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Moving to South Africa: Good or bad? Why we will never agree


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Old 20th March 2012, 06:44 PM
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Default Moving to South Africa: Good or bad? Why we will never agree

Since I have been a member of this forum, most heated debates were between those who have left South Africa (or wanting to) and those who made it their new home, and somewhere in between those who cannot emigrate and have no other option than to stay in denial and hope for the best.

In another thread I made the following statement: "But remember that however much you may research and deep into the issue (whether it is a good or bad idea to immigrate to South Africa), if you haven't lived here for 15 plus years you wouldn't understand the rapid decay in all spheres of life and society over and above the 'normal world wide deterioration' which will reduce South Africa to another Zimbabwean banana republic in years to come."

I recently had to be in Johannesburg and decided that due to my meetings being on my birthday, I would fly my wife and kids over from Cape Town. We had a wonderful weekend at the Melrose Arch Hotel, a typical place where higher income group people would stay and play.

On our way from the airport I decided to show my wife and kids the area where I bought my second property at the age of 19, in Hillbrow, Johannesburg some 25 years ago. We felt extremely unsafe. The roads were bad with masses of rubbish littered all over the place. The area is over populated and you could see and smell the poverty all around you. At some places sewage water was flowing down the street, just 20 minutes away from Melrose Arch and Sandton. I was wondering how long it would take before the masses spill over to Melrose Arch in Johannesburg, or from Bellville in Cape Town to Durbanville, only a few miles away.

The moral of the story is that those who immigrate to South Africa will probably LOVE staying at Melrose Arch, but will be totally uninformed about the history, or existence or danger of places like Hillbrow, Berea and Sunnyside, Arcadia etc in Pretoria, Bellville and Parow in Cape Town and other provinces which form part and parcel of our frame of reference when we debate issues or draw people's attention to the rapid decay this country is falling into. How do you stop the infiltration of the masses? Do what we have been doing for the last 30 years: Pack up, build new malls and houses and move 30 miles away.

The expat to South Africa will not have the financial, sentimental and emotional attachment to historical issues and will debate from their limited frame of mind of what they understand or currently experience South Africa to be like. They live in 10% or less of South Africa and when debating or dealing with issues don't bring the rest of the 90% into the equation, because they are totally oblivious to it.

Today I have real estate in South Africa and the US. I have properties in affluent areas, and I can see that though at a much slower pace, the same scenario is repeating itself in my area (Cape Town). It starts with flats being infiltrated by sketchy tenants etc etc and before long the "broken window" principle kicks in and the area goes down the drain.

I can hear some saying "well there are inner cities in the UK & USA (like downtown Los Angeles) that looks the same. It is the imbalance in population numbers that is frightening.

I will never forget how proud I was when I bought my property as a young lad in Hillbrow. A few years later, I had to abandon it for obvious reasons - I couldn't even sell it. I have attached a clip taken in 2010 on what the area looked like then, and believe me, it is getting worse.
The Death of Johannesburg - YouTube


Last edited by vegasboy; 20th March 2012 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 20th March 2012, 07:11 PM
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Don't forget to read the comments below the youtube clip after watching it.

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Old 21st March 2012, 12:16 PM
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Talking about the 'broken window principle': "A recent environmental study conducted by the Universities of Yale and Columbia has revealed that South Africa’s environment has deteriorated significantly over the past 20 years, ranking amongst the lowest in the study’s Environmental Performance Index, which uses 22 indicators to measure which countries conserve their natural environment the best. While South Africa ranked 128th on the list, close to Iraq (which came in last at 132)....." Wild Law Update: SA Ranked Amongst Lowest in Environmental Performance Index | Siber Ink


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Old 26th March 2012, 08:25 AM
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Everyone knows Hillbrow is a hole. But for every Hillbrow 30 nice new suburbs have been rejuvenated or built. How did you miss noticing that ? Trying to use Hillbrow as the whole picture of South Africa is bizarre.

Quote:
, if you haven't lived here for 15 plus years you wouldn't understand the rapid decay in all spheres of life and society
In what way has there been rapid decay ? The economy is better than it was. Many more people have decent housing and access to water and electricity. People earn far more inflation related than they once did. The road and infrastructure are constantly being repaired and upgraded. Violent crime is down 50% since 1994 according to the statisticians from all sides. This is why I think people won't agree with you. On one side their is the perceptions amongst many whites that under a black government everything will decay and hence they have to leave, but in reality that just hasn't happened. Calm rational people who don't have racial hang ups look around them without freaking out and can see improvements everywhere. There's nothing to say we will be another Zimbabwe. If there is then please point it out without resorting to meaningless words like "corruption" because those things are a part of life and some of the world most successful countries are far more corrupt than us. We're rank amateurs when it comes to that.

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Old 26th March 2012, 08:45 AM
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Speaking of Zim, when last have you been there ? I was there recently for a visit again and I can assure you it's hardly the pit everyone here likes to pretend it is anymore. The shelves are full again and life and commerce has pretty much returned to normal(although things are mildly more expensive than South Africa). The economy is growing quite nicely too at the moment just like it is in Zambia, Angola, Mozambique, botswana, Ghana etc etc. Sometimes people's perception of Africa is so stuck in the live aid 80's universe of pot bellied starving babies surrounded by flies picking grains out of mud. The reality is sub Saharan Africa is the fastest growing economic hub in the world, so it's hard to understand why people would be so fatalistic about it rather than optimistic.

If there's one thing you have heard a million times in your life in South Africa during Apartheid it was "If we let blacks run the country we will be just like the rest of Africa "IE: a "banana" republic. This belies much of the sentiment that drove away some white South Africans, I don't think any honest man could deny that.

But given that so many African countries are now getting their houses in order economically, socially and politically aren't we due a shift in this perception and failed prediction ?


Last edited by kingofthecastle; 26th March 2012 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 26th March 2012, 08:51 AM
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The British media, when they discuss SA, always paint a grim picture of unrest, an unbalance of wealth, poverty and of course corruption. So thats what anyone in the UK who watches the news and doesnt know any better thinks its like!!

Jo xxx

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Old 26th March 2012, 08:59 AM
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The British media, when they discuss SA, always paint a grim picture of unrest, an unbalance of wealth, poverty and of course corruption. So thats what anyone in the UK who watches the news and doesnt know any better thinks its like!!

Jo xxx
There certainly is political unrest and an imbalance of wealth. But surely given Apartheid's legacy these teething pains are to be expected. Anyway we all know the negative perceptive of Africa that the western media sells the viewers. I don't blame people of not knowing any better. But in reality +20k brits a year choose to come live here so the media surely isn't giving the full, balanced picture.

Regarding poverty and corruption I don't think South Africa is near the top 100 countries in those areas and certainly it doesn't stand out as anything special in those departments. It does have the 17th biggest economy in the world despite having a moderately sized population. You want poverty and corruption go to South East Asia or South America.


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Old 26th March 2012, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofthecastle View Post
There certainly is political unrest and an imbalance of wealth. But surely given Apartheid's legacy these teething pains are to be expected. Anyway we all know the negative perceptive of Africa that the western media sells the viewers. I don't blame people of not knowing any better. But in reality +20k brits a year choose to come live here so the media surely isn't giving the full, balanced picture.

Regardless - The British media say its bad, so thats what the majority of Brits hear and dont bother to argue!

Jo xxx

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Old 26th March 2012, 09:05 AM
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Regardless - The British media say its bad, so thats what the majority of Brits hear and dont bother to argue!

Jo xxx
Where did I argue ? Read my post again. I fully acknowledged the percepetion of Africa sold by western media is distorted to make it seem worse than it is.

Why the sudden bout of aggression and unpleasantries ?

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Old 26th March 2012, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofthecastle View Post
Where did I argue ? Read my post again. I fully acknowledged the percepetion of Africa sold by western media is distorted to make it seem worse than it is.

Why the sudden bout of aggression and unpleasantries ?
I didnt mean that YOU shouldnt bother to argue. I meant that the British people cant be bothered to argue or question the media

Jo xxx

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