Spousal visa - Work endorsement Help Please

[timhulse]

Originally Posted by Joaschim

Hi Tim

In your case I would advise adding a Business Endorsement to the Spousal Permit. This will allow you to operate your own business.

Adding the Business Endorsement is slightly more complicated than the work endorsement, as there are more logistical and legal things to take into consideration when running a businesses.

For an application form used in South Africa is a different on than used when applying at the SA embassies, yes, as you would now be applying for a change of condition on your current permit.

Trust this answers your questions for now.

Thanks for that, do you know where I can get a look at the Business Endorsement form so I can check exactly whats needed to get this. And do you know how long this takes? Obviously I don't want to actually purchase the business and then find that I am having problems getting a visa to actually run it.

Thanks, Tim

Originally Posted by timhulse

Thanks for that, do you know where I can get a look at the Business Endorsement form so I can check exactly whats needed to get this. And do you know how long this takes? Obviously I don't want to actually purchase the business and then find that I am having problems getting a visa to actually run it.

Thanks, Tim

Hi

There is no special form for the endorsement. General information is on the generic application form, and some details in the legislation. There are further requirements which have come up over time, which you can try to obtain from Affairs, although you might find this very furstrating as a lot of information and feedback is inconsisten and at time conflicting.

If you approach immigration companies, they would not provide more details than I have as they/we do charge for this kind of info.

Once submitted, Home Affairs currently takes 3-6 months to process a temporary residency application, although the official position of Home Affairs is 30 days. Trust me, that is not the case!

If the application is submitted at a South African embassy, it would take about 10-15 days for the application to be processed.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Joachim

[Skilled]

Hello Joachim

I was wondering if you can help me as well. I applied and got a Quota Work Permit. Good heh? No, thanks. The regional office i used to apply for the permit, captured the application details incorrectly and eventually I got a Quota Work Permit with wrong information. My permit does not state the professional category i applied for. It should state something like

"to work under the category of ICT. Section 19(1) report to the DHA after 90days and every year"

But,

it says to work for XYZ company. This is a company that i used to work for and its letter was a proof of the required experience.

When i went for the assistance, i was told to fill a "change of conditions" form which effectively means I have to wait again.

Do you think there is a shorter way of rectifying the problem?

Originally Posted by Skilled

Hello Joachim

I was wondering if you can help me as well. I applied and got a Quota Work Permit. Good heh? No, thanks. The regional office i used to apply for the permit, captured the application details incorrectly and eventually I got a Quota Work Permit with wrong information. My permit does not state the professional category i applied for. It should state something like

"to work under the category of ICT. Section 19(1) report to the DHA after 90days and every year"

But,

it says to work for XYZ company. This is a company that i used to work for and its letter was a proof of the required experience.

When i went for the assistance, i was told to fill a "change of conditions" form which effectively means I have to wait again.

Do you think there is a shorter way of rectifying the problem?

Hi

Seems like something that Home Affairs would do. I have see this before, and unfortunately you will need to approach Home Affairs to have this corrected. With the changes at Home Affairs this should not take too long (let's stay optimistic), but you are correct.

Unfortunately there is little that I can add, as you have the correct information. There is no shorter route to have the permit corrected.

[irishexpat]

Hi,

I recently (February) renewed my (I hope) spousal permit. I had previously been studying and Wits and residing with my SA spouse, according to the sticker on my passport. Then I received a job offer.
I applied for an endorsement on my permit on March 23. As you suggest is the process, they demanded all my documents again as if it was a new application. I discovered a month later that they had not officially received the application. Back to Harrison St in Joburg with my receipt, where they found and "Accepted" my application.
I therefore called the helpline on 0800601190 to see if they could speed things up. They had me fax everything through.
A week later I called to check on progress. They advised me that I needed to send through further documentation - to be precise, all the documentation required for a general work permit.
I pointed out that I was applying for an endorsement, but it made no difference. As far as the helpline is concerned, there is no difference as the law had just changed. I asked for evidence of this, and they admitted that they had received no new instructions but had unilaterally applied these requirements based on the rumour that things might change. The operator advised that I simply wait for my original application to reach Pretoria and hope they apply the right criteria.

I'm still waiting for this, but in the meantime I notice that, although I specifically applied for a spousal visa, the sticker in my passport has "relatives" written on it.
So my questions are:

1. As my most recent application is effectively a new one for a spousal visa with work endorsement for my new job, should I worry about the "relatives" written on the current one?

2. If they drag out this process for much longer, what can I say to my employer who naturally wants to see a permit that says I can work?

3. If Home Affairs decide not to endorse me because they think they can unilaterally overturn constitutional court decisions, what can I do?

4. Isn't all of this - including the administrative requirement to incur expense, apply and wait for a new permit when - and not until - a job offer is received,a de facto breach of my constitutional rights and against the spirit of the constitutional court decisions in this matter?

Thanks all.

Originally Posted by irishexpat

Hi,

I recently (February) renewed my (I hope) spousal permit. I had previously been studying and Wits and residing with my SA spouse, according to the sticker on my passport. Then I received a job offer.
I applied for an endorsement on my permit on March 23. As you suggest is the process, they demanded all my documents again as if it was a new application. I discovered a month later that they had not officially received the application. Back to Harrison St in Joburg with my receipt, where they found and "Accepted" my application.
I therefore called the helpline on 0800601190 to see if they could speed things up. They had me fax everything through.
A week later I called to check on progress. They advised me that I needed to send through further documentation - to be precise, all the documentation required for a general work permit.
I pointed out that I was applying for an endorsement, but it made no difference. As far as the helpline is concerned, there is no difference as the law had just changed. I asked for evidence of this, and they admitted that they had received no new instructions but had unilaterally applied these requirements based on the rumour that things might change. The operator advised that I simply wait for my original application to reach Pretoria and hope they apply the right criteria.

I'm still waiting for this, but in the meantime I notice that, although I specifically applied for a spousal visa, the sticker in my passport has "relatives" written on it.
So my questions are:

1. As my most recent application is effectively a new one for a spousal visa with work endorsement for my new job, should I worry about the "relatives" written on the current one?

2. If they drag out this process for much longer, what can I say to my employer who naturally wants to see a permit that says I can work?

3. If Home Affairs decide not to endorse me because they think they can unilaterally overturn constitutional court decisions, what can I do?

4. Isn't all of this - including the administrative requirement to incur expense, apply and wait for a new permit when - and not until - a job offer is received,a de facto breach of my constitutional rights and against the spirit of the constitutional court decisions in this matter?

Thanks all.

Hi

One cannot add a work endorsement onto a Relative's Permit as per S18(2) of the immigration Act. One can, however, add a work or business endorsement to a Life Partner or Spousal Permit (kindly refer to S11(6) of the Immigration Act)

Many embassies issue Relative Permits instead of Life Partner/Spousal Permit, which is wrong, but it is difficutl getting them to change the way they do things. As posted previously, we are making progress with some embassies, but unfortunately not all.

Consequently, once a foreign national comes to South Africa and they want to work, we change their status to a Life Partner/Spousal permit and apply for an added work endorsement.

The law has not yet been implemented. It goes to Parliament one last time in mid June, after which it sill needs to be signed by the President before it becomes law. So in the end, nobody really knows when it will come into effect.

But even when this happens, the changes would not affect Life Partner permits.

In terms of the Constitution, Home Affairs would only be in breach if it were to forbid you from living here, unless there were reasonable grounds.

The Constitution, however, does not take away the legal obligation of every foreign national to comply with the requirements as set out in the Immigration legislation.

Thus, although it can be a great nuisance and perhaps financial burden to apply for a permit in order to live and work in South Africa, this does not infringe on your Constitutional Rights. It is frustrating but not illegal (unless you can prove that Home Affairs is specifically targeting you personally).

You can try to take Home Affairs to court, as many other have done, in order to have your case highlighted and hopefully expidite the processing. You may even try to claim for loss of income, but that in itself will prove time consuming and expensive.

Hope this helps.

[irishexpat]

Originally Posted by Joaschim

Hi

One cannot add a work endorsement onto a Relative's Permit as per S18(2) of the immigration Act. One can, however, add a work or business endorsement to a Life Partner or Spousal Permit (kindly refer to S11(6) of the Immigration Act)

Many embassies issue Relative Permits instead of Life Partner/Spousal Permit, which is wrong, but it is difficutl getting them to change the way they do things. As posted previously, we are making progress with some embassies, but unfortunately not all.

Consequently, once a foreign national comes to South Africa and they want to work, we change their status to a Life Partner/Spousal permit and apply for an added work endorsement.

The law has not yet been implemented. It goes to Parliament one last time in mid June, after which it sill needs to be signed by the President before it becomes law. So in the end, nobody really knows when it will come into effect.

But even when this happens, the changes would not affect Life Partner permits.

In terms of the Constitution, Home Affairs would only be in breach if it were to forbid you from living here, unless there were reasonable grounds.

The Constitution, however, does not take away the legal obligation of every foreign national to comply with the requirements as set out in the Immigration legislation.

Thus, although it can be a great nuisance and perhaps financial burden to apply for a permit in order to live and work in South Africa, this does not infringe on your Constitutional Rights. It is frustrating but not illegal (unless you can prove that Home Affairs is specifically targeting you personally).

You can try to take Home Affairs to court, as many other have done, in order to have your case highlighted and hopefully expidite the processing. You may even try to claim for loss of income, but that in itself will prove time consuming and expensive.

Hope this helps.

Just to be clear, I applied for a spousal permit and permission to continue studying in South Africa after my marriage in 2008 - having been resident legally on a student permit since 2004 - the sticker I got said "to continue studying and to reside with SA spouse".
I applied to renew that permit - but not to study having just finished - in December last year, at Harrison Street in Johannesburg, not abroad. I specifically applied for a spousal permit and provided the documentation required for such a permit.
It was renewed in March and says "to reside with SA spouse" but has relatives permit written on it. Is this an error in writing the permit out? Is there a number on the permit that would identify its purpose?
It seems it is incumbent on me then to ensure specifically that the local home affairs office files under S11(6) rather than S18(2) and not just trust them to know what the term "spousal visa" means.
The current application receipt is certainly for S11(6) so at least the right visa and endorsement is now being considered.

The constitutional rights I was referring to were those under Booysens and Others v Minister for Home Affairs and Another 2001 in the Constitutional Court which confirmed an earlier Cape High Court case, directed that the Department of Home Affairs may not refuse any application for a work permit from a foreign spouse unless good grounds can be proven for doing so, that the requirements for advertising, interviewing and checking whether sufficient South Africans are available were constitutionally invalid in the case of foreign spouses and that all such applications must be finalized within 30 working days.
This is the basis for immigration advice that I've been given, indeed I thought it was the basis for the spousal permit endorsement in the first place, if this is not the case I really need to know!

[Saartjie]

Hi,

After a lot of phoning around I have now finally managed to figure out where to go for my application.

I managed to get hold of an extremely helpful man at Home Affairs (yes I found one after speaking to about 20 useless people). I also realised that my residence permit states 'Relative' rather than 'Spousal'. After speaking to this guy I now understand that I have been issued with the wrong permit and that I can therefore not get a work endorsement on this. This is even though I used a lawyer here in SA to do my residence application for me.

The permit that I require is the s11(6) permit. I have an appointment next week with Home Affairs to submit a new application for this permit. I have to submit all my previous paperwork plus a letter offering employment.

I am so mad at the lawyer who applied for the wrong permit. I specifically told him that I wanted a spousal permit so that I could apply for work endorsement.

Anyway, hopefully this will now be sorted out, although I will not be calm until I have the new correct permit in my hand. As soon as I have that I will start my permanent residence application. Can't wait for that one for sure.

Saartjie

[Saartjie]

Originally Posted by irishexpat

Just to be clear, I applied for a spousal permit and permission to continue studying in South Africa after my marriage in 2008 - having been resident legally on a student permit since 2004 - the sticker I got said "to continue studying and to reside with SA spouse".
I applied to renew that permit - but not to study having just finished - in December last year, at Harrison Street in Johannesburg, not abroad. I specifically applied for a spousal permit and provided the documentation required for such a permit.
It was renewed in March and says "to reside with SA spouse" but has relatives permit written on it. Is this an error in writing the permit out? Is there a number on the permit that would identify its purpose?
It seems it is incumbent on me then to ensure specifically that the local home affairs office files under S11(6) rather than S18(2) and not just trust them to know what the term "spousal visa" means.
The current application receipt is certainly for S11(6) so at least the right visa and endorsement is now being considered.

The constitutional rights I was referring to were those under Booysens and Others v Minister for Home Affairs and Another 2001 in the Constitutional Court which confirmed an earlier Cape High Court case, directed that the Department of Home Affairs may not refuse any application for a work permit from a foreign spouse unless good grounds can be proven for doing so, that the requirements for advertising, interviewing and checking whether sufficient South Africans are available were constitutionally invalid in the case of foreign spouses and that all such applications must be finalized within 30 working days.
This is the basis for immigration advice that I've been given, indeed I thought it was the basis for the spousal permit endorsement in the first place, if this is not the case I really need to know!

Hi, my permit also states 'to reside with SA spouse' however it is still not a spousal visa but a relatives visa. I specifically asked for spousal but ended up with this.

Originally Posted by Saartjie

Hi,

After a lot of phoning around I have now finally managed to figure out where to go for my application.

I managed to get hold of an extremely helpful man at Home Affairs (yes I found one after speaking to about 20 useless people). I also realised that my residence permit states 'Relative' rather than 'Spousal'. After speaking to this guy I now understand that I have been issued with the wrong permit and that I can therefore not get a work endorsement on this. This is even though I used a lawyer here in SA to do my residence application for me.

The permit that I require is the s11(6) permit. I have an appointment next week with Home Affairs to submit a new application for this permit. I have to submit all my previous paperwork plus a letter offering employment.

I am so mad at the lawyer who applied for the wrong permit. I specifically told him that I wanted a spousal permit so that I could apply for work endorsement.

Anyway, hopefully this will now be sorted out, although I will not be calm until I have the new correct permit in my hand. As soon as I have that I will start my permanent residence application. Can't wait for that one for sure.

Saartjie

Hi Saartjie

Remember that immigration lawyers and immigration consultants deal with the same problems that you do. Nobody can control Home Affairs.

Assuming that the lawyer you used did everything correctly, these mistakes do happen, and with Home Affairs they happen a lot!

I would ask your lawyer for a complete copy of the application they submitted. There you will be able to see what they did. If the lawyer messed it up then demand that they redo it or demand a refund.

If you find that they did in fact complete the correct application, but the mistake happend with Home Affairs, then that is unfortunately another example of Home Affairs' inefficiency.

We immigration consultants and lawyers have the same problems with Home Affairs as you do. Multiply your frustration by the number of clients each of us have, and you can imagine what our work day looks like .

The difference is that those of us, who know what to do and who have the client's interest at heart, can pre-empt many mistakes, and we can make the necessary arrangements before hand. And of course we can quickly see where Home Affairs has meesed up, whereas often the applicant can tell the difference until it is too late.

Like I said, ask for a copy of your application from your lawyer and have a look at what they did. That should give you a good idea of who messed it up.

On the Permanent Residency, just to confirm that you have been in a relationship (or married) for 5 years. If not, then you do not yet qualify for Permanent Residency.

Regards,

Joachim