Is SA the crime centre of the world???

[Daxk]

Hey GKLocken :"All I can say is: Show me the crime everyone is talking about so much.?


This was pulled from Front page news 24 this am, it's still there but you have to search for it.

Robbers make son watch rape: South Africa: News: News24

Guess there will be a bit more of that paranoia you were talking about,

[gkloken]

When did you move my dear ?
I have real understanding and empathy with you and I hear you.

I was hijacked and was held hostage higher up in Africa too , but the same or similar things happens to people every day in so many other countries too.

Sometimes far worse than these experiences.
Even in the USA/UK/Australia in different ways/forms.There is a definite positive change and integration that took place in SA believe me .
When I arrived peole couldn't understand why I do not fear like they do. My answer was I just came from America .
Some of my experiences there was hair raising especially since we believe that is a safe haven coming from the terrible SA . It was quite an eye opener too.
My friend was stabbed in London and died subsequently in a supposedly safe quiet neighbourhood while walking her dog.

That doesn't make UK or USA or Brazil or Kinshasa or Sydney the crime capitals of the world.
Why then would SA be "The Place" that is supposedly the "worst".

That made me realise SA is actually a mild country and crime just happens everywhere in different forms I cannot live in fear of what might or might never happen.

[gkloken]

Originally Posted by Daxk

Hey GKLocken :"All I can say is: Show me the crime everyone is talking about so much.?


This was pulled from Front page news 24 this am, it's still there but you have to search for it.

Robbers make son watch rape: South Africa: News: News24

Guess there will be a bit more of that paranoia you were talking about,

Like the same thing happens in the USA or UK and is published for everyone that want to or mostly do not want to hear it continuously . But it happens .

I am talking about not a couple of daily incidents I am talking about "SA The" supposedly "Crime capital of the world ".

A sweeping statement don't you think? Why always harp on SA it happens so frequently on this forum?

One very rarely hears about those that never had bad experiences, those that enjoy living here and never would change countries.
I had bad and lovely experiences in the USA. Will I go back yes . Do I hate the USA no .
I am right now on my way to the country where I had my worst experiences, unspeakable up north in Africa.

Yet I had hauntingly beautiful experiences there too and there are more terrible crimes there than in SA .
It just never get the Media's attention.

Why don't we hear any of the good things that happens here in SA like in every other country too?

Those things that tourists experience and made them return year after year after year for over 10 years?

Or for instance about all those foreigners that own a large percentage of the tourist establishments in SA?

Like one German said to me" they haven't lived the difficult life we average Germans live or seen our crime or our government.
It is still heaven here in SA"!

[Daxk]

I left 3 years and a bit ago ,Sweetiepie.
And yes, Crime happens everywhere , but not to the scale of ferocity during peace time as is happening.
I too happen to know large parts of Africa, did a lot of business and trips every year for many years,which in part explained my arrogance and disdain for those mere mortals around me who did'nt know how to be careful.
Lagos, Brazzaville,Kinshasha, Luanda, bulletproof Car and at least two bodyguards to sleep outside my Hotel room at nights and to guard me.
Nairobi, Zanzibar, Mozambique etc etc..
Own the T-shirt factory, dearie, dont try to minimise the very real danger if you happen to cross some sight lines in good old gatties, sarf Effrika, friend.
There's a lot of people trying to get somewhere else there, and its not because of the weather.

[Daxk]

Hey GkLocken:"One very rarely hears about those that never had bad experiences, those that enjoy living here and never would change countries.
I had bad and lovely experiences in the USA. Will I go back yes . Do I hate the USA no .
I am right now on my way to the country where I had my worst experiences, unspeakable up north in Africa.

Yet I had hauntingly beautiful experiences there too and there are more terrible crimes there than in SA .
It just never get the Media's attention.

Why don't we hear any of the good things that happens here in SA like in every other country too?

Those things that tourists experience and made them return year after year after year for over 10 years?

Or for instance about all those foreigners that own a large percentage of the tourist establishments in SA?

Like one German said to me" they haven't lived the difficult life we average Germans live or seen our crime or our government.
It is still heaven here in SA"!"
May I take these in part?
Who said anything about hating SA??
There is this very real attitude amongst South Africans, especially amongst us Afrikaners, that if you criticise SA or Leave, you hate SA?
It's very unpatriotic! Dont Moan or point out the bad bits, you will only do that if you hate SA.
BS!!
Love the country, love the people, hate whats being done to it in the name of greed and stupidity and arrogance.

Of course you hear about the good things, they're there everyday, news24 and IOL. why did'nt you hear about bad things in Somalia and Darfur and other African Countries?? I did, often,and still do. They are by and large, Failed Countries.
Are they worse than SA? must be, Tourism figures from them are up!!
In fact,73% of all Tourists last year are from other African Countries.
Did they leave? I dont know, neither does immigration.

Why do Tourists come back??
Because its great weather and its cheap.
Same answer for Foreign ownership

Tell me more about this one German? did he experience the Holocaust or the depression? Weimarr Republic?? what was he basing it on?

[gkloken]

Agreed, but so are there so many people wanting to get away from UK, USA, France, Germany actually everywhere in the world .

Why for instance do they want to leave China ? Why would South Africans that believed it is safer out there and moved to Australia now run back because and I qoute: " in SA we ran away from the cops, in Sydney the cops run away from the white teen gangs that terrorise everyone regardless " ?
Why would people like Leon Schuster and several other celebrities, feel it is safer and better in SA than in Australia.
Just to name one of so many that came back and found it is much better with the devil you know, than the one you don't and find worse ?

That brings me back to the same point; why don't we hear from SA expats that can't wait to return or people that are happy in SA like in every other country there is a balance ?

I hear from them I see some and hear about so many that love the country as is.

Was it better to sleep with body guards and armed cars in the other countries than in SA ? ( I actually enjoyed the experience of armed cars and body guards that slept not outside but sat inside my hotel room... )

Obviously not , but we never hear about how terrible those countries are . Why only SA?

[Daxk]

Please GKLocken!! People leave for better opportunities, a better life, it does not always work out, To leave your comfort zone, your Network and safety net and settle somewhere totally new with very few of your possessions takes cojones.
The only thing that creates change is when it hurts more not to change.
The fastest test is to ask the question, you've won a 100 million on the euro millions, where do you want to live?
Those who left for career and opportunities will return to where they came from.
Those that left because of a belief that somewhere else was better for themselves and their children, wont.
Saffa's who I've asked that question of,only the ones without kids have said they would go back.
Happy returnees, they are there, Martine Shaffer of Homecoming Revolution reported in the media s they get about 10 enquiries a week, thats 560 enquiries a year, am sure some of those might go "Home"
841,000 left between the 1996 and 2005 census, Oz is showing 30,000 odd immigrants pa from SA since then

Your other questions? China?? can they leave the most repressive society I
have ever seen??
Your comments about Sydney?? and returning expats?
Yeah! it's traumatic,it boils down to how badly you want to leave.
In my new country, Saffa's are considered to be arrogant, selfish, loud mouthed and go-getters.
In SA I constantly told emigrants who complained that if they did'nt like it, there was a regular Airline service back to the UK or the States, whereever.
I was going to put out the lights.
Now eskom have done it for us.
Was it better , nope, I have friends and family who choose to stay there, their choice,I have a friend who is going back, his choice. They are doing it as intelligent, informed human beings, I cant fault that.
My choice is to live somewhere wetter,colder , with shorter hours of daylight in Winter, but where my child plays in the fields behind the house, I have no burglar bars, cars are unlocked and I'm relaxed when my wife and daughter go out.

[gkloken]

Well if you are happy then I am happy for you!

People do not leave and change because it hurts.
It is exciting to explore new places, countries and cultures- as a family too .
So one does it because it is something one desire to do, not because it hurts or due to fear only.
Just read the postings and you will find only a very small group leaves because it really really hurts them. For the rest it is fun or dreams come true
For me I live in the now, not in the past wherever I am.
That is the only way to live life to the fullest and enjoy new experiences .
Enjoy your experience now.

[Daxk]

, GKlocken, You have misunderstood me,People only change because it hurts more if they dont change.
As the SA Government is finding out too, dont change, it hurts.
I agree that it's always exciting to explore new frontiers, Not all people are up to or committed to that unless it hurts more to go back then to stay.
Do whats right for you and your family, I wont attack that.
If you paint a picture that is obviously different to what is reflected in impartial News media everyday,and denigrate it, I will ask you about it,
If you honestly feel that a large part of the mass emigration that is occurring again, is not based on fear and experience, then i suggest you do some reading.

[Michele-In-SA]

Originally Posted by Daxk

Michelle in Somerset
Statistics | Crime Statistics

and the scary one, Law Society Report on Conviction rates 2000.
The reason why this is scary is that from 2000 to present The Court Rolls have more than quadrupled but the number of awaiting trial prisoners and Convicted Prisoners has stayed virtually constant, ie, Michelle, the percentages of convicted means that if you killed someone you had a 10% chance of going to prison and a 93.3% chance of getting away with Rape IF the victim laid a charge and IF you were caught.
Conviction Rates in South Africa
If however Michele, you want to know how big your target market is, it's 841,000 odd less Bums on Seats between 1996 and 2005 Census.
Institute of Race Relations comparison of White census figures.

Thanks Daxk, interesting stuff. Thanks a ton.