I never thought of South Africa

[gkloken]

Originally Posted by DannyBoy

Yes, it's really WONDERFUL here in Cape Town and South Africa.

Only last week the DOCTORS were on STRIKE.
The week before the SABC was on Strike.
The week before that the taxi's were on STRIKE.

It just keeps getting better and better.

In beautiful affluent areas like Hout Bay, squatter camps have sprung up like mushrooms. The rivers and ground water is full of human excrement and litter.

The Cape Flats now has gang wars. Street kids run around the downtown financial district of Cape Town after dark begging for money and looking for scraps to eat.

But as the previous thread mentions, it's ALL JUST PEACHY.

Farmers getting murdered....why it's just the WHITE press with an agenda.
Rampant crime and crumbling infrastructure......NOT TRUE....it's BETTER here than a first world country ?????
Educated people (black and white) immigrating in DROVES....it's just nonsense,.....no-one is leaving because the mountain is too beautiful for words.
My little girl goes to a kindergarden and every week it's a new rash she's got from playing with the other kids of dubious upbringing.
But as a dad if I complain about this then I'm a racist.

I want South Africa to work, I really do,...but from where I'm sitting it's just not happening. I see a failing medical system, good education becoming a pipe dream especially in the public schools, rampant corruption in the legal system, unbelievable rudeness and arrogance towards minorities and other African immigrants, and a weak Rand where the average Joe is living paycheck to paycheck just to stay above water.

All those bikes, and boats and SUV's the other poster saw,...she must have been dreaming about her days back in the old USA,.....because like I said, everyone I know (Black and white) is battling here in Sunny South Africa.

I wish it wasn't so.

Which of these things you complain about is not happening in UK, Europe and especially here in the USA?

Why does no one ever complain about places like Zimbabwe or the crime ridden Nigeria for instance.

It is often said by the Moderaters on Expat Forum that "one need to get the whole perspective on every country".

Hence "the reason" that South Africa was chosen to be the most criticized country on Expat Forums!

What concerns me is that one rarely hear such vehement criticism on any other country hear on the Forum.

And please do NOT come with the same old crap of "its only because SA is such a bad country and I never knew the critics experiences and children's exposures etcetera , etcetera".

Even Apartheid, that is hammered to death and still will not die, especially since it is now reversed Apartheid in SA.

Apartheid is old hat and for everyone's information:
Apartheid dates from long before SA gained its independence, even or should one say especially, mostly during British rule. It is on record in SA and other countries like India. Does anyone beat UK to death for all their crimes, strikes murders and more?

NO! Amazing isn't it . Wasn't it all about a balanced perspective then ?

In 1900 the blacks had to walk with the horses and carriages on the dirt roads to be far enough away from the whites "from Europe" that was flooding SA and did not want to be contaminated.

The same Apartheid was in existence in the USA during the slave era . Why then must one country be chosen to be the worst in every way.

South Africa is no worse than any other country including the USA which also have negative health systems, crimes, strikes, War Lords, Gangs, Drugs you name it.

I do not hear anyone on Expat Forum holding Germany's past mistakes against it now, or France, or Spain for that matter?

I also believe in the Law of Attraction.

Whatever your attitudes and believes are, is what you will experience in ANY country in the World.

And NO I do not want to hear those same old " beaten to death" stories about your personal experiences, believes and opinions yet once again.

Enough is ENOUGH!.

Just go and find another country to be the bad guy.

South Africa has so much to offer anyone that come with a positive attitude, ready to see all the beauty and the richness of its diverse culture , the still vast open areas with animals still in abundance.

Their friendly warm hearted people and the opportunities that exist.

Thank you South Africa you still are the Best, The Crown of Africa!

[Daxk]

so why are'nt you there? gloken?

[Halo]

Talk about rose coloured spectacles..... Wowsers.

[apricot]

Isn't ironic that most of those complaining about South Africa are either people living their or SA expats. Don't often see others complaining...

South Africa has become a cesspool and sadly for those who stay, it's better to be blase and try and live with the decrepid lifestyle than try and do something that is so futile.

I left SA ten years ago and have not been back. Also have no desire to. My memories are precious and I really don't want to replace them with all the squatter camps, exrement and filfth that one of the previous posters mention. By the heart, to that poster - my heart absolutely goes out to you. I know how worried you must be of your little girl, your future - and most of all your safety.

I wish you everything of the best.

[Suki]

Originally Posted by BeautifulMystique

Thank you Unseer and Bovinerebel for your posts!

I've been turned off by some of the negative posters but I've heard of such people you've mentioned. I mentioned to my BF what I have read here and he laughed his head off as he said some of the 'info' were over-exaggerated. He's white, btw and has no problem with whatever that is going on. Then again, maybe it's where he lives that has no problem such as those mentioned here and about on this board.

It's good to read the positive sides of South Africa. I'm excited as I've just browsed on a few really amazing looking guest houses and I cannot wait to get started!

No you wont get killed in the streets and it is not a war zone, however the threat of violoent crime is very real. Be aware that you will have to live behind bars. You will have to have security doors covering every door and burglar bars covering all your windows. Usually you will have a security front gate as well and your property will be completely walled in. An alarm system is recommedable and without one you wont be able to find a decent priced insurance.

When driving, you are always aware of and on the look out for potential hijackers / nasty looking people, you must always ensure that there is space between you and the car ahead so that there is an escape route should someone start making an attempt to hijack you. Always be prepared to run a red traffic light at night if someone unsavoury approaches your car. It is also very popular for criminals to wait in suburban areas at night and once you drive through your electric gate into your driveway they slip in behind you before it closes. And be aware criminals in SA carry guns and USE them. It is not uncommon for people to be shot in their own homes by burglars. So before driving into your driveway it is advisable to look around first, if you see something/someone you dont like, drive around the block a few times. Rape is a very real issue in South Africa and a woman has most to fear from burglars/hi-jackers. When driving, always keep your handbag at your feet and any parcels in your boot to avoid smash and grabs. Most traffic lights are riddled with beggars, hawkers and street children. Smash & grabs are commonplace at traffic lights. Never, ever leave your mobile phone on the passenger seat!

Of course when walking around also always be aware who is around you.
Doing the 360 degree check is so ingrained into South Africans that we dont even realise we are doing it and my description above may sound exagerated but beleive me it is not. Most South Africans do this as second nature.

Yes the weather is great, the landscapes are beautiful the outdoor lifestyle is wonderful but be prepared that you will always have to be security conscious to an extent that is not common in other countries.

[Daxk]

Good post,Suki.
Beautiful Mystique and the Husband who laughs.
As Suki (and I umpteen times )have said, what is described needs to become second nature.
which is fine if you have been doing it for years.
the problem is that you HAVE to remember to do it, everytime, just in case, and you wont even realise when you are NOT doing it, and thats where the danger creeps in.
its the dropping off te kids at the creche and for once the security Guard is'nt there and thinking I'm sure it'll be alright, its thinking it'll just be for a minute and skipping a routine.

I'm sure you have fetched South Africans from an Airport?
Whats the first thing they do when they get in the car?
Lock the doors!
Want to see them get really anxious? leave them in a car with a motor running and the doors open in the first day or two till they acclimatise to a safer Country?
I think you mentioned that your husbands family left because of crime?
Yet he is anxious to get back there?

[SABrits]

Originally Posted by apricot

I am a South African (now living in the US). I miss my country - the beautiful landscape and wildlife - but will never move back there. Sadly South Africa boasts one of the highest crime rates in the world as well as one of the highest HIV infection rates. Murder, rape, hijacking - it's all part of many people's days in the country and it's a tragedy that the government refuses to see the problem.

The 2010 FIFA World Cup is being hosted in South Africa and FIFA has warned that they will move the venue if something doesn't happen to change the crime situation.

Actually no - the UK has beaten all those records. South Africa does NOT have the highest crime rate - see all the local papers here for the records

[SABrits]

Originally Posted by gkloken

Which of these things you complain about is not happening in UK, Europe and especially here in the USA?

Why does no one ever complain about places like Zimbabwe or the crime ridden Nigeria for instance.

It is often said by the Moderaters on Expat Forum that "one need to get the whole perspective on every country".

Hence "the reason" that South Africa was chosen to be the most criticized country on Expat Forums!

What concerns me is that one rarely hear such vehement criticism on any other country hear on the Forum.

And please do NOT come with the same old crap of "its only because SA is such a bad country and I never knew the critics experiences and children's exposures etcetera , etcetera".

Even Apartheid, that is hammered to death and still will not die, especially since it is now reversed Apartheid in SA.

Apartheid is old hat and for everyone's information:
Apartheid dates from long before SA gained its independence, even or should one say especially, mostly during British rule. It is on record in SA and other countries like India. Does anyone beat UK to death for all their crimes, strikes murders and more?

NO! Amazing isn't it . Wasn't it all about a balanced perspective then ?

In 1900 the blacks had to walk with the horses and carriages on the dirt roads to be far enough away from the whites "from Europe" that was flooding SA and did not want to be contaminated.

The same Apartheid was in existence in the USA during the slave era . Why then must one country be chosen to be the worst in every way.

South Africa is no worse than any other country including the USA which also have negative health systems, crimes, strikes, War Lords, Gangs, Drugs you name it.

I do not hear anyone on Expat Forum holding Germany's past mistakes against it now, or France, or Spain for that matter?

I also believe in the Law of Attraction.

Whatever your attitudes and believes are, is what you will experience in ANY country in the World.

And NO I do not want to hear those same old " beaten to death" stories about your personal experiences, believes and opinions yet once again.

Enough is ENOUGH!.

Just go and find another country to be the bad guy.

South Africa has so much to offer anyone that come with a positive attitude, ready to see all the beauty and the richness of its diverse culture , the still vast open areas with animals still in abundance.

Their friendly warm hearted people and the opportunities that exist.

Thank you South Africa you still are the Best, The Crown of Africa!

And I agree..... Living in the UK away from 'it' all, and I am faced with crime, poverty and 'yobs'. Far too many health and safety laws. But then when you are away you learn to aprpeciate what you did have.

Enjoy it and make the most of it. All countries have their fair share of issues

[Daxk]

SABrits, kindly post the comparison between the UK and SA Crime rates per 100,000 population iro of serious crime such as Murder/manslaughter/ and rape.
Kindly also post the UK Commissioner of Police's comm,ents regarding what Assault refers to in the UK,especially the meaning of the word "Affray"
After that would you mind posting the independent research by UNISA and the SA Law Society on firstly Detection rates (ie a crime is committed and someone is charged) and Conviction rates for the above crimes.
Thank you,

[Daxk]

Originally Posted by Daxk

so why are'nt you there? gloken?

Maybe SABrits may wish to answer too?