Even Dr Zuma has a sense of humour!

[Daxk]

Jozi Joe, you are off on so many tangents its not possible to have a coherent discussion with you.
If I recall, I commented on Ghandi being a racist by todays standards because someone had held him to be a shining example of a Human rights fighter.
whatever.

[Halo]

Originally Posted by Daxk

Jozi Joe, you are off on so many tangents its not possible to have a coherent discussion with you.
If I recall, I commented on Ghandi being a racist by todays standards because someone had held him to be a shining example of a Human rights fighter.
whatever.

I am of the opinion the Jozi is not exactly sure what he believes..... Perhaps as mentioned before he just has an axe to grind. As for Ghandi etc, things change - Perhaps Jozi need to realise that ALL cultures/civilizations had oppressors and the oppressed in some shape or form.

[JoziJoe]

Originally Posted by Halo

I am of the opinion the Jozi is not exactly sure what he believes..... Perhaps as mentioned before he just has an axe to grind. As for Ghandi etc, things change - Perhaps Jozi need to realise that ALL cultures/civilizations had oppressors and the oppressed in some shape or form.

And I am of the opinion that neither Daxk or his sidekick have a clue what the philosophies of Ghandi means. Let us not forget that Ghandi's protest started against British racist conduct in South Africa!

You must be the change you wish to see in the world.

It may be long before the law of love will be recognized in international affairs.

The machinery's of government stand between and hide the hearts of one people from those of another.

To forgive is not to forget. The merit lies in loving in spite of the vivid knowledge that the one that must be loved is not a friend.

You assist an evil system most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees.
An evil system never deserves such allegiance.
Allegiance to it means partaking of the evil.
A good person will resist an evil system with his or her whole soul.

Nonviolence is not a garment to be put on and off at will.
Its seat is in the heart, and it must be an inseparable part of our being.

Violent means will give violent freedom.

However much I may sympathize with and admire worthy motives, I am an
uncompromising opponent of violent methods even to serve the noblest of
causes.

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless,
whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism
or the holy name of liberty and democracy?

[Halo]

Originally Posted by JoziJoe

And I am of the opinion that neither Daxk or his sidekick have a clue what the philosophies of Ghandi means. Let us not forget that Ghandi's protest started against British racist conduct in South Africa!

At least its yours.....
Please don't forget which country was the FIRST to abolish slavery......

Have you got Brit envy or something?

[JoziJoe]

Originally Posted by Halo

At least its yours.....
Please don't forget which country was the FIRST to abolish slavery......

You're running out of arguments Halo, you tried that one before and I've told you:

You abolished slave trade and then replaced it with CHEAP BLACK LABOUR in Southern Africa! Wow, what an accomplishment.

Your path of destruction in Southern Africa started with CECIL RHODES who lies buried in Zimbabwe, who set the stage for the Oppenheimer dynasty to exploit Southern Africa for it's mineral resources! And nothing has changed, you are still calling the 'shots' in Southern Africa under manipulated Black Governments. Mugabe studied at Oxford University, is that where you taught him his "tricks"?

Originally Posted by Halo

Have you got Brit envy or something?

I think you are the one, like many of your compatriots, who has a problem with South Africans and even Australians!

Originally Posted by Halo

Perth.... Avoid the South Africans

Originally Posted by Halo

Humid up north and WAY WAY to many South Africans who speak the TAAL in Perth..... And its a DORP of note far away from anything that even resembles culture.

LESSON 1: Weather is not everything

Originally Posted by Halo

LOL, I spend 20 years in SA....
Depends - if you actually like South Africans - then Perth is the place

BOTTOM LINE - OZ is SA without the problems.

The Brits are immigrating all over the world these days, they are all over our countries. Why? Why don't you go home and FIX your own problems. That's the question you keep asking South Africans when you encounter them. It's payback time you know....(grimace)

Why don't you follow your own advice and go home and fix your problems, or is it payback time for you too? It it Karmic law at play here?

Originally Posted by Halo

Have you got Brit envy or something?

I will let Ghandi answer that one :

Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization
Indian political and spiritual leader (1869 - 1948)

I think it would be a good idea.

[zambezi.king]

This is my first post on the forum so I will jump right in with both feet and probably insult everyone

I am a Zambian - Rhodesian - South African with distant Britsh and "Afrikaaner" ancestry. I have seen most of what Africa has to offer and where large chunks of the blame, IMHO, could be placed.

The west is by and large the purpetrators of mess as well as the creators. To blame the Jews for ANY of the problems is not only short sighted but misses the point entirely. Yes they profited from apartheid, also way before, simply because the Jewish people are superb businessmen. The saw the potential way before anyone else and were prepared to eek out a living in small shops and retail outlets (as many still do worldwide). All that rubbish at the start of the thread about the disproportionate amount of Jewish shops etc and "the Jews taking over" etc just smacked of anti-semitism and the usual propaganda put out by neo-nazi / Islamist/pro-arab, anti Jew small minded yahoos across the globe that feel depressed with their own lives... ah, shame! Get over it!

In South Africa we currently have zero, nil, nada, people who supported or benefitted from apartheid... just ask anyone they all condemn apartheid, were all pro "freedom" and all on the "right" side of the arguement. COMPLETE BS!!
Sorry JoziJo but you condemn the Jews (Oppenheimers etc) for leaving but where are you at the moment (you say you want to come back)? If I had built up a huge fortune I too would have moved it out to prevent it being nationalised as has happened in every (?) newly independant country on the continent. (Just as an aside my uncle was the farm manager on Gwamanyanka farm outside Bulawayo. This farm belonged to Nikki oppenheimer. He kept the farm going and employed hundreds of staff even with thousands of sqatters on the property and no hunting and very little cattle left. If he was the "typical" Jew he would have dumped the losing asset years before. He actually lost millions in Zimbabwe. If he/they, the Jews, were really in control they Zimbabwe situation would have been sorted out long ago.

If you want to blame someone for the shambles in South Africa's early years and the start of apartheid and the resentment between the Afrikaaner and the English then look to Britian. Yes they were brutal and arrogant and they are now paying for it.

If you want to know who supported the apartheid regime in is quite simply everybody. Britian and the States on one side and Russia and China on the other. They all prospered from the turmoil and are reaping even bigger benefits now. As an example where else in the world can you get a producing copper mine and associated infrastructure for $50 million except in Zambia. They have beggered the country to the point that they think the west is doing them a favour by buying the mines. And China, well they are a little more subtle about thier inroads into Africa. They too buy the minerals but also put up the infrastructure such as roads etc... only problem it is all usually substandard and thereafter the only import Chinese for employment.

Blame who you all want but I don't think the Jews are anywhere near the top of the list.

Or have I missed the point completely!

[Daxk]

Originally Posted by JoziJoe

And I am of the opinion that neither Daxk or his sidekick have a clue what the philosophies of Ghandi means. Let us not forget that Ghandi's protest started against British racist conduct in South Africa!

All you have posted is rhetoric from Ghandi, mostly Political.

Kindly post what he wrote at the time about Black Africans,

As you are an avowed expert on Ghandi, kindly also post what his opinions were towards the caste system in India and especially equality for them.

with links.

[JoziJoe]

Originally Posted by zambezi.king

This is my first post on the forum so I will jump right in with both feet and probably insult everyone

Your post does not offend me at all, in fact, I agree with most of your points!

Originally Posted by zambezi.king

The west is by and large the purpetrators of mess as well as the creators. To blame the Jews for ANY of the problems is not only short sighted but misses the point entirely. Yes they profited from apartheid, also way before, simply because the Jewish people are superb businessmen. The saw the potential way before anyone else and were prepared to eek out a living in small shops and retail outlets (as many still do worldwide). All that rubbish at the start of the thread about the disproportionate amount of Jewish shops etc and "the Jews taking over" etc just smacked of anti-semitism and the usual propaganda put out by neo-nazi / Islamist/pro-arab, anti Jew small minded yahoos across the globe that feel depressed with their own lives... ah, shame! Get over it!

I could not agree more! They are superb businessmen and they prospered from Apartheid! They saw the potential of cheap black labour and the massive Oppenheimer dynasty made full use of it, exploiting it. So why not just admit it? Why hide behind Helen Suzman and popular ‘belief” that Jews are not racist and, together with the world, point the finger at the Afrikaners?

Why did they not, like the Afrikaners Apartheid villians, stand trial at the TRC for exploiting the cheap black labour ON LARGE SCALE and were MAJOR benefactors of Apartheid?

The disproportionate representation of Jews in business in SA, in particular Johannesburg (Jewberg), is reported by the Jewish Virtual Online Library itself, are you saying the Jews themselves are talking rubbish? Oh God, and of course, the word anti-semitism just had to pop up, whenever the Jews do something wrong, then we are being anti-semitic? Why don’t they just admit that they too, just like the rest of the world, have racist tendencies, as is perfectly being demonstrated on the West Bank in Palestine!

Originally Posted by zambezi.king

In South Africa we currently have zero, nil, nada, people who supported or benefitted from apartheid... just ask anyone they all condemn apartheid, were all pro "freedom" and all on the "right" side of the arguement. COMPLETE BS!!

You are entitled to your opinion.

Originally Posted by zambezi.king

Sorry JoziJo but you condemn the Jews (Oppenheimers etc) for leaving but where are you at the moment (you say you want to come back)?

I am querying the AMBIGUITY of the Jews and the British in South Africa, it’s hard to draw the line as a lot of them were BRITISH JEWS. I’m querying the fact that only the Afrikaner Apartheid villains stood trial at the TRC, whilst a LARGE section of major Jewish & British Apartheid Benefactors got off scott free.

None of the South Africans currently participating on this thread live in South Africa, so what? I left for NZ in 2005 because of unemployment in SA. NZ Immigration to this day “recruits” South Africans with overemphasized visions of jobs, safety, racial harmony, 100% pure NZ.

Jobs in NZ are scarce because of the global recession, the anti-Asian sentiment in NZ is tangible (In some aspects, Apartheid was kindergarten compared to it), I have worked 18 hour days, I was paid for 8, I have never had so much respiratory problems in my life because of the extreme damp and the mould and the housing is crap and overpriced, Auckland has a ‘real estate bubble” because of all the immigrants being lured to NZ! I would be better off working 18 hr days being paid for 8 in SA, I'm starting to think dying by bullet is easier than pneumonia!

Originally Posted by zambezi.king

If you want to blame someone for the shambles in South Africa's early years and the start of apartheid and the resentment between the Afrikaaner and the English then look to Britian. Yes they were brutal and arrogant and they are now paying for it.

If you want to know who supported the apartheid regime in is quite simply everybody. Britian and the States on one side and Russia and China on the other. They all prospered from the turmoil and are reaping even bigger benefits now. As an example where else in the world can you get a producing copper mine and associated infrastructure for $50 million except in Zambia. They have beggered the country to the point that they think the west is doing them a favour by buying the mines. And China, well they are a little more subtle about thier inroads into Africa. They too buy the minerals but also put up the infrastructure such as roads etc... only problem it is all usually substandard and thereafter the only import Chinese for employment.

Blame who you all want but I don't think the Jews are anywhere near the top of the list.

Or have I missed the point completely!

This particular thread focuses on Jews, because I'm trying to highlight there were OTHER WHITE BENEFACTORS OF APARTHEID, it was not just the AFRIKANER, as the British Propaganda Machine brainwashed the world to think! The rest of my sentiments expressed on this Forum in other threads are much the same as yours.


Thank you, Thank you God!!
There is someone else who has realized that the SH1T going on in Africa is about the exploitation of mineral resources, the whole f---- industrial world is leeching off Africa's resources! .

China was even so bold as to send ships with ammunition to assist Robert Mugabe during the “elections”!!

[JoziJoe]

Originally Posted by Daxk

All you have posted is rhetoric from Ghandi, mostly Political.

Kindly post what he wrote at the time about Black Africans,

As you are an avowed expert on Ghandi, kindly also post what his opinions were towards the caste system in India and especially equality for them.

with links.

Ooooh I know your toes are sore about this one Daxk!
I have told you before, I am not an expert on Ghandi or the Caste System in India and I’m not about to swot up for links on your command. Yet again, you just cannot see things in context of what is being said.

If the world is going to label Ghandi Racist, then Mandela should be labeled Racist too! Mandela’s activism was intended for the BLACK COMMUNITY, who knows, perhaps even excluding the Zulus? Is Mandela Racist? He did what he felt was right for HIS community, so did Ghandi.

For me personally, my admiration for Ghandi lies in the fact that he so accurately PINPOINTED the TRUE source of racist problems in Southern Africa, which was Racism introduced under British Rule!

Curiously, Mandela has yet to realize, admit and broadcast that reality. I’m sure it’s not because of lack of intelligence or insight!

[Daxk]

"If the world is going to label Ghandi Racist, then Mandela should be labeled Racist too! Mandela’s activism was intended for the BLACK COMMUNITY, who knows, perhaps even excluding the Zulus? Is Mandela Racist? He did what he felt was right for HIS community, so did Ghandi. "

So did the Brits, and the Jews, and the Afrikaners.
They did what they felt was right for their communities.

But you seem to be expecting some sort of mass mea culpa for what was done in the past, and lauded and admired in the past and reviled by todays standards.

what exactly do you expect from readers of your diatribes?
The Brits took what they could by force and coercion,
so did every other Race and nation and tribe.
and some religious beliefs too.
still do.
which part of this dont you understand?