Is SA the crime centre of the world???

[bovinerebel]

Originally Posted by Daxk

if white citizens comprise 9.2% of the population and 2% of crime happens to them thats still a high percentage.
whats the percentage of Home invasions on that 9.2%

Yes. It's about 1 murder a day. That's a lot but it's not denocide. So simple maths tells us that on any given day you have a 1 in 5 million chance of being killed in South Africa if you are a local white person. As a tourist let's consider this...


Let's take a look at some of the facts , taken from this website (Lark Tours | The Truth About Crime In South Africa ) :


I hope this shuts you and the other scaremongers up.

Let’s start with the worst, most publicized fact about South Africa’s crime issue: South Africa has roughly 50 murders per day. Though this is certainly a terrible fact, it is highly misleading. Why is that? Murder rates are traditionally measured using the number of murders per 100,000 people. Using that measurement, South Africa had 40.4 murders per 100,000 people during 2006/2007.(1) That is, of course, still a very high statistic. But, it is important that you put this statistic into perspective before you make any judgments. In 2006 Washington, D.C. had 29.7 murders per 100,000 people.(2) In 2005 that number was 35.4.(3) Three years before this in 2003 it had 44.7 murders per 100,000 people.(4) Have you or your family ever had the least concern about visiting Washington, D.C.? In 2006 Birmingham, Alabama had 44.5 murders per 100,000 people and St. Louis, Missouri had 37.2 murders per 100,000.(5)(6)(7)

Most contact crimes (defined by the police as murder, attempted murder, rape, assault with intent to do serious bodily harm, common assault, indecent assault, aggravated robbery, street muggings, car hijackings, house break-ins, bank robberies, and common robbery) in South Africa take place between people who knew each other according to the South African Police Services' (SAPS) recent Annual Report. In 2006/2007, it reported that this was the case in 81.5% of murders, 75.9% of rapes, 89% of assaults with intent to do grievous bodily harm, and 89.3% of common assault. In 61.9% of murders, the victims and perpetrators were related to each other.(8)

SAPS reports that most contact crimes took place in impoverished township areas, not in popular tourist spots, hotels, etc.
According to this same report there was a decrease in contact crimes of 3.4% during 2006/2007, which continues the five-year trend of steadily decreasing crime rates in South Africa.

According to the 2006 State of Cape Town report, the high crime rates are predominantly concentrated in certain township areas where there has been a rise in drug-related crime and where the onset of crime bosses and gangs have taken over in the absence of adequate law enforcement. These areas, according to the report, are key contributors to the crime rate in the country. This is true for all cities across South Africa.(9)

Crime statistics among tourists to South Africa is very low. Most crimes by tourists are petty thefts. Based on available statistics, the chance of a tourist experiencing a violent crime (physical assault, mugging, gang attack, rape, or hijacking) is less than 0.67 %. If you take into account that most crimes happen in non-tourist areas, that percentage drops even further.(10)
In non-violent crimes such as house burglaries South Africa is safer than countries such as Australia, Denmark, Finland, New Zealand, United Kingdom, and Canada.(11)

For every 10 tourists that visit South Africa one job is created. Tourism is the third largest contributor to South Africa's GDP. World Cup is being hosted by South Africa in 2010. All this to say, the South African government and its people are acutely aware of the importance of tourism and all efforts are being made to curtail crime.(12)

South Africa is increasing its police force from the current 164,000 officers to 192,000 officers by 2010. It is also restructuring its police force for quicker deployment time and better administrative ability.(13)
People leaving South Africa after vacation rate their experience very highly. 99% of people say they would love to visit South Africa again and would recommend it to a friend. To put this in context, only 94% of tourists leaving Australia responded similarly.(14)

[bovinerebel]

Here's some more for you...i'm going to keep driving stats down your throats until you understand it.

Speaking at a crime statistics seminar held at the Institute of Security Studies (ISS) in Pretoria on Wednesday, Nqakula said, “If you hear one day that I have gone back to journalism, that will be the story I will write.”

The minister was referring to what he termed ‘the true South African story’, a more balanced reflection of the country’s progress in addressing developmental and socio-economic challenges.

Nqakula’s comment followed presentations and floor discussions during the ISS seminar that touched on the media’s role in depicting the ‘true South African story’ with respect to crime in the country.

While the purpose of the seminar was to discuss the recently released crime statistics for 2007/2008, researchers, SAPS officials and journalists themselves frequently returned to the questions:
does the media in South Africa offer a clear picture of the reality of the crime situation in South Africa? and how powerful is the media in shaping public perceptions of crime and South Africa as a whole?

A false reality
Police officials, among others, have claimed that the way some media report on crime can create a false picture of the reality.

David Bruce of the Centre for the Study of Violence and Reconciliation gave an example of this at a crime reporting workshop held earlier this year. Bruce said that the print media he consumes creates the impression that his demographic and geographical group (white, middle class, living in Gauteng’s northern suburbs) is most at risk when it comes to contact crime in the country.

However statistics and studies conducted by SAPS and other research institutions indicate that the majority of contact crimes take place in large townships. The police precincts that recorded the highest number of murder incidents during the 2007/2008 period were Nyanga in the Western Cape and KwaMashu and Umlazi in KwaZulu Natal. The top twenty list does not feature a single suburban police precinct.

Also, it is seldom reported is the fact that the large majority of these contact crimes are social in nature and therefore occur between people who know each other e.g. friends, acquaintances or relatives. According to the SAPS 2006/2007 Annual Report, 89% of assault cases, 82% of murders and 76% of rapes reported in the period involved people who knew each other.

Deputy National Commissioner Andre Pruis, a speaker at Wednesday’s ISS event, did not shy away from asking the media, “Why do journalists not report on where the majority of murders take place? Is it because these stories don’t sell?”

Victims of our own pessimism
While house robberies and carjackings tend to occur in more affluent suburbs, it is the nature of the reporting of these particular crimes that seem to reflect the media’s power in influencing public perceptions as well as eliciting the disproportionate levels of fear that have become part of our society.

In the 2007/2008 crime statistics report, the author writes:

“The carjackings, house robberies and business robberies [the trio crimes] which result in fatalities, serious injuries or rapes tend to be prominently reported particularly if a well-known member of the community is affected. These extremely tragic incidents are perceived as representative of all robberies.

“Although less than 500 murders recorded during 2007/2008 could be linked to the trio crimes, the more brutal cases enjoyed the most publicity and became associated with all 18 487 murders reported during the period.

“This not only scares off potential investors and tourists but raises fear levels inside the country as well and thereby creates a snowball of perceptions, fears and monotonously recurring reports of news incidents feeding upon one another in a vicious circle of self-fulfilling prophecies.”

Executive Director of the ISS Jakkie Cilliers warns against the tendency of South Africans to position ourselves as “victims of our own pessimism”.

The danger of falling into the pessimism trap lies in the fact that this will inevitably breed a society defined by embittered inaction, the meaningless passing of blame, high levels of disproportionate fear and even punitive and revengeful responses to crime.

The media’s role in the battle
It is here that the media, through reflecting positive developments, SAPS success stories and the like, can play an exceptionally important role.

In an unconventional and somewhat scathing manner, Nqakula suggested that if the media continued to reflect negatively on the country’s crime-fighters and their efforts in addressing this challenge, we could ultimately land up with a situation in which more people are encouraged to engage in criminality.

There is some truth to this. It is possible, after all, that the frequent news stories about identifiable middle class families being attacked in their homes and robbed of their valuables while mysterious, unnamed criminals disappear into the night never to be caught, sends out the message that, in this country, criminals win - and not the justice system, not the police, not the civil society sectors working to make South Africa a safer place.

By reporting on successes, on the broader crime environment and on the socio-economic conditions that produce criminals, the media can reverse pessimistic perceptions about the future of this country.

Telling ‘the true South African story’ is a tough call for journalists. At the end of the day, there are shareholders and investors to whom the bottom line counts - and it is widely known what kind of stories sell. That being said, how is the media in South Africa to manage the power of its influence in this delicate society that is plagued by crime?

In as much as the SAPS report rightly calls for the harshest possible punishments for criminals, shouldn’t the country’s media also ask itself how it can maximise its contribution to a safer South Africa?

In South Africa we are proud of the freedom and robustness of our media. But are we getting worn out by the never-ending criticism and a lack of coverage over what has been done well?

For this freedom and robustness to remain sustainable, shouldn’t the media interrogate the accuracy of “bad news” with the same vigour that they interrogate the good? And shouldn’t the media report the successes with the failures, giving equal attention to each?

A deeper analysis of the crime statistics than the one offered by the mainstream media reveals as many successes as there were disappointments. That is the true South African story!

[bovinerebel]

One really solid example.

washington DC has a murder rate of 33 people per 100 000.

south Africa has a murder rate of 40 people per 100 000.

So you have a .....+-15% more chance of getting murdered in South Africa even of you live in the poorest areas. Does that really sound like reason to panic if you live in the much safer middle classes areas which only attract 2% of the murders ? Given that it's actually safer to live in South Africa as a middle classed person that it is to live in Washington DC.

That really should shut you up or at least make you shrug your shoulders about south african crime. 15% more ? I mean...the chance of being murdered is so low...that's a 15% higher increase ? 0.033 versus 0.040 ? I mean.....does that really warrant all the negatvity ?

[bovinerebel]

Also for those who like to throw around that we have the "highest murder rate in the world" would be interested to know that in fact we know have the 6th highest murder rate in the world. And it's decreased every year on average since 1994. We're doing great.

Countries more dangerous than south africa include tropical paradise Jamaica and Venezuala. I'd think you were a paranoid loon if you told me not to visit those countries on acount of crime , so what does that make you for telling people not to visit south africa because of it when we have less crime ?

Silly people.

[gkloken]

Well said , I admire the effort you put in to clear up the all the negative bull that keep on being posted here re South Africa.
But honestly some people never changes, they actually thrives on the attention they are getting with their continuous negative persistence.
We who really know the facts about SA choose to ignore those and not to buy into their negativity anymore.

[bovinerebel]

Originally Posted by gkloken

Well said , I admire the effort you put in to clear up the all the negative bull that keep on being posted here re South Africa.
But honestly some people never changes, they actually thrives on the attention they are getting with their continuous negative persistence.
We who really know the facts about SA choose to ignore those and not to buy into their negativity anymore.

The problem isn't that we south Africans ignore them ,the problem is they sell their b#ll**** to foriegners and scare them away from coming to South Africa. I feel I have shown without any doubt that south africa is safe to visit , but they work with fear....and fear easily overcomes reason.

i just wish they would leave the country and shut up with their misinformed lies.

[Daxk]

"Also, it is seldom reported is the fact that the large majority of these contact crimes are social in nature and therefore occur between people who know each other e.g. friends, acquaintances or relatives. According to the SAPS 2006/2007 Annual Report, 89% of assault cases, 82% of murders and 76% of rapes reported in the period involved people who knew each other"

So Perpetrators are known?
why is the conviction fo Murder 10% and 9% for Rape? on average 2003 to present
yes, 80% of the crme happens n the poorer areas, and yes you can be murdered anywhere in the World.
So why is there the ironings, the Boiling water, beating up and rape AFTER the theft.
you still owe me the link to the 1000 only kids get raped every year .

i'm always amused by you and even Gloken.
anyone criticises SA, and they are racist, yet the hate speech that you constantly spew is even greater.
age 31? I was a paid up member of the ANC before you were born, kiddo.
voted for them in 94 too.
wont in 2009, they destroyed the dream with their corruption and sheer inablty govern anything that did not make them personally rich.
End of the Day, they were far worse than the Nats were and they should all have been shot.(the nats)

I also meant to ask you, do you have permission from the relatives of those poor murdered people on your site?

[MichelleAlison]

Originally Posted by bovinerebel

The problem isn't that we south Africans ignore them ,the problem is they sell their b#ll**** to foriegners and scare them away from coming to South Africa. I feel I have shown without any doubt that south africa is safe to visit , but they work with fear....and fear easily overcomes reason.

i just wish they would leave the country and shut up with their misinformed lies.

What you seem to forget is, when people ask for advice, they want honest advice from everybody, not just one-sided advice from you. I have been doing some reading up on this topic, as you have got me interested in it, and thought you might like to read this news item from 2002 and what South Africans said about the crime. BBC News | TALKING POINT | Have you experienced crime in South Africa?

[bovinerebel]

Originally Posted by Daxk

"Also, it is seldom reported is the fact that the large majority of these contact crimes are social in nature and therefore occur between people who know each other e.g. friends, acquaintances or relatives. According to the SAPS 2006/2007 Annual Report, 89% of assault cases, 82% of murders and 76% of rapes reported in the period involved people who knew each other"

So Perpetrators are known?
why is the conviction fo Murder 10% and 9% for Rape? on average 2003 to present
yes, 80% of the crme happens n the poorer areas, and yes you can be murdered anywhere in the World.
So why is there the ironings, the Boiling water, beating up and rape AFTER the theft.
you still owe me the link to the 1000 only kids get raped every year .

i'm always amused by you and even Gloken.
anyone criticises SA, and they are racist, yet the hate speech that you constantly spew is even greater.
age 31? I was a paid up member of the ANC before you were born, kiddo.
voted for them in 94 too.
wont in 2009, they destroyed the dream with their corruption and sheer inablty govern anything that did not make them personally rich.
End of the Day, they were far worse than the Nats were and they should all have been shot.(the nats)

I also meant to ask you, do you have permission from the relatives of those poor murdered people on your site?

I think you'll find that the low conviction rate is due to the fact that the people who get murdered as 98% of the time the poorest of the poor. They have no family structures and money for lawyers and the police are mostly apathetic to their plight. thei communities have no infrastructure or official registred homes so people slip through the cracks very easily.

80% of crime happens in poorer areas...but that's misleading...98% of violent crime happens in poorer areas. and of that 2% in middle classed areas the perpetrater is known 80% of the time. I won't deny that south africa has a lot of petty theft ..I lost 3 car radios in 1 year.....or that we have a high level of rape (in the lower communities).

the ironing .....the boiling water...etc...???????????..see , there you go ! total sensationalism. An isolated freakish case and then you make it out as if it's commonplace.

The poor murdered people in my site are Iraqis whose faces I blanked out. If you want to talk about the iraqi war I think you'll find no one more sympathetic to their plight than myself. Don't beat the strawman by calling me a child or callous or whatever...deal with facts and statistics.

[bovinerebel]

Originally Posted by MichelleAlison

What you seem to forget is, when people ask for advice, they want honest advice from everybody, not just one-sided advice from you. I have been doing some reading up on this topic, as you have got me interested in it, and thought you might like to read this news item from 2002 and what South Africans said about the crime. BBC News | TALKING POINT | Have you experienced crime in South Africa?

No. I have never experience violent crime in South Africa. I can't think of anyone involved intimately with it either. I might know a friend who knows a cousin of a girl he used to dates' friends dog's owner who once knew someone involved in it....but nothing that comes to mind right away.

My advice is not one sides. My advice is saying there is crime , but assuring you that if you're middle classed you don't need to worry about it.

Of course there is always a risk of something happening to you. People get murdered in every country of the world everyday. I can never say there is no risk. I can just point out that middle clased south africans experience violent crime at about the same level or less than the united states of america.