I never thought of South Africa

[Unseer]

I posted this in another thread, wanted to respond here too. I'm a positive Saffa.

My wife & I have been living in London for just under 7 years now. We left SA to see the world and accidentally got great jobs in London, bought a house and had a kid. Hard to argue with the economic stability of the UK right? Problem is we forgot that everything we love, everything dear to us is back in South Africa so we're going back home.

Cape Town is the place we're aiming for, I've lived there before (also lived in Joburg) and it's a nice balance of beauty (it's so beautiful it hurts), crime (better than Joburg, not as good as Knysna where I grew up) and stability (SA set to grow by 4.8% in 2008). After living in London and driving the hour-plus to work through rush hour I think Cape Town is going to be a wonderful surprise.

I've also never felt any less safe in London than I did living in Joburg. I grew up on a farm in the Southern Cape and worked in a bottle store doing deliveries into the locations during high school so I've seen a lot of stuff.
SA is the wild west, it's painfully beautiful from coast to coast, incredibly vibrant in all aspects and as dangerous as a bag of mamba's. With all of this in mind, we get to make a choice and we have chosen.

I love South Africa more intensely than ever before and its time to go home.

[BeautifulMystique]

Originally Posted by Unseer

I posted this in another thread, wanted to respond here too. I'm a positive Saffa.

My wife & I have been living in London for just under 7 years now. We left SA to see the world and accidentally got great jobs in London, bought a house and had a kid. Hard to argue with the economic stability of the UK right? Problem is we forgot that everything we love, everything dear to us is back in South Africa so we're going back home.

Cape Town is the place we're aiming for, I've lived there before (also lived in Joburg) and it's a nice balance of beauty (it's so beautiful it hurts), crime (better than Joburg, not as good as Knysna where I grew up) and stability (SA set to grow by 4.8% in 2008). After living in London and driving the hour-plus to work through rush hour I think Cape Town is going to be a wonderful surprise.

I've also never felt any less safe in London than I did living in Joburg. I grew up on a farm in the Southern Cape and worked in a bottle store doing deliveries into the locations during high school so I've seen a lot of stuff.
SA is the wild west, it's painfully beautiful from coast to coast, incredibly vibrant in all aspects and as dangerous as a bag of mamba's. With all of this in mind, we get to make a choice and we have chosen.

I love South Africa more intensely than ever before and its time to go home.

I've been to Cape Town twice and I love it there.

Unseer, I wish you had PM privilege. I'd love to know more about Cape Town as I am planning to move there.

[Unseer]

Hi BeautifulMystique

Unfortunately I've only just found and joined this forum so no privileges of any kind yet. I'm going to monologue a little first and then get to Cape Town. Stay with me.

I've taken a look at some of the other threads and posts on this section and there are certainly some common themes both positive and negative. The big thing about SA is that "it is what it is". Sure things are rocky, things are rocky everywhere. Yes there's crime, no it's not a war zone. Yes the government can come across as dumb, no it's not unique to SA and yes it's getting better. We've just been through 14 years of starting over and it's been an interesting ride of short & medium term adjustments in the balance of opportunity. Introducing a brand new government driven by one fundamental goal of providing for the folk that elected it will do that to you. Thankfully we've got a wonderfully stable economy as a base from which to effect change, one that's intrinsically linked to the markets all around the world. Who could ask for more?

The infrastructure in SA is 1st world, the customer service is a little lumpy but excellent. People are richer than ever before and taking a look at the number of new cars on the road, the number of businesses that have remained successful, and grown in spite of the potential effects of BEE, I'd say things are peachy. I have the greatest respect for the leading business folk in SA, regardless of colour.

So, enough of that. On to Cape Town. Cape Town is pretty cool, it's a city that's grown organically and is wonderfully sculpted in some areas and also reflects the influx of folk from the rural areas looking for their share of the pie. All in all, it's lovely, certainly much more beautiful than London. I think it's the mountain that does it. And the sea. And the sun. And the people.

Am I worried about the safety of my wife and little girl? Absolutely, but we live in Carshalton (in London) in what I like to call "chav central" and my wife worries every day about taking our little one for a walk. A good friend of ours was assaulted in our street by a group of girls and their mothers who in turn were assaulting another lass. They really took offense to her being South African. So do I worry anymore than I do here? I do, but not much.

Cape Town, as with the rest of the country in varying degrees, is a city that has a balance of good and bad that's in excess of London, San Antonio, New York, Perth and a number of other places I've visited. It's as easy to be successful in Cape Town as it is in any other city, the opportunities are the same and sometimes greater. With the world cup coming up things are certainly going to get much more interesting over the next two years.

I know it's a long post, you can tell I'm passionate about the topic can't you.

[bovinerebel]

Hey unseer. That's one of the more level-headed rational posts about South Africa I've seen in a while. None of the hyperbole and bald faced lies one so often sees , depecting it as a war zone where people just fall over in the streets. Good on you .

[bovinerebel]

One thing remains true about South Africa. Take this to mean what you want , but we struggle to get people to come here , because before they do they have to sift through a lot of negative rubbish written by either the few white people who have been affected by crime (it's uniquely south african that they feel they are a victim of some conspiracy as oppossed to socio-econimic freakishly bad misfortune...and yes....they are a very few) or those who love to advertise any failure from the black government due to being bitter about losing power and privelege.

But despite that , those that come to South Africa for the gross majority love it , find it nothing like the negative version sold by the white agenda filled media , find the quality of life excellent , the people warm and friendly and the county beautiful , creative and vibrant. That's why south african tourism only manages to get 6 million people here every year , but has the highest percentage of repeat visitors. It's a great place to live and you're more than welcome to be part of what many of us , whose voices are drowned out by the emotive irrational doomsdayers , consider to be a wonderful future.

[BeautifulMystique]

Thank you Unseer and Bovinerebel for your posts!

I've been turned off by some of the negative posters but I've heard of such people you've mentioned. I mentioned to my BF what I have read here and he laughed his head off as he said some of the 'info' were over-exaggerated. He's white, btw and has no problem with whatever that is going on. Then again, maybe it's where he lives that has no problem such as those mentioned here and about on this board.

It's good to read the positive sides of South Africa. I'm excited as I've just browsed on a few really amazing looking guest houses and I cannot wait to get started!

[bovinerebel]

Originally Posted by BeautifulMystique

Thank you Unseer and Bovinerebel for your posts!

I've been turned off by some of the negative posters but I've heard of such people you've mentioned. I mentioned to my BF what I have read here and he laughed his head off as he said some of the 'info' were over-exaggerated. He's white, btw and has no problem with whatever that is going on. Then again, maybe it's where he lives that has no problem such as those mentioned here and about on this board.

It's good to read the positive sides of South Africa. I'm excited as I've just browsed on a few really amazing looking guest houses and I cannot wait to get started!

Yes , please remember that the people who come on these forums to spread the bad news do in no way represent your average South African. Most South Africans are too busy worrying about what they are going to do on the weekend to be running around expats forums giving their opinions. Sadly that leaves the loud few with an racist agenda to come on these places and spread a lot of nonsense unchecked by reality and facts.

As I suggested some people have geniune gripes and were victims of crime. They are the gross minority of the country and while I'm sympathetic I do wish they'd not project all their hate onto the country and black people as a whole. You're average black South African is a kind , god fearing person with no interest in carrying out any crime. In fact the gross majority of black South Africans are as described.

My advice is please come see for yourself and that should make it clear exactly how much these people are misrepresenting South Africa. The odds of anything happening to you are astronomically low and nothing any rational person should ever worry about.

[DannyBoy]

Yes, it's really WONDERFUL here in Cape Town and South Africa.

Only last week the DOCTORS were on STRIKE.
The week before the SABC was on Strike.
The week before that the taxi's were on STRIKE.

It just keeps getting better and better.

In beautiful affluent areas like Hout Bay, squatter camps have sprung up like mushrooms. The rivers and ground water is full of human excrement and litter.

The Cape Flats now has gang wars. Street kids run around the downtown financial district of Cape Town after dark begging for money and looking for scraps to eat.

But as the previous thread mentions, it's ALL JUST PEACHY.

Farmers getting murdered....why it's just the WHITE press with an agenda.
Rampant crime and crumbling infrastructure......NOT TRUE....it's BETTER here than a first world country ?????
Educated people (black and white) immigrating in DROVES....it's just nonsense,.....no-one is leaving because the mountain is too beautiful for words.
My little girl goes to a kindergarden and every week it's a new rash she's got from playing with the other kids of dubious upbringing.
But as a dad if I complain about this then I'm a racist.

I want South Africa to work, I really do,...but from where I'm sitting it's just not happening. I see a failing medical system, good education becoming a pipe dream especially in the public schools, rampant corruption in the legal system, unbelievable rudeness and arrogance towards minorities and other African immigrants, and a weak Rand where the average Joe is living paycheck to paycheck just to stay above water.

All those bikes, and boats and SUV's the other poster saw,...she must have been dreaming about her days back in the old USA,.....because like I said, everyone I know (Black and white) is battling here in Sunny South Africa.

I wish it wasn't so.

[barocko7]

Hi, I`m new to this Forum and just can`t believe the reality of so much crime, as some members have edited. What I do imagine is, that the crime rate would be more-or-less identical with the USA or other parts of the World.
It`s only normal that people take precautions in their everyday life the minute they close the front door and walk outside.
I simply believe it can`t be sooooo bad in SA! If it was, then there surely would`nt be so many immigrants coming to SA as they do.

I`ve also heard stories, that Snakes and all kinds of wild animals roam the streets & gardens within the communitys. Really???

My wife & I (retiring) will be relocating within the next two years to Somerset West or Strand (not sure yet which area) and I would greatly appreciate any helpful insider information about the economical situation (prices for food etc.), everyday life, the people, weather humidity in that area & social contact possibilitys with good people living there.

We look for the good in people - not the bad!

In Europe you have the clock - in South Africa the time!

Hoping to hear from you folks!
Mike

[Daxk]

Well.there's only one way to find out wether its safe to stay in SA, move there.
We've argued this one so much I'm not even going to start, just two small questions if I may:

Unseer, why are you living in such a cheap area of London? Thats the equivalent of living in one of Jhbg's worst low income areas?
Or are you saving money?

Bovinerebel, those 6 million tourists, the SA Tourist board figures said that about 4 million of those came from other parts of Africa, mostly Nigeria if I recall?

As to your comments that criticism of the Govt is racist,
90% of the SA Govt happens to be Black, and they create most of of the grounds for criticism.
Or do you think that Carl Niehaus recently did'nt get criticised because he was white?
And no, I dont want apartheid back, and I do believe that the previous white govt was also corrupt, they just seemed to be better at not destroying everything else in the process.

Go people,one of two things will happen, nothing, or you will wish you had'nt ever heard of the place.