Relocating to Johannesburg

[Daxk]

Beyond this,I'm not even going to bother to answeras to why, its been answered so many times before.
Irishlout.
Leaving your back door open and being burgled is so commonplace its considered a petty Crime and is not why most SA Expats wont go back.
Yes,Dainfern has good Security, better than most.
But they still dont count that the same amount of bodies on a the back of a builders truck going out are the same amount as going in, they are supposed to but they dont.
nd yes, I can "dredge"up some incidents, why bother, I made it quite clear in my earlier post,
if a huge amount of bad experiences, as well as the SAPS Crime stats all say Jhbg is the worst hit for Violent crime, Why do you wish to minimise or make it appear that it is so safe?

Chinasing, racism again??
Arnaud, the the figures were taken from the census statistics which are the most accurate indicator of emigration as they measure bums on seats in SA at a particular date,
where do you get a population figure of 6 million from?

For some strange reason the Census figures are no longer freely available, you have to apply to a Government minister to gain access

[arnaud]

Originally Posted by Daxk

Beyond this,I'm not even going to bother to answeras to why, its been answered so many times before.
Irishlout.
Leaving your back door open and being burgled is so commonplace its considered a petty Crime and is not why most SA Expats wont go back.
Yes,Dainfern has good Security, better than most.
But they still dont count that the same amount of bodies on a the back of a builders truck going out are the same amount as going in, they are supposed to but they dont.
nd yes, I can "dredge"up some incidents, why bother, I made it quite clear in my earlier post,
if a huge amount of bad experiences, as well as the SAPS Crime stats all say Jhbg is the worst hit for Violent crime, Why do you wish to minimise or make it appear that it is so safe?

Chinasing, racism again??
Arnaud, the the figures were taken from the census statistics which are the most accurate indicator of emigration as they measure bums on seats in SA at a particular date,
where do you get a population figure of 6 million from?

For some strange reason the Census figures are no longer freely available, you have to apply to a Government minister to gain access

Get a look on Population census in SouthAfrica Info :
South Africa's population - SouthAfrica.info
White population : 4,3 million (not 3 million) living in SA
Please look at the demographic of South Africa on Wikipedia :

As of July 2008, there were 5,265,300 Whites and over 1,500,000 White households residing in South Africa.[citation needed] The White population density is 4/km². The density of White households is 1.16/km². Whites make up 11% of the total population.

Since 1994, several hundred thousand white South Africans have emigrated abroad. This figure is often erroneously quoted as being over one million, but in fact the total population of South Africans living outside of the country is less than a half million (this false information is possibly based on the fact that almost one million white South Africans have moved to another country during the period of 1994-2005, but the majority have returned to South Africa and not permanently settled in the foreign country). Similarly, it is often quoted that there are a half a million white South Africans in London, when in fact there are less than 150 000 in the whole of the UK. There are in fact more British Citizens resident in South Africa (212 000, according to the BBC's 2006 report) than there are South Africans in the United Kingdom.

5,265,300 Whites (among them, 4,4 million SAFFA, and 865 000 foreigners, mostly british, zimbaweans, germans...)

5,265 + several hundreds abroad =~ 6 million.

What about your facts ?

[Daxk]

Arnaud, very quickly, the figure of 841,000 Expat South Africans came from a study undertaken by the Institute of Race relations, a very reputable South African institute founded in 1929 and reported by its director john KAne berman to an ANC Think Tank regarding the Skills Crises and Flight of Skills in 2006.
Those figures were gleaned from Census surveys, electoral registers and SARS input.

Now as to your figures, we are talking about South Africans who left and I agree with your figure of a Saffa population of 4.5 million (4,472,100 estimate 2009) the balance to the 6 million figure you quote dont count as they are Foreigners.
We are and were talking about South Africans who left? not so?

The Wiki report you quote means very little as anyone can post a Wiki report.

The SA Govt have refused to divulge figures of those who have left as well as those who have returned since 2004.
They have the accurate information as ,by law, every SA Citizen HAS to leave on a SA Passport irrespective of how many other passport Nationalities they may have.
These are recorded at every Airport and international Border Post.

If the majority had returned then:
There would'nt be an ongoing skills shortage.
The Govt could accurately say exactly how many SA Expats there are.
They have'nt and refuse to.
Why?

As to the figures quoted for SA's overseas.
Every Country gives those figures from their own Census figures.

However, someone who has a British ancestral passport, or a French or Irish or a Dutch one is a citizen of the country whose passport they also hold.
Will they now be counted as South African living in Britain or as British?
South Africans in Britain (and elsewhere) who are on PR or work visa's will be counted as South Africans.

Back to SA.

Why is the 2006 census not released yet?
Why is there still a skills shortage?

So what about your facts?

[SABrits]

Originally Posted by Daxk

Hi Irishlout, can you advise which are the safe areas to stick to in Johannesburg/Pretoria?
the ones that dont have the hi-jackings and armed invasions the "doomongers" pinch of salt
should be taken with??

Yup - go to Harties if you know where that is!

[SABrits]

And I agree. You are both giving negative feedback. You have left and have your reasons. Dont slam what you dont know anymore. Crime happens worldwide!

[Daxk]

Originally Posted by SABrits

And I agree. You are both giving negative feedback. You have left and have your reasons. Dont slam what you dont know anymore. Crime happens worldwide!

Then disprove what I state.
Fact, not conjecture.
Crime might happen Worldwide, but we are talking about SA and its violent Crime.
And if that makes it uncomfortable for people who only like good news stories .
tough.
I still have investments there,I still have Family there.
the Powers that be dont listen to its citizenry,they listen to International media and exposure.
This is an International site.
read a thread called SA Haters that I started on here sometime ago.

But post that crime happens everywhere,that only racists complain, that I must hate the Country etc..etc.. etc.. and I will post uncomfortable truths.
I dont do personal, only facts.

[Irish Lout]

Daxk, you can pull out every pedantic figure from your 50 year old scrap book (while you quickly disparage the source of others) and you can interpret it anyway you want - the fact is WE LIVE HERE, we experience life on a daily basis, want to be part of its future and add our contributions in a meaningful way to improve this country and the fact is we ENJOY it too. Your experiences are frankly, very boring and repeated so many times - we are living for the future and not mired in your past.

Its not a perfect country nor a perfect city and there are real secruity concerns which need to be managed, no-ones "minimising" the reality, but it has so much to offer too - my wife and 3 year old daughter feel safe and love he lifestyle here. We dont want to go back to the UK.

Daxk, honestly, its time to let the past go - since you are living in Ireland (a beautiful country!) why not enjoy it there and let people come down to South Africa and make their own minds up for themselves.

[Halo]

Originally Posted by Irish Lout

Daxk, you can pull out every pedantic figure from your 50 year old scrap book (while you quickly disparage the source of others) and you can interpret it anyway you want - the fact is WE LIVE HERE, we experience life on a daily basis, want to be part of its future and add our contributions in a meaningful way to improve this country and the fact is we ENJOY it too. Your experiences are frankly, very boring and repeated so many times - we are living for the future and not mired in your past.

Nobody is disputing that but just like you have your opinion, I have mine which is based on:
Personal experience (having lived there for a number of years)
Crime Statistics
1st and 2nd hand accounts of crime affecting family and friends to a degree never experience in any other western country.

Originally Posted by Irish Lout

Its not a perfect country nor a perfect city and there are real security concerns which need to be managed, no-ones "minimising" the reality, but it has so much to offer too - my wife and 3 year old daughter feel safe and love he lifestyle here. We dont want to go back to the UK.

This is once again your choice but just because you feel its safe does not make it so.

Originally Posted by Irish Lout

Daxk, honestly, its time to let the past go - since you are living in Ireland (a beautiful country!) why not enjoy it there and let people come down to South Africa and make their own minds up for themselves.

That they should but before one takes the leap of faith(sic) people need to know all sides of the story. Life in SA can be Heaven but it can also be Hell.

PS Make sure that if you come to SA you have $ for all those insurances and earn a good wage or life will be miserable.

[Stevan]

Originally Posted by Halo

Nobody is disputing that but just like you have your opinion, I have mine which is based on:
Personal experience (having lived there for a number of years)
Crime Statistics
1st and 2nd hand accounts of crime affecting family and friends to a degree never experience in any other western country.



This is once again your choice but just because you feel its safe does not make it so.



That they should but before one takes the leap of faith(sic) people need to know all sides of the story. Life in SA can be Heaven but it can also be Hell.

PS Make sure that if you come to SA you have $ for all those insurances and earn a good wage or life will be miserable.

Fair points well made, which would apply anywhere in the world.


just one thing where can i go and not have to pay loads of insurance and not have to earn a good wage cause im off there. (just dont tell the wife)

[Halo]

Originally Posted by Stevan

Fair points well made, which would apply anywhere in the world.

Not to the levels in South Africa. In the UK/OZ/Europe burglary really end up with death/rape. Life hold little value in many parts of SA.

Originally Posted by Stevan

just one thing where can i go and not have to pay loads of insurance and not have to earn a good wage cause im off there. (just dont tell the wife)

UK, Canada, Australia, and most of Europe where health-care is free. Where the aged get looked after - Have you seen how the elderly with no money get treated in SA?
Car and home insurance in the UK is a pittance in % of earnings compared to SA.

I could go on and on.....

And if you are stuck in SA and earning Rands - Ouch