Moving to Cape town from the US

[Daxk]

Originally Posted by captainjakeman

Dear "boring",

I don't think it's possible for you to say something positive is it? (no don't answer that, I forgot, you are to busy "enjoying to spend quality and peacefull time with my family".)
You are so covertly hostile I'm amazed you are allowed to remain.

We know who you are.

That is actualy so funny!!
The Self Named captain has'nt been on this forum a wet day and is making judgements and attacking!!

Its an open forum,well moderated, and allows freedom of speech, captainjakeman, it allows open minds,

Tell me, how do you know who we are?
Should we be concerned about a knock on the door in the middle of the night?

[Zimtony]

Originally Posted by captainjakeman

Dear "boring",

I don't think it's possible for you to say something positive is it? (no don't answer that, I forgot, you are to busy "enjoying to spend quality and peacefull time with my family".)
You are so covertly hostile I'm amazed you are allowed to remain.

We know who you are.

captainjakeman, what an inane post. This forum is based on the principle that freedom of expression rules - not ridiculous covert sounding expressions. "We know who you are" Are you with the FBI/CID/Specials/ etc? I think your time in the USA has left you a bit struck with Americanisms! Whilst we all by now most certainly know who you are, judging by your self-glorifying personal website, (ridiculous references to the wife unit! What the hell is that about?), the rest of us are just happy to express our opinions and share experiences.

BTW judging by the list of celebreties that you have done work for, I don't think that Bruynzeel Enterprises Inc would struggle to find work in SA. Good luck.

"I'll be back" The Terminator, 1984

[JulianQ101]

I am born and raised in Cape Town area; moved to Toronto 5 years ago for a variety of reasons.

I am NOT one of the Saffers who bash SA to feel good about the emigration and, in general, I tend to focus on the good side of SA. So... my wife and I were in serious planning to move back to Cape Town in few years time.

HERE IS WHY WE ARE RECONSIDERING THE MOVE BACK:

[Zimtony]

Originally Posted by JulianQ101

I am born and raised in Cape Town area; moved to Toronto 5 years ago for a variety of reasons.

I am NOT one of the Saffers who bash SA to feel good about the emigration and, in general, I tend to focus on the good side of SA. So... my wife and I were in serious planning to move back to Cape Town in few years time.

HERE IS WHY WE ARE RECONSIDERING THE MOVE BACK:

So, no reason then??

[JulianQ101]

Sorry guys! MY PC froze up when I was posting.

Here is message again...
************************************************** *********

I am born and raised in Cape Town area; moved to Toronto 5 years ago for a variety of reasons.

I am NOT one of the Saffers who bash SA to feel good about the emigration and, in general, I tend to focus on the good side of SA. So... my wife and I were in serious planning to move back to Cape Town in few years time.

HERE IS WHY WE ARE RECONSIDERING THE MOVE BACK:

My theory (and stats agreed) that most crime was in the poor areas, so all you needed to do was to exercise common sense and avoid certain areas. Easy, right? But it's not that simple. Armed home invasions - where up market areas are the target - seems to be on the increase. Yes, in Cape Town!

I wont mention the name of the suburb but there's a very upscale area in the northern suburbs of Cape Town that was my dream home destination. It's in the Plattekloof region. The plan was to buy a home there if we returned. So I got hold of the "meeting minutes" of the body corporate of the suburb. What I read in the meeting documents scared me and my wife to death. At the meetings that were minuted and recorded over the past 2 years, they discussed several home invasions! What? And they discussed more information about the 2 neighbouring suburbs (also very upscale) and their dramatic increase in what they termed "many violent armed robberies and home invasions."

I keep a daily eye on the Cape news (because we were planning to move back) and I've read NOTHING about these incidents. Nothing! Yet the managerial association of the area was clearly discussing MANY violent incidents "at places of residence" in an area you would think is so safe. I was, and I am, still shocked and disappointed.

My point? Tourists to the Cape, living in a hotel, can be very safe on vacation if they use big city common sense. But if you live 24/7 in an up market suburban area then the driveway hijacking and armed home invasion risk is much much higher than most other countries. The Cape is still safe by SA standards, but the trend is going in the wrong direction I think in terms of certain violent crimes. Overall crime is down but the stats can be misleading.

I've also read annual stats from several police stations that service *mainly* middle class and/or up market areas (e.g. Durbanville, Claremont) and there appears to me more and more what they term aggravated robbery at place of residence (that's the term for a home invasion) and hijacking at place of residence (that's the term for a driveway car jacking).

To the tourists: go to Cape Town and ENJOY it. It really is a beautiful city. Use common sense and you should be safe. It's no worse than any big city. But I'm having serious second thoughts on living there again. This is not coming from a negative anti-SAn trying to justify why I left. I WANT TO RETURN TO CAPE TOWN and we can afford to return. Nothing is forcing to stay outside CT. We miss the place and financially speaking (with the dollars we have) we could buy a top home cash there. All our family is there. It's tempting to go back. But some recent research has scared me.

[Daxk]

Julian, Good post.
I have found very few "Doomsayers" who would not bounce up and down with joy if SA were to be sorted out and be safer than it is.
A lot of us,especiallly myself, still have major family there who cannot leave (or in my mothers case,feels that starting over at 80 when she still has Children,grandchildren etc who cannot leave) and at risk.
For a number of reasons, I still get emails from governing bodies/Body Corporates Minutes of meetings, am still subscribed to Community Policing Forums newsletters and also know that unlesss there is blood, it wont appear in the press.
This has been caused by a request from Govt as well as pressure from the Estate Agencies not to "Sensationalise" crime in an area.

A new suggestion has been made that the press also sometimes post "Inconsequential" crime stories, ie a School lost some computers, a hawker left his days takings in a taxi etc.
and Jeremy mansfield fell for the trick recently.

I dont need to justify my leaving, I would be back tomorrow if it were safe to raise a 10 year old daughter there.
Its not.

[JulianQ101]

Originally Posted by Daxk

...For a number of reasons, I still get emails from governing bodies/Body Corporates Minutes of meetings, am still subscribed to Community Policing Forums newsletters and also know that unlesss there is blood, it wont appear in the press...

I am sad to say, but I think you are correct. Like I mentioned, I regularly read the Cape news and nothing was mentioned when, in fact, there were several driveway jackings and home invasions in 2007 and 2008. The neighbourhood that I am talking about is the last place you would expect even one single event - let alone several of them... I am *assuming* that because nobody got killed, it never made the news. All I can say is wow! The members of the meeting listed the incidents are "violent" so the occupants were probably beaten up etc, etc. And most criminologists agree that rape is very under reported. I shudder at the thought. So my concern is that there could be many dangerous and life altering events happening in regular suburbs that are going unreported in the news.

If I had not read the meeting notes from the body corporate, I would have 100% bought a house there, thinking it was a super safe area to live and raise a family. I am assuming things could be similar in many other suburbs then.

The question my wife and I are grappling with is how do we actually measure the risk. Yes, despite the risks, we do want to return. But moving back is beginning to feel like buying a lottery ticket, except the odds are in the wrong direction. Someone once said that ignorance is bliss. The more I'm digging and learning, the less we want to go back.

[SABrits]

Are you moving with no assistance? If you are with a Provider, ask them to assist you - it should be part of your package.

[Daxk]

Julian, it IS a lottery.
In all honesty, you could live there forever and have nothing more irritating than the "petty" crimes I mentioned.
Also, CT IS safer than Jhbg, the Unisa crime report shows that 50% of the 50,000 odd Home invasions that happened were in Gauteng, and it depends on your risk acceptance, If I did'nt have children I would probably still be in SA, but my checklist made it unacceptable.

I had no intention of saying "If Only..."

[Daxk]

Originally Posted by SABrits

Are you moving with no assistance? If you are with a Provider, ask them to assist you - it should be part of your package.

Explain what a providor is?
Is it someone who can guarantee that nothing will happen?