Johannesburg

[Hetal]

Hi

I have been offered an opportunity to relocate with my company to Johannesburg. My family [wife and two girls aged 6 and 3] are Brits but currently live in Bangkok and have also lived in the US - so we are aware of what being an expat is like.

The job I have been offered is great but my concerns are around living in Johannesburg and in particular:

- is it safe
- can we have a "normal" life - ie while I am at the office can my wife get around with the kids [without me] with out the fear of the horror stories I seem to be hearing all the time
- are there good international schools?
- are there things to do for the family?
- can we go out freely in the evenings? eg for dinner etc

It would be great to hear from expats living in Jburg and particualrly Sandton where my offices are.

Any useful advice / guidance would be really appreciated as I am torn in that the job offer from my company is great but I dont want to compromise my family's safety & quality of life for the job.

Thanks

Hetal

[Debi]

Hi Hetal,

I live in Johannesburg and I live near Sandton. I have lived here all my life and worked in Sandton.

First of all, of course you can go anywhere with your family. If you are going to live in Sandton it is a very affluent area. Yes you do have to worry about your car being hijacked, especially if it is a luxury car, but here we just learn to be vigilant. Like lock your car doors, don't get out of your car in the driveway while you unlock your garage door.

We all make sure we have electric gates and electric garage doors. When the gates open look around you and make sure there is no-one sneaking up on you, drive in, close the gate and then proceed to your garage. If you look after yourself then you will be fine. The stories are not frequent. Yes, some of them are true, but like I say, be vigilant and rather just get out the car and let them take it, who cares, it's just a car.

I would not worry about a thing. You can go out to dinner with your wife. But I wouldn't go out and leave children under the age of 16 home alone. Hire babysitters, there are plenty around.

I am a single mom. I go out and come home late at night and travel alone. But I don't leave my children home alone and I make sure I look after myself. For example I stick to the main highways and not drive down dark roads by myself because then I look like a victim and am an easy target. There is crime. Houses do get broken in to. But then we make sure we have armed response which are private security companies that you pay a monthly fee to and if you push a panic button they come very fast. Do not rely on the police to do that, they are honestly not the quickest to respond to an emergency. We also have remote panic buttons for our security companies.
One of these companies' names are Chubb Security, which is one of the best. Look them up . They were my security company and responded to some "false" emergencies I thought I had and were great. We have alarms on our windows and doors to alert us if there is a break in and we have electric fences around the perimiters of our houses. I know this sounds terrible but they are deterrants. If you are going to live in Sandton, chances are where ever you are going to live has all of those things because most of the houses there do. I know Sandton very well, down to even the residential streets, as I have a lot of friends living there. Please do not worry about the crime. It is not like you have to go around with a gun to protect yourself or anything like that but don't go asking for trouble. We all live behind high walls, electric fencing and automatic gates and hire security firms.

But then this is a beautiful place and there is lots to do. There is an area called Magaliesburg nearby where the cradle of humankind is. That is where Mrs. Ples (the missing link in evolution) was located. There is a wonderful museum there and the Sterkfontein caves. There is a lot of openness here. With rivers and parks and botanical gardens. It really is beautiful. Sandton is very built up but if you drive just half an hour you can be out in the country and experience a lovely kind of life. I can give you a lot of feedback and information if you like.

By the way me nor any one I know has ever been affected by the crime here. We all just take the precautions I mentioned above just in case.

I hope this helps. Let me know :-).
Debi

[Stravinsky]

Is this no longer the case then Debi?

https://www.osac.gov/Reports/report.cfm?contentID=71513

I know the reports are from last year, but the very first incident I looked at was in Sandton

[Debi]

Oh this made me laugh.

Some of the incidents are true, for example the Judy Sexwale thing but honestly, it is propaganda. Houghton is in Sandton. Yes crime does happen but of this magnitude? No way. I live here, I would see it the local newspapers and hear about it around town let alone see it posted on the web.

Yes there is crimer here, but really it has been blown out of proportion. I have a four year old little boy and a teenager. Neither of them have come to any harm, hanging out in shopping centres, going for picnics. Please do not worry so much, just be vigilant and make sure you have security around your house and don't do stupid things like leave your car running whilst you jump out and unlock the gate, somebody will jump into it and drive away.

This is a beautiful country. The only gripe I have is that unemployment is rampant.

Debi

[Debi]

Dear Hentel,

When I mentioned your concerns to a friend of mine they reminded me of a website someone had set up to embelish the crime here so as to keep foreigners away and endeavour to try to get the police to be more active where crime in South Africa is concerned. Unfortunately I would not call our police force one of the best in the world. So that is something to consider whilst reading up on South Africa. I have just been privvy to an e-mail scam myself so I think we all have to be careful.

My family is from British origin and I am a stay-at-home mom at the moment, I would be most willing to help you and your family find your way around the area when you arrive if you so wish. I do not mind corresponding with you via e-mail so you have a local to be in contact with when you first get here to show you the ropes.

Good luck and all the best. I am very sure that you will not regret coming to our country.

Debi

[Stravinsky]

Originally Posted by Debi

Dear Hentel,

When I mentioned your concerns to a friend of mine they reminded me of a website someone had set up to embelish the crime here so as to keep foreigners away and endeavour to try to get the police to be more active where crime in South Africa is concerned. Unfortunately I would not call our police force one of the best in the world. So that is something to consider whilst reading up on South Africa. I have just been privvy to an e-mail scam myself so I think we all have to be careful.

My family is from British origin and I am a stay-at-home mom at the moment, I would be most willing to help you and your family find your way around the area when you arrive if you so wish. I do not mind corresponding with you via e-mail so you have a local to be in contact with when you first get here to show you the ropes.

Good luck and all the best. I am very sure that you will not regret coming to our country.

Debi

I'm just interested, honestly, in what you say.

If its propaganda, then who is it by?
For if you type in Crime Johannesburg, or crime Cape Town in Google then you come up with all kinds of terrible things. And I could direct you to a site where there are a number of expats who have left SA in fear of their lives.

I'm just very confused as to how its propaganda if its coming from so many different sources

There is also a thing called the homecoming revolution and people from there tell you that there is no crime at all in SA and that its all under control

[Daxk]

Hi Debi,
Are you logged on with Eblockwatch?
I've just checked and Sandton has had some serious crimes.

Hetal, you could spend 40 years in SA and not experience what South Africans call serious crime, but if you do experience it,it tends to be a biggie.
Debi, unless she lives in a vacuum,is fully aware of how much crime is around her, the local newspapers, particularly the weekly Freebies such as the Sandton Chronicle, Rosebank Gazzette,Midrand Distorter etc were asked to only publish Capital Crimes. as it was affecting property sales in the area's.
Even before our Hijacking and Armed robbery 4 years ago (Left SA 3 years ago) At that time, in my street of 20 Houses ,before us, we had 3 armed robberies, two hi-jackings and innumerable burglaries.
I would suggest that Hetal and family rather read the SA online News services such as news24 and iol.co.za
That would give them a more balanced view,as after all, there are a lot of Saffa's who left,they cant all have been racists.

[Daxk]

thinking about Debi's post and starting to do a slow burn.
Blown out of proportion?
Incidents not true?
Go for long walks??
Really? where?
Delta park?
Emmerentia dam??
The Wilds perhaps?? Debi??
Magaliesburg??

I have friends, some trying very hard to get out, that live in that whole Sandton/Randburg/Fourways/Midrand Area and with the exception of Graham and Dorian, have ALL experienced either themselves or within the close family/Friends circle, serious crime.

Does Debi work for Homecoming revolution?? They have an office in a garage in Saxonwold? and seem to be the only ones in denial.

[Worldwide Worker]

It is very interesting to read all these posts and the opinions expressed. I think that often it so in your "back yard" that you in fact do not realise what is going on around you. I left South Africa many years ago (lost my work through the Affrimative Action Policy) and unfortunately I still have children there which I am pushing to leave as soon as possible. They have both recently graduated and cannot find employment.

Living away from there but at the same time still having family and hearing what is going on, it is a wonder that I actually sleep at night.

I have been to the Homecoming Revolution seminar here in London and I do believe that they are living in a blinkered world. Well now with all the power cuts through the country, probably more like a dark world. They have a crunch at the moment to get things done for the World Cup so thay want all the expertise back that left, yet nobody would give a guarantee that come 2010 you will not be sent packing again.

On my last visit in April 2007 it was most noticable that people do not move around after dark. My daughter lives in Durban and we went for a meal at the wharf development near the old yacht harbour. Coming back around 10pm the roads were so empty I actually asked if there is some curfue in place or something and were we allowed out, simply because it was so quiet. Similar situation in Cape Town visiting my son.

Both have had cellphones stolen, cars broken into and the like. Thank the Lord nothing more serious.

I really cannot imagine what it would be like to go back, although my heart stills lies in that piece of the African continent below the Limpopo.

André

[Hetal]

Thankyou all for the info. Thanks Debi for your help also.
I will be in touch I I need more info / help
Hetal