Is it really that bad

[d123]

Originally Posted by Orbit24

So I spent some time looking at your figures, makes SA look expensive..

If your prime lending rate is .5% then buying a house in Peterborough for £170000 and paying it off over 20 years will cost around £750/month? Does this look correct?

Mortgage rate is higher than prime, I've seen a few offered around 2.8%.

You can throw your figures in at BBC - Homes - Property - Mortgage calculator

Mortgage rates are on most bank websites. £17000 would be around £900 at 20 years, £700 at 30 years.

To add, I'm not sure of other areas, but at £150k-£160k you will get quite a bit of house for your money in the North East. For example:
http://www.pattinson.co.uk/

annoying renaming of historical street names and I can see why the grass looked greener on the other side bshoward!

I saw the renaming starting up when I was last there, as an outsider now I found some of it quite idiotically comical. Why couldn't they just change a surname for a surname?

I still remember the impossibly long names for some of the CBD roads like Smith, West and Gale streets. It would have been easier for everyone if they had just used the surname (perhaps they were too scared people wouldnt know who half the "heros" were).

[whiteroses]

Good Morning,

I am a South African newly moved to the Uk and am needing to buy insurance for car and household. Your quoted 450 pounds sounds very reasonable - could you please advise which Insurance Company this is. Many thanks

Originally Posted by d123

Wow, things really have got expensive!

I can't believe even rent is so much higher, as an example, my son has just rented a 2 bed semi with large gardens in a good area for £550 a month, even on a £1:R13 conversion that's in a similar price bracket.

Just renewed my phone contract, 600 minutes, 500text, unlimited internet and a Galaxy S3 is going to cost me £18 a month.

About to renew my insurance, car and household renewal quotes are coming in around £450 for the next year.

Some other prices I know without having to look them up.

Bank a/c fees £0, plenty of free current accounts, it's only if you want extras like travel insurance included that there are account fees.

Electricity and Gas are £95 a month.

Council tax (rates) £1100 per annum (£100 pm for 11 months)

Home Internet with Virgin cable - 20meg line £7.50 pm
Home phone with unlimited standard calls £17.50 pm

Water £32 pm

Garden service £25 pm

[d123]

Originally Posted by whiteroses

Good Morning,

I am a South African newly moved to the Uk and am needing to buy insurance for car and household. Your quoted 450 pounds sounds very reasonable - could you please advise which Insurance Company this is. Many thanks

Hi, if you are a new arrival you will unfortunately not have a UK no claims bonus and can probably expect to pay double that at the start . I would suggest going to a broker for your first policy as they can search a lot more sources than even the comparison websites. If you are still to buy a car look on Parkers.co.uk for cars in the lower insurance groups to get the premium down (1l Corsa, Ford Ka as examples).

I found my cheapest policies at Swiftcover via comparethemarket.com if you would like to try it for yourself.

EDIT: but as your location is France all off the above probably doesn't apply.

[gushungo]

I recently moved from Germany to South Africa. The biggest differences I've noticed in household costs are:

1) Cars are much more expensive in SA then Western Europe. And second hand car prices in SA are just ridiculous. A 3 year old car with 70k kms on the clock in a dealership might be offered at 70% to 80% of the price of a new model. In Germany the price would be closer to 50%.

2) Car hire is much cheaper - sometimes half the price of Western Europe. In Germany a Polo will cost around at least EUR60 for a single day hire (maybe 25% cheaper weekly), in SA closer to ZAR300.

3) Eating out in SA is ridiculously cheap - a meal in a restaurant costs hardly more than the ingredients would cost in Woolies or PicknPay. In Germany the same meal would cost 4 or 5 times as much. Supermarket food prices are fairly similar between the two countries. If you go for somewhere like Netto (or Tesco Value Range in UK) then this is much cheaper than SA supermarkets - although obviously the real markets are much, much cheaper if you're brave enough to buy there.

4) Housing is much cheaper in SA, particularly outside Jozi. In Munich a tiny box would cost you EUR1k per month. In SA, say Centurion for example, ZAR10k will get you a very nice detached house with double garage and garden.

5) Home help in SA is ridiculously cheap. In Jozi R200 per day or cheaper. You'd pay that per hour in Munich.

Originally Posted by Orbit24

So I spent some time looking at your figures, makes SA look expensive..

If your prime lending rate is .5% then buying a house in Peterborough for £170000 and paying it off over 20 years will cost around £750/month? Does this look correct?

By direct comparison in mobiles I took the S3 on contract renewal two weeks ago. 500 minutes, 100 free texts, 1G of monthly Data over 24 months. R1500 or £115/month.

Insurance seems to be much less as are mobile phone contracts, ADSL, cars, banking charges, medical, schooling and pension.

Now take away the threat of violent crime, signifigant corruption and extensive
annoying renaming of historical street names and I can see why the grass looked greener on the other side bshoward!

Thx for the feedback on schooling and jobs. I see that similar jobs to mine are advertised at around £30 - £35k per year with some perks. I don't think this would see me into a R170k house..

All food for thought, great thread.

[Johanna]

Originally Posted by gushungo

3) Eating out in SA is ridiculously cheap - a meal in a restaurant costs hardly more than the ingredients would cost in Woolies or PicknPay. In Germany the same meal would cost 4 or 5 times as much. Supermarket food prices are fairly similar between the two countries. If you go for somewhere like Netto (or Tesco Value Range in UK) then this is much cheaper than SA supermarkets - although obviously the real markets are much, much cheaper if you're brave enough to buy there.

4) Housing is much cheaper in SA, particularly outside Jozi. In Munich a tiny box would cost you EUR1k per month. In SA, say Centurion for example, ZAR10k will get you a very nice detached house with double garage and garden.

5) Home help in SA is ridiculously cheap. In Jozi R200 per day or cheaper. You'd pay that per hour in Munich.

You are so right, eating out is very cheap and real value for money.

Having help with regards to house and garden, gardens are bigger than in Europe and there is more dust, so a cleaner and gardner are handy.

I do hope you pay more than R200 per day?

[gushungo]

Originally Posted by Johanna

I do hope you pay more than R200 per day?

I have a maid one day a fortnight and pay R190 for 07:30-14:30. The maid works most days for the landlady at the B'n'B where I stayed when I first arrived and said that R190 was her normal rate so I never questionned it. Nobody at work mentioned that this was out of line with what they pay. What do you think I should offer to pay?

[Daxk]

Originally Posted by Johanna

You are so right, eating out is very cheap and real value for money.

Having help with regards to house and garden, gardens are bigger than in Europe and there is more dust, so a cleaner and gardner are handy.

I do hope you pay more than R200 per day?

Yeah, saw this often, new "Madam" arrives, usually from the UK, shock and horror, starts paying double and going over the top, maid lords it over the buddies, pretty soon there are maids out of work as they want more money, then a new batch moves in who have been without work and are prepared to work at the old wage.....white suburban homes dont make payscales, supply and demand does,

if you suddenly insisted that all maids earn R10,000 a month with 50% contribution to medical and pension, ........................
how many maids will still have jobs at the end of the month?

PS: my maid always earned more than her buddies, she got the difference as a bonus.

[Adelita]

You do not need anyone to tell you how bad SA is, all you have to do is read up on the latest horror stories from the news, and read between the lines. I've lived in Johannesburg, Pretoria and Limpopo - and the only difference is the varying degrees of racism, crime, filth, and the people's attitudes towards one another.

I love South Africa - I stayed right next to the Kruger National Park. Half of my family stays there, the other half in England, America and Australia. I did not have R4000 to spend on medical aid, was too scared to walk anywhere, couldn't take my kids to a public park since it's too filthy and God alone knows what my kids might step into running around there, and clung to my kids' hands when walking in town because I was scared they'll get snatched! If it was at all possible, I'd have gone to stay in the remotest part of South Africa living off the land, if it would have meant less stress about the other people around me and ensure the safety of my kids.

The very first time I went to London, I went for 2 years. Stayed in London self and didn't like it as it was nothing like what I was used to. So I went to places like Edgeworth, Cornwall and Wales. I absolutely loved it! Even though it rains 4 days out of the week, it wasn't the heavy downpour we'd experience back in SA and we still ventured outdoors to ride horses or take walks. I loved England and still regrets having had to come to South Africa. To me, it was utter peace and freedom - being able to walk when and where I wanted to without having to worry about being robbed/mobbed/raped/assaulted. Then my brother came over and opened his own business and has been here for 5 years now - in the heart of London. I've gone to visit him in May and his kids get taken on regular outdoors activities and play outside when the rain isn't too heavy. They are allowed TV during certain hours of the day and the rest of the time play games such as chess (6 years and 8 years old and masters!), Monopoly, Guess, Scrabble, Uno ect. His wife and him makes sure the kids are rather kept busy with recreational activities other than electronic devices. I've seen my brother bake mudcakes with his kids, from the porch!

As for me, I work from home and travel all over, with my kids. They love seeing all the different places, and we especially enjoy all the different accents!! England might be more rainy than SA, but I'd rather have a bit of rain than safety issues, work issues, racist issues, strike issues or any other issues that my family are suffering in South Africa at the moment.

Just my opinion

[gushungo]

I could show you parts of London, or other cities in UK, France or Germany, which are nothing like this. I'm not saying that your opinion is wrong, it just shows that you've only experienced the nicer parts of UK.

Originally Posted by Adelita

You do not need anyone to tell you how bad SA is, all you have to do is read up on the latest horror stories from the news, and read between the lines. I've lived in Johannesburg, Pretoria and Limpopo - and the only difference is the varying degrees of racism, crime, filth, and the people's attitudes towards one another.

I love South Africa - I stayed right next to the Kruger National Park. Half of my family stays there, the other half in England, America and Australia. I did not have R4000 to spend on medical aid, was too scared to walk anywhere, couldn't take my kids to a public park since it's too filthy and God alone knows what my kids might step into running around there, and clung to my kids' hands when walking in town because I was scared they'll get snatched! If it was at all possible, I'd have gone to stay in the remotest part of South Africa living off the land, if it would have meant less stress about the other people around me and ensure the safety of my kids.

The very first time I went to London, I went for 2 years. Stayed in London self and didn't like it as it was nothing like what I was used to. So I went to places like Edgeworth, Cornwall and Wales. I absolutely loved it! Even though it rains 4 days out of the week, it wasn't the heavy downpour we'd experience back in SA and we still ventured outdoors to ride horses or take walks. I loved England and still regrets having had to come to South Africa. To me, it was utter peace and freedom - being able to walk when and where I wanted to without having to worry about being robbed/mobbed/raped/assaulted. Then my brother came over and opened his own business and has been here for 5 years now - in the heart of London. I've gone to visit him in May and his kids get taken on regular outdoors activities and play outside when the rain isn't too heavy. They are allowed TV during certain hours of the day and the rest of the time play games such as chess (6 years and 8 years old and masters!), Monopoly, Guess, Scrabble, Uno ect. His wife and him makes sure the kids are rather kept busy with recreational activities other than electronic devices. I've seen my brother bake mudcakes with his kids, from the porch!

As for me, I work from home and travel all over, with my kids. They love seeing all the different places, and we especially enjoy all the different accents!! England might be more rainy than SA, but I'd rather have a bit of rain than safety issues, work issues, racist issues, strike issues or any other issues that my family are suffering in South Africa at the moment.

Just my opinion

[Daxk]

Originally Posted by gushungo

I could show you parts of London, or other cities in UK, France or Germany, which are nothing like this. I'm not saying that your opinion is wrong, it just shows that you've only experienced the nicer parts of UK.

Gushungo, why would you want to stay in those places?
all Cities have no go areas, I would no more walk through Central park at night, or parts of Limerick or Dublin anymore than I would walk through Jhbg Central, or Durban's West street (new name now) after dark......

and I certainly would not live there.

I would (and did) live in Sandton and Durban North, as most of the people who frequent this and other sites would also live in middle to upper income suburbs.
especially in SA.
now kindly show me which normal 1st World Suburb in at least middle Income has the same scary stats and incidents as places we and others who visit this site, will live in, in SA.