Real situation in Cape Town

[luismg]

Hello everyone!

I know this has been asked many times, but still I don't have a clear picture of the situation in this beautiful city regarding security/crime.
Let me say first that I am from Buenos Aires, Argentina, and I have visited CT last year in October, but it was only a three day visit (the last day it rained a lot, so just count two ;-).

My question refers to how real is the perception created by the media.
I know from my own experience in my country that sometimes, media creates histeria, and it seriously affects the perception people has about reality.
For examle, the recent economic crash of 2001 in Argentina originated serious social problems and, obviously, crime rised considerably.
But considering that Buenos Aires was a relatively safe place before the crash, many people feel now that this is out of control, and everytime a visitor arrives, he/she gets bogged down with terrible details on how bad the situation is right now...

I still believe that in spit of what we see in the media, BsAs is still one of the safest large cities in the world, and anyone armed with a little bit of common sense can live perfectly ok.

Is this the situation in Cape Town, or it really is "that serious"?
I got the feeling that the situation in CP is similar to that of Buenos Aires, but I don´t know really...

My first impression of CT was that it is a really pleasant place. I know October is right before the tourist season, so it probably looked more laid back than it is, but I've never seen anything to worry about (only a few beggars, nothing serious).
The only things that made me wonder were all those signal warnings on every single door indicating "ARMED RESPONSE".
While watching all the beautiful properties all along Camps Bay and surrounding areas, it was hard to imagine that this was a crime riden place, but the warnings were there, very visible...

When you walk down to these beaches, you can see a lot of bungalows and small nice places to rent. These properties are very exposed and easy to get into. All of them show "ARMED RESPONSE" warnings, but strangely, there don´t seem to be many armed guards...
All this is very strange for a first time visitor, so I would like to hear from locals what´s exactly the situation there.

Can I imagine myself living a normal life, with small kids, going to school, working and enjoying the city everyday?
I always wanted to spend at least a couple of years with my family in a foreign country, learning a new language (specially my little daughters), and having a life experience, and I wonder if South Africa, and CT in particular, could be this place.
Of course, I wouldn´t be living in Camps Bay.. I'm not rich, so I would have to live in a somewhat affordable, down to earth place...

Any hint?
I would apreciate comments from locals or expats that could give me a clearer picture of everyday life in Cape Town.

Thanks!
Luis

[gkloken]

Luis, you said it all in your summary or conclusion.
Like BsAs there are some places where crime is more prevalant than others . It is for prevention that you see the signs. Is there crime? Naturally, like in every big city. But again like BsAs - before it was not, much but have increased because of certain factors.
Thousands of people live a wonderful quality of live there, with small children and they are happy.
Then there are those that don't like it and move else where. It is a personal choice you have to make yourself.
You, coming from a place of change, will understand and adapt easier than people coming from a stable, peaceful, almost crime free area.
Just live in awareness and you will love it I am sure.

[RIKKA]

I have been to CT 4 times in the last year. It is the most strikingly beautiful place I have ever seen. I have been to many countries in the world, and have a great deal of expereince in travel. I feel generally safe in CT, as long as I follow big city intution. (garnerd at the expense of working in awful neighborhoods in Balitmore as a bill collector out of college). CT in the CBD or the winelands is phenominal.

I would argue you will be fine if you keep your wits and listen to your own common sense. I have not been to BsAs, but owudl love to go,and have some collegues from there who rave about it.

Hope this helps.

[luismg]

Thanks gkloken and rikka!
Your answers are very much appreciated.
I really don't like asking these kind of questions, because it looks like I'm a coward tourist pointing out negative things instead of those that really matter.
As a matter of fact, I hate when other foreigners ask all the time the same questions about my city...

Actually, my doubts were generated by the contrast between what I saw in Cape Town, and the news I read about South Africa when I returned home.
Although I must say that there's a lot of negative press from Southafricans themselves.

Here I see a familiar pattern when comparing these ttitudes to those of many argentines that left the country. It's like they need to convince themselves that they made the right choice when they left.
It's curious how different peoples react the same way when facing similar problems...

Well, thanks again!
Luis

[gkloken]

Luis, different people move for different reasons.
Those that move due to negativity about their country soon finds that that same negativity catches up with them in the new country too. You have a great attitude and I am positive that wherever you go you will enjoy it. Be wise but remember it will be your experience that matters and the Media are mostly sensation seekers.

[keltic-knight]

Hi,

I moved from South London to Cape Town with my wife and daughter in February 2007 and have found it to be a wonderful place to live. The people are genuinely warm and friendly and the scenery stunning. The racial groups, primarily white, black and cape coloureds, still live in distinct geographic areas, however, and there is further polarisation in respect of, for example, native Afrikaans and English speaking sub-communitees.

A visitor or prospective ex-pat is right to be wary of the security situation in all South African cities. During the day, most public areas such as beaches, shopping malls and tourist attractions around Cape Town feel quite safe. Security guards are never far away and there is a reasonably visible Police presence.

The rich (including anyone paid a reasonable UK living wage) live in safer neighbourhoods and secure properties, and you're right, Armed Response is quite common although don't be fooled by the fact that every home seems to be fitted with an ADT sign board. Many people don't actually bother having it connected.

We live in a secure estate surrounded by high perimiter fences with controlled entry, and our house also has ADT Armed Response, and I would recommend that any newcomer should take similar precautions. The biggest danger is coming home and disturbing a burglar. Burglary and theft from cars are probably the most prevelent crimes in Western Cape.

Drugs are a big problem in South Africa and a particularly destructive amphetamine called Tic is very popular at present. The black townships around Cape Town, politely referred to as "informal settlements", more commonly by locals as "squatter camps" or "the shacks", and by foreigners as "shanty towns", are awash with it. Many camp inhabitants are from the Eastern Cape or other African countries. The conditions in which they live are hard and dangerous, and although not everyone carries firearms, there are guns around. So disturbing a burglar, desperate through poverty and drug addiction and possibly armed, is not a good idea. So keeping the armed response on at night and whenever you are out is the best plan. If it is activated whilst you are out, ADT will call your cellphone and tell you, and will visit the property to check things out before you go back in.

We regularly explore the mountain and drive around at night, but would not tend to walk far after dark. From restaurant to car, for example, is generally ok but we would avoid a midnight walk on the beach.

By far the majority of violent crime is experienced within the townships and poorer housing areas. Shootings and stabbings relating to gang crime and other disputes are common, as is domestic violence. Obviously, as a visitor, do not ever enter an area of shacks or a visibly poor or run down residential area on your own. There are safe tours to be found and one enterprising township that I am aware of actually hosts dinners for tourists. I haven't been on one but I am told that the food is absolutely excellent.

Many shacks residents are employed by white people and our own domestic assistant, Eunice, lives in a shack in our local camp in Hout Bay, known as Mandela Park. We regularly collect her from the camp and altough I would definitely not want to walk through it at night, it doesn't feel as threatening as you might imagine.

So, overall, you are unlikely to get robbed at the traffic lights ("Robots" is the official name for them here!) during the day in Cape Town. You'll experience a few black guys trying to sell you things when you stop from time to time, but that's all. You can get out of the car, walk down the street, go for a beer or a meal, and play on the beaches. Stay away from areas that are obviously very poor or rundown. Take precautions at home, and never leave anything of value in your car because it is likely to be stolen. Conversely, if the car is left empty it is probably less likely to be taken or vandalised than in London, however. Don't walk about in the city in the dark as muggings of tourists are quite common. It happened to a good friend of mine but he was so obviously a tourist, carrying valuables, in a quiet part of the city centre at night. If someone does try to mug you, he'll probably wave a knife around and demand money. Give it to him without argument, and most of the time, he'll run away.

The stories about car-jacking and ramming come more from Johannesburg - all Jo'burgers have a story about something that happened to them, or someone close to them. Cape Town, however, is not so bad providing that you use common sense.

It is a truly beautiful city inhabited by some of the most colourful and open-minded people you will ever meet. A visit to Cape Town and the surrounding Western Cape is a truly unique experience which I would thoroughly recommend to anyone. But unless you like the rain and wind, avoid 1 April to 30 September. The "mediterranean climate" is a falicy. The winter is chilly and wet, with occasional nice days. It starts to pick up in October. December is windy and January to March really hot.

If you are serious about moving here you will find that most houses are typically not equipped for the winter. Central heating is very rare and most homes rely on open fires or paraffin and electric heaters. We found a cheap electric blanket a real asset in July and August. Firewood is widely available but only cheap in bulk and after heavy rainstorms it can be difficult to buy good dry wood. Apartments tend to be warmer, of course. It's just worth bearing in mind when you look for somewhere that the winters are colder than you might imagine, so look out for good window frames, wall heaters and well positioned fireplaces and firewood storage.

Keltic.

[synthia]

Thank you, gloken!

The heating thing always amazed me. When I lived in South Africa, the temperature would go down to -5C, no heat, 'air bricks' in every room so even if there were some insulation it would do no good, and people told me that of course there was no central heat, "because we really don't need it, do we?"

I had an apartment for a while that had a bath but no shower, and developed this whole routine where I rolled out of bed into my robe and slippers, ran into the bath and started to fill the tub with hot water, shut the door, and huddled under the covers with my eye on the clock. I ran in to shut off the water at the exact minute it got to the desired height, shut the door behind me, and bathed in a nice warm room.

[Gordon]

Originally Posted by keltic-knight

Hi,

I moved from South London to Cape Town with my wife and daughter in February 2007 and have found it to be a wonderful place to live. The people are genuinely warm and friendly and the scenery stunning. The racial groups, primarily white, black and cape coloureds, still live in distinct geographic areas, however, and there is further polarisation in respect of, for example, native Afrikaans and English speaking sub-communitees.

A visitor or prospective ex-pat is right to be wary of the security situation in all South African cities. During the day, most public areas such as beaches, shopping malls and tourist attractions around Cape Town feel quite safe. Security guards are never far away and there is a reasonably visible Police presence.

The rich (including anyone paid a reasonable UK living wage) live in safer neighbourhoods and secure properties, and you're right, Armed Response is quite common although don't be fooled by the fact that every home seems to be fitted with an ADT sign board. Many people don't actually bother having it connected.

We live in a secure estate surrounded by high perimiter fences with controlled entry, and our house also has ADT Armed Response, and I would recommend that any newcomer should take similar precautions. The biggest danger is coming home and disturbing a burglar. Burglary and theft from cars are probably the most prevelent crimes in Western Cape.

Drugs are a big problem in South Africa and a particularly destructive amphetamine called Tic is very popular at present. The black townships around Cape Town, politely referred to as "informal settlements", more commonly by locals as "squatter camps" or "the shacks", and by foreigners as "shanty towns", are awash with it. Many camp inhabitants are from the Eastern Cape or other African countries. The conditions in which they live are hard and dangerous, and although not everyone carries firearms, there are guns around. So disturbing a burglar, desperate through poverty and drug addiction and possibly armed, is not a good idea. So keeping the armed response on at night and whenever you are out is the best plan. If it is activated whilst you are out, ADT will call your cellphone and tell you, and will visit the property to check things out before you go back in.

We regularly explore the mountain and drive around at night, but would not tend to walk far after dark. From restaurant to car, for example, is generally ok but we would avoid a midnight walk on the beach.

By far the majority of violent crime is experienced within the townships and poorer housing areas. Shootings and stabbings relating to gang crime and other disputes are common, as is domestic violence. Obviously, as a visitor, do not ever enter an area of shacks or a visibly poor or run down residential area on your own. There are safe tours to be found and one enterprising township that I am aware of actually hosts dinners for tourists. I haven't been on one but I am told that the food is absolutely excellent.

Many shacks residents are employed by white people and our own domestic assistant, Eunice, lives in a shack in our local camp in Hout Bay, known as Mandela Park. We regularly collect her from the camp and altough I would definitely not want to walk through it at night, it doesn't feel as threatening as you might imagine.

So, overall, you are unlikely to get robbed at the traffic lights ("Robots" is the official name for them here!) during the day in Cape Town. You'll experience a few black guys trying to sell you things when you stop from time to time, but that's all. You can get out of the car, walk down the street, go for a beer or a meal, and play on the beaches. Stay away from areas that are obviously very poor or rundown. Take precautions at home, and never leave anything of value in your car because it is likely to be stolen. Conversely, if the car is left empty it is probably less likely to be taken or vandalised than in London, however. Don't walk about in the city in the dark as muggings of tourists are quite common. It happened to a good friend of mine but he was so obviously a tourist, carrying valuables, in a quiet part of the city centre at night. If someone does try to mug you, he'll probably wave a knife around and demand money. Give it to him without argument, and most of the time, he'll run away.

The stories about car-jacking and ramming come more from Johannesburg - all Jo'burgers have a story about something that happened to them, or someone close to them. Cape Town, however, is not so bad providing that you use common sense.

It is a truly beautiful city inhabited by some of the most colourful and open-minded people you will ever meet. A visit to Cape Town and the surrounding Western Cape is a truly unique experience which I would thoroughly recommend to anyone. But unless you like the rain and wind, avoid 1 April to 30 September. The "mediterranean climate" is a falicy. The winter is chilly and wet, with occasional nice days. It starts to pick up in October. December is windy and January to March really hot.

If you are serious about moving here you will find that most houses are typically not equipped for the winter. Central heating is very rare and most homes rely on open fires or paraffin and electric heaters. We found a cheap electric blanket a real asset in July and August. Firewood is widely available but only cheap in bulk and after heavy rainstorms it can be difficult to buy good dry wood. Apartments tend to be warmer, of course. It's just worth bearing in mind when you look for somewhere that the winters are colder than you might imagine, so look out for good window frames, wall heaters and well positioned fireplaces and firewood storage.

Keltic.

Hi Keltic

I was brought up in Sutton (Surrey when I was born - south London now!).

My wife and I are keen on semi-retirement in SA. My wife lived there from 1963 to 1994. She left due to work transfer - no other reason.

We've visited several times - last time just 3 weeks ago.

Your November post echos our experience. Any change of view since?

Cheers

Gordon

[BeautifulMystique]

Keltic!

Thank you so much for your post. I have been to Cape Town twice and stayed for a week on each visit and loved it so much that I am now thinking of moving to Cape Town.

I'm planning to start my own business there and it seems like a really good place to start and seeing that World Cup will be held there in 2010 - it would be the perfect time to set it up by end of this year.

I have read on here about the crime rates there and from what my BF has told me - it isn't so bad as what I have read here, then again he lives in an above average neighbourhood so it might be slightly different in terms of security?

All I can say is that crimes are everywhere and as one of the above posters said, one should always keep one's with and use common sense.

[webslave1]

Originally Posted by BeautifulMystique

Keltic!

Thank you so much for your post. I have been to Cape Town twice and stayed for a week on each visit and loved it so much that I am now thinking of moving to Cape Town.

I'm planning to start my own business there and it seems like a really good place to start and seeing that World Cup will be held there in 2010 - it would be the perfect time to set it up by end of this year.

I have read on here about the crime rates there and from what my BF has told me - it isn't so bad as what I have read here, then again he lives in an above average neighbourhood so it might be slightly different in terms of security?

All I can say is that crimes are everywhere and as one of the above posters said, one should always keep one's with and use common sense.

I can tell you all, having lived in other countries and other big cities, the rules are the same do not walk around with cash falling out of your pockets, dont wear a gold rolex unless you are aware of the area you are wearing it in.

I am going to say this again, South Africa used to be a police state as so the locals who were used to abslute safety and absolute fear have to adjust to the new world wide open country. Give them time it has only been 14 years or so, the fact is it is perfectly safe to walk down the high street at 3am just as it is doing it in the middle of nottinghill in London or even Brixton. Just a lot safer.

Fact is if you are stupid you will get mugged in any central city, most people on this forum will open businesses that do not deal in visibly large amounts of cash where the public see the turnover, this is a risk in any country even the UK, Paris Moscow and New York.

The City of Cape Town is like London quite small in and of itself, to see great properties in London you can look at my favorite web site for the upmarket properties in London on Chase Devonshire blog . com and from there you will not see any figure proclaiming any violence which is a daily fact in London. The rest of the city of cape town is out of what is called The City Bowl, because it is nestled i the foot of the mountain it looks like a bowl, simple hey?

That the London metropolitan police have the highest density of police almost anywhere in the world and they struggle says it all. South Africa has fewer police in the whole country than The City of London has. Sad but true.

The armed response signs you see are no different from what you see when in other countries you see ADT security signs, they are not really necessary as 99%of the unemployed are peace loving people who just want a chance to work. They don't have any skills and this limits them to poorly appreciated jobs that are low paid, the fear of them is greater than the danger they do not even pose.

The fear marketing by the media is used to keep the population in check as it is the only way the locals understand to do this.

Do yourself a favour understand that what you put out is what you get back and treat all the people you meet in RSA with respect and in my experience it is returned.

As a country the people (all the people's) of South Africa have a few characteristics in common, they are blunt and what you see if what you get which to other cultures can be very scary , don't be scared be happy as you don't have to guess. They are also very savvy when it comes to making money and those with a lot of fear are also quite greedy. This is a weakness from the fear of loss.

Be sure that you want to work hard and I can tell you from personal experience that you will make a lot of money, very quickly as it is there you just need the will to succeed. No different from any other country. The fear you can blame on that old twit Bush. He did more damage than the 'extremists' ever could on their own.

He did their job for them and the world is now a much more fearful place and this is borne out by the xenophobia I experienced in London first.

To date this has not happened in Cape Town, they are curious but no more than that. They are adjusting to the world and the neighbors coming to the New African Dream. Its a new century and the America dream has soured.

Be a part of the New Dream that is Africa and be a part of the positive things I have seen with my own eyes.

Oh and one more thing, keep your old bank accounts alive as the RSA reserve bank can be a royal pain. As a dual nationality person or a permanent resident you are legally allowed to have this so keep a post box or a family members address in the country of origin for your bank accounts etc.

I am not a lawyer so do not take this as legal advice, I read the law or government Gazette just like anyone else can, its online.