Moving to SA- Would love to get your advice.

[Daxk]

Originally Posted by arnaud

Please read White South African - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is known the white population was undercounted. I don't know how many illegal foreigners live in South Africa.
Znyway, let's stick to the topic and let biased posts apart.

Arnaud, even your link states that approx 800,000 whites left.
the actual figure from two Census periods 1996 and 2001 was 847,000 less white bums on seats on census night.

you need to remember that census is an actual count, not an undercount as they had to do in KZN of Black villagers as it was too dangerous to land the helicopters.

white census is the easiest todo, they live in houses and flats and suburbs.
they have postal addresses.
60% of the black population dont.


the difference between emigration from SA and from European Countries
is age related.
Historically the young leave, broaden their horizons and return.
less SA young return.
what is also different is that Irish and UK emigrants tend to be younger and less in the 40 plus age group.
The majority of saffers who leave permanently are in that age group.
thats your senior skilled brain drain.

[arnaud]

Originally Posted by Daxk

Arnaud, even your link states that approx 800,000 whites left.
the actual figure from two Census periods 1996 and 2001 was 847,000 less white bums on seats on census night.

you need to remember that census is an actual count, not an undercount as they had to do in KZN of Black villagers as it was too dangerous to land the helicopters.

white census is the easiest todo, they live in houses and flats and suburbs.
they have postal addresses.
60% of the black population dont.


the difference between emigration from SA and from European Countries
is age related.
Historically the young leave, broaden their horizons and return.
less SA young return.
what is also different is that Irish and UK emigrants tend to be younger and less in the 40 plus age group.
The majority of saffers who leave permanently are in that age group.
thats your senior skilled brain drain.

Please read this :
Were many white south africans not counted during the 2001 south african census? - Yahoo! Answers India

I like facts. The fact is there are less White South Africans leaving the country than in UK or NZ.
Also, approximately 30,000 europeans settle in the country a year (mostly from UK)

[cmdsg]

why the people who left SA behind are always making excuses for their choices?. The world is not just uk and australia, will also countries where life is harder than in SA, stop scaring people, things are difficult for all but life goes on, if people will want to live in SA and you guys do not, what the problem ?
Why you who left SA continue to speak of SA? why?
let people think with their own heads.

I believe that south africa is a country with a great future does not matter whether the ANC or DA is in power, people will choose what is best for all you have to learn to respect that.

[Daxk]

Originally Posted by arnaud

Please read this :
Were many white south africans not counted during the 2001 south african census? - Yahoo! Answers India

I like facts. The fact is there are less White South Africans leaving the country than in UK or NZ.
Also, approximately 30,000 europeans settle in the country a year (mostly from UK)

I like facts too.
real facts.
one of the ones I really really like is the one that says every South African who leaves or enters the Country does so on a SA Passport.
and that passport number is checked against the Computer records on the desk.
This means that at any one moment in time, The Dept of Home Affairs as wel as Customs and immigration can tell you EXACTLY how many South African Citizens are out of the Country, who they are, their ages, how many children they have and when they have left or returned.

That information has never been published.
Its a simple thing.
its classified Top Secret.

If it was published EXACTLY how many South Africans of all colours have left and never returned it would underline that SA is facing some serious skills crises.
As also pointed out by many members of the Govt.

The white Birth rate was at a low of 1.98 /1000 in 98, it rose again to about 3.65/1000 in 2003.
The black birth rate has declined and in KZN , because of AIDS, is so low that hey have a negative population rate
easy, google fertility rates South Africa,wealth of information, it gives you the live birth rates per area and by population group.

now as to 30,000 europeans ettling in Sa??
I agree that more than 30,000 skilled expats come to live in SA every year,
tahts 15 roughly of the white current population.
there is also a reason for that.
The aforementioned skills crises is also affected by Affirmative action appointments..

a helluva lot of Cmpanies who CANNOT get the skilled personnel they want cannt hire white South Africans to fill those posts as 1) they may not be available having left and 2) it puts them over the Racial Quota laid down.

By Hiring expat Engineers and Scientists and relevant skills base, they get by the Quota as firstly, the Expats are on a renewable work permit PR, so are seen as short term and secondly its excused as they are doing "Skills Transfer and mentoring".
They are seen as short term solutions and when sufficient trained South Africans of the required Population group are available, they will be dispensed with.

as to "settling" do a short poll here, how many of the incoming Expats have applied for SA Citizenship and how many of the returning South Africans/ Spouses have given up their "foreign" passports?

I would say none.

the other little trick that happens is, because of the crime, no-one wants to be hired for Gauteng.
so if they cannot skilled expat staff, and have a Cape Town Office, they hire for there, and then "Promote" the individual to the Jhbg office.....
problem solved.
the guys over here, its a promotion, etc....

if there was no skills crises, there would be no room for incoming expats.
the economy has not grown that much in 18 years.

so please find me some facts, not what someone called Rahul got as an answer in India on Yahoo answers.

[concord]

Originally Posted by cmdsg

why the people who left SA behind are always making excuses for their choices?. ... stop scaring people,

Why you who left SA continue to speak of SA? why?
let people think with their own heads.

Jeez, a person who's thinking to move to SA asked for an advise so we have a dispute here. If you check the forum you'll see there're people who represent 2 different opinions so it's not only us - negative, but lots of guys like you - positive. So the person who asked for an advice will read everything and make her/his own conclusions whether to move or not.

[Daxk]

Originally Posted by cmdsg

why the people who left SA behind are always making excuses for their choices?. The world is not just uk and australia, will also countries where life is harder than in SA, stop scaring people, things are difficult for all but life goes on, if people will want to live in SA and you guys do not, what the problem ?
Why you who left SA continue to speak of SA? why?
let people think with their own heads.

I believe that south africa is a country with a great future does not matter whether the ANC or DA is in power, people will choose what is best for all you have to learn to respect that.

get used to it cmdsg, its South African, every one has an opinion and the confidence to voice it.
put any group of South Africans together and they will debate anything and everything.
its our way.
its what makes South Africans so popular as a friendly people.
we are used to arguing and debating.

as to your other comments,
very few South Africans actually care who is in power.
all they want is for things to run smoothly.
and if you think we are
making excuses for leaving, then you haven't really got into the South African Phsyche yet, my friend.
as to your last question, why dont we leave SA alone.

my 80 year old mother lives there.

as does my sister, two brothers and about a hundred nieces and nephews.

Its my Country, not my Home, but my Country.
is it yours?

[cmdsg]

Daxk is not my country, but I love it I'm Portuguese, but it is the country of my wife and my two children.

[MarcelleK]

Originally Posted by lom

Hi all.
I have followed this forum for quite a while now but just signed up.

I am planning a move to WC from the UK with my fiance (he is from CT area originally) and my 8 year old daughter. (want to come over Jun/Jul/Aug)

We actually did talk about moving over last year but after reading every forum discussion and crime stats under the sun I lost my nerves and backed out...

I have however found my courage and am desperate for a life change. I want to experience something new and want my daughter to be able to enjoy a more active outdoor lifestyle. Australia is not an option and my partner has family and social network in SA so it seems like a natural option for us.

Obviously I don't want this on the expense of our lives and I do admit that the risk factor scares me A LOT... I am though hoping that the positives outweigh the negatives?

Bottom line.. I really would appreciate all the advise you can give me.

We have found 2 houses. One in Somerset West (bottom of Helena Heights) and one in Gordons Bay (Mountain side)

I have fallen in love with the house in Somerset West but I am thinking Gordons Bay might be the safer option?

I have read all the negative comments (hard to ignore) but I would like some practical advice which will help me make a decision and hopefully overcome my worries.
I do appreciate it
Lx

Hi hun

We are moving in October from London (I am from Cape Town) and my husband from NZ. This is completely unrelated to your questions, but just want to know what visa you are entering (I assume you are British??). We are a bit stuck on my husband's visa and not sure which one to apply for and getting so many mixed messages so noticed your post and wondered what you are doing......

Please let me know and good luck with your choices. I absolutely love Gordon's Bay, but can't comment on where you want to live as have been in UK for 9 years and am from the Southern Suburbs in Cape Town and returning there.

So exciting!!!!

Mx

[Daxk]

Originally Posted by cmdsg

Daxk is not my country, but I love it I'm Portuguese, but it is the country of my wife and my two children.

Nao faz Mal, Pa! it IS my Country and I do love it

[Charles III]

Originally Posted by lom

Hi all.
I have followed this forum for quite a while now but just signed up.

I am planning a move to WC from the UK with my fiance (he is from CT area originally) and my 8 year old daughter. (want to come over Jun/Jul/Aug)

We actually did talk about moving over last year but after reading every forum discussion and crime stats under the sun I lost my nerves and backed out...

I have however found my courage and am desperate for a life change. I want to experience something new and want my daughter to be able to enjoy a more active outdoor lifestyle. Australia is not an option and my partner has family and social network in SA so it seems like a natural option for us.

Obviously I don't want this on the expense of our lives and I do admit that the risk factor scares me A LOT... I am though hoping that the positives outweigh the negatives?

Bottom line.. I really would appreciate all the advise you can give me.

We have found 2 houses. One in Somerset West (bottom of Helena Heights) and one in Gordons Bay (Mountain side)

I have fallen in love with the house in Somerset West but I am thinking Gordons Bay might be the safer option?

I have read all the negative comments (hard to ignore) but I would like some practical advice which will help me make a decision and hopefully overcome my worries.
I do appreciate it
Lx

Hello Lom,

Don't worry about all the media scare mongering. If you want an accurate report on what it's like living in SA, ask people who actually live there - like the people on this forum, or friends or family living in SA if you have them.

I moved back to SA a year ago, and notice that the scare mongering that was happening all over the media (News24, even Mail & Guardian) just isn't a truthful reflection on the reality of privileged people in the country. People like yourself who are obviously quite well off, are not going to be living in a township or squatter camp where a lot of the crimes occur. Not to say criminal activity is exclusively limited to those areas, but it seems to be more increasingly centered in those areas. Why? I think a big part of the drop in crime in middle class and upper class areas like Somerset West, Gordons Bay, Sandton, Strand, Kloof, Centurion - wherever, is Sector Policing. Yes, in the last few years, sector policing and neighbourhood watch's have become very popular and very effective throughout the country. Indeed, areas that have seen their implementation have experienced huge declines in crime, so much so, that the law enforcement and neighbourhood watch patrol captains have become "bored". (I have that info first hand).

Long story short, much of the UK's population is trying to get out of that place, so I don't blame you. Many of these "Saffers" as they like to call themselves, have been living in the UK and making relatively good money for the past decade or so, but now with the financial downturn, it makes more sense to return back to SA. Some have accomplished the goal of getting a UK passport, and can leave again whenever they want. Anyway, they're probably not of much concern to you, it sounds like you have a job lined up, or perhaps you are just independently wealthy.

Long story short, don't worry. You'll see that these fears that have been planted in your mind will soon diminish when you get here and nothing happens. Like I said, I've been in SA a year, and no issues - and I live in Gauteng. From what I understand, the Western Cape is heaven on earth. Trees grow money, everyone lives in a house of gold, girls wear bikinis all day long and are all supermodels, everyone drives a luxury car on uncongested, untolled highways, and last but not least - government works. What's not to like?

Enjoy getting the hell out of the UK and prepare for wonderful ride here in SA.