One way flights

[lorgnette]

Flying to NZ, the travel agent chased replies from embassies to confirm we can get a o/w to Auckland, break without ticket to to Melbourne and ow from Melbourne out.
At midnight checkin- we were held back by officer who clarified with supervisor and verified all our answers before we received boarding passes.
At Auckland Airport, our yawning sincere faces convinced Immigration we were undecided when we would complete our NZ islands exploration before departure to Australia.


Yes, obviously they check .....

[anneteoh]

Originally Posted by foxyzerman

a general question please, btw: has anyone ever been asked to provide proof of return, or return ticket at arrival in any country you visited?
if so, please name it, it would ve useful for all of us to know.

thank you all.

Hi, I agree it's useful for people to know about any country's unsocial travel restrictions behaviour; so here's my snippet.

I went to SG IN 2011 on a one way ticket for the same reason as the OP's and ticked the box for a 90 days' stay. There was no problem at all; can't remember if the mature imm. officer asked where I'd be staying even! Moreover, I even landed in a good job at a top school and could have obtained the PR I didn't take up before this time; except that I applied for it very late, just before I turned down renewing my employment contract too.

Before that though, I was taken to JB a couple of times for a day's social visits by my nephew and then aunt. On my second return trip, the young Sg girl demanded to know if I had a return ticket and the purpose of my return to SG - I was shocked and told her that was my private business; but my relatives, simply smiled, told her I was visiting and quickly drove me in.

I would have liked to question her intrusion into my privacy; perhaps as she might have wanted to question my right to get into her country. The point was, I believed I had right of entry as a traveller and that was all to it. Could she have refused me entry there and then?
Would that be a travesty of one's rights to travel in and out of any country, considering that one hasn't overstayed or broken any laws?

I'm expecting to visit SG again , this time , with a return ticket, bought in SG when I left.
I'd never considered that to be a problem till now, after reading this thread. Now I'm wondering if I'd be allowed to enter without a return ticket! That would have ben an impossibility as I could only get a return ticket from outside Sg.

If only governments the world over can understand that life's seeped in ironies!!! So let there be peace on earth.

[ecureilx]

Originally Posted by anneteoh

Before that though, I was taken to JB a couple of times for a day's social visits by my nephew and then aunt. On my second return trip, the young Sg girl demanded to know if I had a return ticket and the purpose of my return to SG - I was shocked and told her that was my private business; but my relatives, simply smiled, told her I was visiting and quickly drove me in.

I would have liked to question her intrusion into my privacy; perhaps as she might have wanted to question my right to get into her country. The point was, I believed I had right of entry as a traveller and that was all to it. Could she have refused me entry there and then?
Would that be a travesty of one's rights to travel in and out of any country, considering that one hasn't overstayed or broken any laws?

Well, if you are British, you would not say such harsh words, if you ever bothered to listen to the types of questions asked by British Immigration officers, when they interview Asians - or pretty much non-Caucasians ..

Questions have ranged from "so you are here visiting your boyfriend, which bar did you meet... " and "when did you meet" followed by a call to the BF to ask and confirm the details ..

Don't get me started on Australian Immigration .. or US immigration ..

If you are shocked at such questions, me, in my humble words, says .. well, you got off easy ..

You should have demanded she explain the need for such a question .. and see what would have transpired .. on top of it .. when you say you been to Malaysia a couple of times, in local terms, that is known as "Visa Runs" and a lot of people do it for legit and illegitimate purposes ..

As for what laws you have broken or not .. well, I can safely say, Singapore is at the Crossroads in Asia, and, for a start, human trafficking is Immigration's primary concern .. if not into Singapore, it is Via Singapore .. I am not going to get into the details .. so the immigration, as per law, has the right to ask what you are doing here .. as one girl was asked the same question, and she went "I am here to study the culture of Singapore .. " pat came the reply "you been to Singapore for more than 60 days, there is not much you can study about the culture .. your entry is refused .. " - of course, the ICA officer could ask whether is she part timing, or doing other stuff - which is what they cannot ask or accuse - and they have to make a decision ..

The law says the immigration has every right to vet you - especially in Singapore, considering that a fair amount of Foreigners do engage in activities not allowed under the law, when you are on a visit visa - including working, running businesses, consulting .. oh, I can easily say Westerners are NOT exempt from such activities ..

I know a handful of guys, who cannot be bothered to get proper work pass, to run their businesses here, and instead, base themselves in KL and fly down and exit to extend the visa - and it is not like ICA doesn't profile them ..

Sorry if I am long winded, but it amuses me, when Europeans get 'shocked' or 'amazed' and 'annoyed' or 'irritated' .. when Immigration asks questions .. try taking an Asian to Europe or US, and see .. you will be humbled ..

Oh, there is a TV program - on Australian border Police .. take a sneak peek, and see how visitors get treated ..

Border Security - Watch full episodes - PLUS7 - Yahoo!7

PS: the law says you must show proof of return - so you can decipher it as any way you want - all the way to 'staring down the young immigration girls who don't know how to respect people .. ' ..

No offense ..

[sgporc]

Originally Posted by anneteoh

The point was, I believed I had right of entry as a traveller and that was all to it. Could she have refused me entry there and then?

There's no such thing as a "right of entry" for travelers. Instead, it is the admitting country that has the right to refuse entry however it deems suitable. This is true anywhere in the world. You have full rights to not answer the question. Then it is the right of the country to decide whether or not to let you in based on your non-answer...

[anneteoh]

Originally Posted by sgporc

There's no such thing as a "right of entry" for travelers. Instead, it is the admitting country that has the right to refuse entry however it deems suitable. This is true anywhere in the world. You have full rights to not answer the question. Then it is the right of the country to decide whether or not to let you in based on your non-answer...

Thanks. I'm glad to have browsed this forum. I'd never seen any significance in a o/w or return tickets before; now I'm wondering what'll happen when I fly to Sg with my return ticket to Sg. ( but without an exit ticket ).
What'll happen if they prevent one from entering on arrival? Will they deport us back or leave us marooned at Changi airport? Has anyone been stranded after being refused entry into a country without a return ticket? What if one has a bank account in that country, left behind previously, a place to stay and family to sponsor?

[anneteoh]

Originally Posted by ecureilx

Well, if you are British, you would not say such harsh words, if you ever bothered to listen to the types of questions asked by British Immigration officers, when they interview Asians - or pretty much non-Caucasians ..

Questions have ranged from "so you are here visiting your boyfriend, which bar did you meet... " and "when did you meet" followed by a call to the BF to ask and confirm the details ..

Don't get me started on Australian Immigration .. or US immigration ..

If you are shocked at such questions, me, in my humble words, says .. well, you got off easy ..

You should have demanded she explain the need for such a question .. and see what would have transpired .. on top of it .. when you say you been to Malaysia a couple of times, in local terms, that is known as "Visa Runs" and a lot of people do it for legit and illegitimate purposes ..

As for what laws you have broken or not .. well, I can safely say, Singapore is at the Crossroads in Asia, and, for a start, human trafficking is Immigration's primary concern .. if not into Singapore, it is Via Singapore .. I am not going to get into the details .. so the immigration, as per law, has the right to ask what you are doing here .. as one girl was asked the same question, and she went "I am here to study the culture of Singapore .. " pat came the reply "you been to Singapore for more than 60 days, there is not much you can study about the culture .. your entry is refused .. " - of course, the ICA officer could ask whether is she part timing, or doing other stuff - which is what they cannot ask or accuse - and they have to make a decision ..

The law says the immigration has every right to vet you - especially in Singapore, considering that a fair amount of Foreigners do engage in activities not allowed under the law, when you are on a visit visa - including working, running businesses, consulting .. oh, I can easily say Westerners are NOT exempt from such activities ..

I know a handful of guys, who cannot be bothered to get proper work pass, to run their businesses here, and instead, base themselves in KL and fly down and exit to extend the visa - and it is not like ICA doesn't profile them ..

Sorry if I am long winded, but it amuses me, when Europeans get 'shocked' or 'amazed' and 'annoyed' or 'irritated' .. when Immigration asks questions .. try taking an Asian to Europe or US, and see .. you will be humbled ..

Oh, there is a TV program - on Australian border Police .. take a sneak peek, and see how visitors get treated ..

Border Security - Watch full episodes - PLUS7 - Yahoo!7

PS: the law says you must show proof of return - so you can decipher it as any way you want - all the way to 'staring down the young immigration girls who don't know how to respect people .. ' ..

No offense ..

I can see where you're coming from; no offence but a good reminder though I have been simply sailing through the borders in Europe ( ticketless ), Australia ( return airfare ), SG
( O/W air ticket).It was some time since I went to the US but it was cool there too. So I was shocked when the young ICA at the JB causeway asked what I was going to do on my return to SG ( same day visit too ) and I told her so. I didn't think that was funny for I was with my family and surely she didn't think I was going to rob the bank and colonise Sg!

But judging from the gist of what I've read through this thread, things have changed , perhaps drastically so.

We normally sail through between France and the Uk too, but once, in 2009, the customs guy ( the same guy who sent us off very nicely to Calais on a 5 day trip ) asked where we were coming from on our return. It occurred to me it was so obvious we'd returned from France that I decided to be cheeky and said, " from China." The old guy was so annoyed, he marched us into the checking area and we had to wait for a long time while they slowly looked into our shopping bags and the car boot.

On a more serious note regarding visitor's visa and employment- I don't think there's any prohibition on anyone seeking work while on a visitor's visa in Sg as long as their skills/qualifications are needed by an Sg firm or institution and they haven't overstayed the date stamped on the passport when they get the work pass from MOM. Once you have the post after the interview, the employer applies the WP for you and MOM issues it; all legit.

[ecureilx]

I hope I didn't put you off with my long essays ..

Originally Posted by anneteoh

... I didn't think that was funny for I was with my family and surely she didn't think I was going to rob the bank and colonise Sg!

Truth be told, you will not believe me that scores of Westerners are so desperate to settling down in Safe Singapore, despite all the loud no-nos from Westerners .. so much so, I had one colleague face an European, not gonna mention the country, literally break down and cry when told he was not short listed for the job I personally know a couple of guys, and one girl, who resorted to marrying locals - simply because they dreaded no future back home, if they had to head back home.

But judging from the gist of what I've read through this thread, things have changed , perhaps drastically so.

Things were like that, atleast 20 years ago .. and well, it was made tighter all over the world .. not just in Singapore .. Post 9-11, holding an Asian passport try to get a tourist visa without any drama to US or Europe ?

It is just that now things are more obvious ..

On a more serious note regarding visitor's visa and employment- I don't think there's any prohibition on anyone seeking work while on a visitor's visa in Sg as long as their skills/qualifications are needed by an Sg firm or institution and they haven't overstayed the date stamped on the passport when they get the work pass from MOM. Once you have the post after the interview, the employer applies the WP for you and MOM issues it; all legit.

Seeking work - is not an issue.

The issue is a lot of people never apply for EP, especially westerners, since they can ask upto 90 days and get it, and do a 'visa run' to Batam or JB .. while working / running their businesses, offshore or otherwise.

The law says if you work out of Singapore, you must have an EP, which a lot of guys running representative offices don't bother to do legally .. and well, since 2002, the number of companies doing so has increased, seeing the attraction of operating out of Singapore.

MOM/ICA knows, and do random checks and refuse entry to those with 'patterns' or give limited visas, like 7 days or 14 days, instead of the obligatory 30 or 90 days.

Oh, btw, I know a Scottish gent, who would never go back to Scotland - he had been struck down with a stroke and the doctors had

[ecureilx]

Originally Posted by sgporc

There's no such thing as a "right of entry" for travelers. Instead, it is the admitting country that has the right to refuse entry however it deems suitable. This is true anywhere in the world. You have full rights to not answer the question. Then it is the right of the country to decide whether or not to let you in based on your non-answer...

Exactly - even with a Visa in hand, for those countries who need to have visa pre-approved, the Immigration officers can decide not to admit the person.

When you arrive in a country on a tourist visa, consider yourself a 'visitor' and would you want dodgy/dubious/arrogant/suspicious/snobby/self righteous visitors to your house ?? No offense ..

Now, the idea of seeking a legal recourse to demand entry works only into those countries where you have residency of some sort .. try getting a blacklisted person removed off the list, in Singapore and Malaysia - good luck !!!! And people do get blacklisted for reasons like criminal offenses - even in another country (remember Russel Brand got refused entry to Japan for his 'possession' charges in US .. ) and simply being unemployed - for example- is a cause for concern for tourists as it sets alarm bells ringing ..

Immigration staff all over the world have a tough job - they can sometimes see something not right, but they cannot prove it- so they can only refuse or allow the person and pray it was right .. like in Singapore, if abnormal travel patterns are not questioned, the officer will have to do his / her explanation ... as I understand .. if the person is caught in some anti-vice or illegal employment raid ..

[anneteoh]

hi Ecureilx
Thanks for all your detailed responses. This thread's making me less complacent for sure and I'm glad to have come in. I hope you're not getting obsessed with immigration problems these days. if you are, it's time to chill out in Malaysia or Batam.
BTW, how do people get the likes and not likes? I seem to get 1 like each time though I have no idea how that actually work.

[ecureilx]

Originally Posted by anneteoh

hi Ecureilx
Thanks for all your detailed responses. This thread's making me less complacent for sure and I'm glad to have come in. I hope you're not getting obsessed with immigration problems these days. if you are, it's time to chill out in Malaysia or Batam.

Men heading to Batam has a different connotation here in Singapore

Well, yah, Malaysia and Genting does relax ..

For like - click the 'thanks' icon above the post.