Moving to Cape town from the US

[luismg]

Time and time again I've been reading both sides of the story, and I still don't know what to believe...
What it seems to me, is that there is something really wrong with southafricans today. I'm sorry, I don't want to offend anyone, but people you have a serious self esteem problem.

I am argentinian, I've visited CapeTown a couple years ago and I found one of the most pleasant and beatiful places I've ever seen.
I've been there only three days, so I cannot make an oppinion of course.
I can only tell you what I felt and saw, and I liked it a lot.
It is very hard to imagine something bad happening there, although I might be wrong.

Some time ago, I posted a long message asking about the real situation in South Africa and Cape Town in particular, because the contrast between what I saw with my own eyes, and what I read everyday in the news is strickingly shocking.

I understand that CT may not be representative of the rest of SA, and that perhaps Johannesburg is way different, but I still wonder if I should believe what many southafricans say about their own country.

I don't deny that thre may be problems (which country doesn't have problems??), but I feel that many expat southafricans need to convince themselves that they made the right decission when leaving.

Am I wrong?
People, there are crime everywhere.
Crime in Rio de Janeiro, for example, is rampant. But it doesn't harm tourism and I know people who still love this city with all their heart.
I don't think the situation in CP or JB is any different or worst. Is it?

I have a theory:
Expat southafricans miss the old regime, where they were completely safe, and now they feel everything is completely out of control because the old regime does not exist anymore. And now they are crying out loud so others can see what they've done to their country. (I insist, I may be wrong. Please tell me what you think).

Luis

Originally Posted by Daxk

" but never had a prob in SA"
Which is why you keep on going back there.
Until something does happen whereupon you have this damascus type conversion and cant understand why anyone in their right mind wishes to go there.
Or you are so embarrassed that you neve mention it again online,just in case someone sings you the Sha nan naan na song.(which is the most frequent occurrence)
Or you are dead.

Or, you get seriously lucky and never have anything life threatening happen to you and just cant understand why people say its unsafe.

There are three kinds of people in SA.
Victims of Violent crime.
People who have'nt yet experienced Violent crime
Violent criminals.

The only people who can tell me theres no chance violent crime will happen to them in SA, are either already dead or not living in SA .

[Daxk]

Luis, there is only one way to find out.
Go there, go and live in Johannesburg, maybe you are lucky,maybe you are unlucky.

as to your theories, you are saying the same thing that people who cannot understand why almost a 1/3rd of the white population left, why every little pop survey about wether South africans would emigrate if they had the chance shows that the 60 odd % of middle class white south africans and about 28% of middle class Black south africans say that Crime makes them want to leave SA.
so tell me Luis, why do so many South Africans want to leave?

you are right,I do miss the Old apartheid regime, but my aim is improving.

I think the whole bunch from Verwoerd on should be dug up, their bones crushed and the dust scattered in pit latrines.

I think the whole living bunch except RF Botha and De Klerk should be put against a wall and shot.

as to your comment about that we were safer,yes we were, for a very good reason.
compare the the detection and conviction rates pre-1994 and post 94 you will see a huge difference.

Murderers and rapists were caught in greater numbers, they were put in prison and some of them were hung.
People feared the Police and the law system, now even the Police officers dont trust each other not to be corrupt.

There are two kinds of expat South Africans. those who go for two year work experience which may stretch to 7-10 years and then there are the middle aged with a couple of kids(30-40) who leave everything they have built to start new in another Country, to do it as a young
person who is unattached, does'nt have children or a home is a lot easier then someone who is settled in their career,their home and yet feels strongly enough to leave it all behind.

And the argument that they did it because of racism is stupid, because they go to Countries that have no impediment to race.
if they are leaving because they dont want to live next to a black Family why do they go to places where black families can live next door to them.
To places where black and white children are equal in Schools?
(My daughters school has Nigerian,Somalian and South african Black children in its classrooms)

Are the newspapers lieing about Crime?
if so, why are they ALL reporting crime.
why are they ALL saying Violent crime levels are too high?
What happens if they are under reporting crime?

again,its very easy, go to SA, go and join the local Community Blockwatch, even in "safe" Cape, then come and tell me after about 6 months wether its safe or not?

Your thought that expat Saffers are trying to justify their reasons for leaving.

If someone leaves with a qualification and some experience, goes overseas and gets even more experience, earns Foreign Currency that is more than he would have had he stayed in SA, at the end of the day, none of us have burnt our boats.
Anyone of us who has been overseas can go back and be more employable than we left.
we can go back with more money to buy a house cash,start a business than most of the time had we stayed in SA.
We're more employable than a foreigner who has to get a work permit, our SA salaries are cheaper, we understand the Languages and Culture better, we know the legal and tax environment better, we have networks from School and varsity and Work in place,

Any of the between 900,000 and 1,5 million expat South Africans could slip seamlessly into place in SA

What makes most of them so adamant theet they dont want to?
especially the ones with kids?

[luismg]

Daxk, you mentioned "safe" Cape.
Why? Does it mean that Cape Town is safer than the rest of the country? Is it an exception or it just has crime as the rest?

Is it perhaps that a short visit to CapeTown gave me a wrong perception of safeness?

Luis

Originally Posted by Daxk

Luis, there is only one way to find out.
Go there, go and live in Johannesburg, maybe you are lucky,maybe you are unlucky.

as to your theories, you are saying the same thing that people who cannot understand why almost a 1/3rd of the white population left, why every little pop survey about wether South africans would emigrate if they had the chance shows that the 60 odd % of middle class white south africans and about 28% of middle class Black south africans say that Crime makes them want to leave SA.
so tell me Luis, why do so many South Africans want to leave?

you are right,I do miss the Old apartheid regime, but my aim is improving.

I think the whole bunch from Verwoerd on should be dug up, their bones crushed and the dust scattered in pit latrines.

I think the whole living bunch except RF Botha and De Klerk should be put against a wall and shot.

as to your comment about that we were safer,yes we were, for a very good reason.
compare the the detection and conviction rates pre-1994 and post 94 you will see a huge difference.

Murderers and rapists were caught in greater numbers, they were put in prison and some of them were hung.
People feared the Police and the law system, now even the Police officers dont trust each other not to be corrupt.

There are two kinds of expat South Africans. those who go for two year work experience which may stretch to 7-10 years and then there are the middle aged with a couple of kids(30-40) who leave everything they have built to start new in another Country, to do it as a young
person who is unattached, does'nt have children or a home is a lot easier then someone who is settled in their career,their home and yet feels strongly enough to leave it all behind.

And the argument that they did it because of racism is stupid, because they go to Countries that have no impediment to race.
if they are leaving because they dont want to live next to a black Family why do they go to places where black families can live next door to them.
To places where black and white children are equal in Schools?
(My daughters school has Nigerian,Somalian and South african Black children in its classrooms)

Are the newspapers lieing about Crime?
if so, why are they ALL reporting crime.
why are they ALL saying Violent crime levels are too high?
What happens if they are under reporting crime?

again,its very easy, go to SA, go and join the local Community Blockwatch, even in "safe" Cape, then come and tell me after about 6 months wether its safe or not?

Your thought that expat Saffers are trying to justify their reasons for leaving.

If someone leaves with a qualification and some experience, goes overseas and gets even more experience, earns Foreign Currency that is more than he would have had he stayed in SA, at the end of the day, none of us have burnt our boats.
Anyone of us who has been overseas can go back and be more employable than we left.
we can go back with more money to buy a house cash,start a business than most of the time had we stayed in SA.
We're more employable than a foreigner who has to get a work permit, our SA salaries are cheaper, we understand the Languages and Culture better, we know the legal and tax environment better, we have networks from School and varsity and Work in place,

Any of the between 900,000 and 1,5 million expat South Africans could slip seamlessly into place in SA

What makes most of them so adamant theet they dont want to?
especially the ones with kids?

[Daxk]

Luis, I dont know, we are discussing this on another thread, te western Cape has a very high murder rate, but it tends to be gang related within the poorer areas, you have bad areas right next to Top areas such as Constantia and Houtbay,
There are home invasions but less of them, there are more Rapes,but they tend to be in the Townships, there are hi-jackings but again less as the major markets for the cars are either 1400kms away in Jhbg or 2000 kms away through Zimbabwe, which is alot of chances to go through a roadblock.
Maybe the Criminals in CT are different to the ones in the rest of the Country?

but again,you could drive through and live in Jhbg for years and only have irritating crime,
but if it happens, it tends to be a biggie.

some people discount it, others dont.

[Daxk]

Luis, this is the survey I was referring to, its a year out of date so maybe by now all the ones who left cannot or are so happy they are doing headstands.

News24 - Error

"But in 2007, sentiments had changed with 41% of whites, 38% of blacks, 42% of coloureds and 30% of Indians thinking of leaving the country. "

sort of shoots anyone who tells you that its all bitter racist expats who want a return to slavery in the foot.

[Daxk]

News24 - Error

lets if that gives the addy

[alexie62]

Hello Breton, as a Capetonian by birth (although not livng there any longer) I would opt for Durbanville central, Durbanville Hills, Kendrige, Aurora and surrounding areas. Particularly because you are a family with young children, the integration should not be a problem a the Durbanville community are extremely hospitable, its still relatively safe, they have good schools, its close to the main N1 Highway and to the CTN City Centre (some 20-30mins drive). Also close to beach areas. I would not advise on the Century City, Bothasig and surrounding areas as these are easily accessible by criminals for all types of crime, particularly robberies. Its also a bit secluded whereas Durbanville is fully integrated and established. Best of Luck! Regards

Originally Posted by bretongreen

Hello
I will be moving my family to Capetown from the US and will love advice on where we can live that is very secured and schools the children can go to, they are 13,11, and 7 years of Age.My wife and I are both Medical Doctors.
Thanks
Breton

[capepamela]

Hi, just wondering if you have made the move yet? I just joined the group but would be happy to assist you if you still need any info. My husband and I moved to ZA from Missouri three years ago and love it here. We have three kids, 14, 12 and 9.

[Boi]

how do i send PM on this forum?

[captainjakeman]

Originally Posted by Martinw

Yeah its is such a dump. I am just wondering why the biggest number of immigrants into Australia come from New Zealand. ( and most of them also happen to be the South Africans - Everyone knows that a lot of South Africans used NZ as a stepping stone to get to AUS a while back and prob still do.)Lets see. Excellent weather, rich country, good at sport, safety and security( and by the way if the crime escalates here, then we of course know what it is doing in any other part of the world)
Seeing that you say you have relatives here, I would take it that you dont acyually live here so how woulf you know if it is a boring dump. Oh yes sorry I missed the part where dodging bullets and hijackers in South Africa makes life exciting. If you are in South Africa, well you can enjoy doing all those funfilled activities everyday. I will will enjoy my "boring" life here and enjoying to spend quality and peacefull time with my family. Are you doing the same?

Dear "boring",

I don't think it's possible for you to say something positive is it? (no don't answer that, I forgot, you are to busy "enjoying to spend quality and peacefull time with my family".)
You are so covertly hostile I'm amazed you are allowed to remain.

We know who you are.