to the staff at a PRIVATE school in which I worked saying "was you" to children and "them books" not to mention "drinking worah" and "having respek". Add to that the concerns about high university tuition, lack of places in said universities, no jobs when they leave school and lets not forget the fact that most of them feel (and quite rightly) that they are better off being on benefits with babies and free housing etc than actually getting a job. I was watching a programme not so long ago where they were discussing the fact that the children doing English Literature at GCSE and A level don't even have to read the book they are studying as they just get tested on specific paragraphs. How the heck can you "study" The Mill on the Floss withouth reading it? Also there is a problem with teens binge drinking here and the government feels that adding a couple of pence to the price of wine in the shops will change this..... I could go on but seeing as you are living in USA should I talk about the schooling / future of kids there.....???? What I am saying is that all countries have their problems. Education can be obtained in any country where the child is willing and is supported by parents just like a private schooling in Switzerland will not guarantee a good education to a spoilt brat who knows nothing of the real world. I know lots of youngsters in SA who have received an enducation there and are leading successful rewarding lives. At Government schools in Cape Town I may add not the private schools. My daughter is bright and being left to her own devices in the UK school whilst they focus on the children not meeting targets. She is doing tennis in a hall and swims in an indoor pool. She wants to do hockey and dancing but because she is doing tennis and there is only a limited amout of children that can use the hall at one time she can only do the one sport and let other children do the other sports. Wouldn't she be better off in an SA school doing sports outdoors on proper fields in the sunshine? Who knows what her future holds in 10 years time but the temptation to improve her years as a child is very very strong so I am not sure if your argument will convince many people who are wanting to return to SA for a better life for their children now hoping that their child will have a future in SA or failing which be able to go to another country and use their good foundation there???

Sorry Saartjie, the question was at Whenwe's post, my apologies.