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Treatment of Helpers

8K views 49 replies 20 participants last post by  M.C.A. 
#1 · (Edited)
I live in a large compound that has been subdivided into six walled sub-compounds. My wife and I occupy one of the sub-compounds, while three other sub-compounds are occupied by my in-laws. My wife and I don't have a maid or helper, but each of my in-laws have at least a female maid, and one or two helper boys.

One of my in-laws is getting on in her years, and I suspect that she is starting to get a little senile. She is constantly complaining about financial problems, and I noticed that recently she cut back on the amount and type of food she is feeding her male helpers. In addition, she makes them sleep on cots next to her car, in case anyone tries to steal her gasoline at night. I talked to the old lady's husband, he agreed that the treatment was inhumane, but he simply said, "What can I do, that is her sickness."

My wife says that the type of rice she is feeding them is something that it normally not used for human consumption (has a lot of dirt and rock) and she also gives them salted fish once a day. Both of these boys have lost a lot of weight, and right now one of them is very sick. If I had to guess, I'd say that their both getting around 1,000 - 1,500 calories a day, and what they are eating probably doesn't contain much in the way of vitamins and minerals. On top of that, she works these two boys ragged like a pair of Chinese *******.

(Apparently part of the problem may stem from the fact that the parents of these two boys borrowed money from my in-laws, and failed to pay it back. Thus the boys were sent to work of the debt.)

I know that this may sound like a naive question, but is there any government agency here that looks out for the welfare of domestic servants? My wife and I have been giving them extra food, but we can't really afford to feed other people's workers, especially when we decided that hiring our own maid is money not well spent. I
 
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#2 ·
I live in a large compound that has been subdivided into six walled sub-compounds. My wife and I occupy one of the sub-compounds, while three other sub-compounds are occupied by my in-laws. My wife and I don't have a maid or helper, but each of my in-laws have at least a female maid, and one or two helper boys.

One of my in-laws is getting on in her years, and I suspect that she is starting to get a little senile. She is constantly complaining about financial problems, and I noticed that recently she cut back on the amount and type of food she is feeding her male helpers. In addition, she makes them sleep on cots next to her car, in case anyone tries to steal her gasoline at night. I talked to the old lady's husband, he agreed that the treatment was inhumane, but he simply said, "What can I do, that is her sickness."

My wife says that the type of rice she is feeding them is something that it normally not used for human consumption (has a lot of dirt and rock) and she also gives them salted fish once a day. Both of these boys have lost a lot of weight, and right now one of them is very sick. If I had to guess, I'd say that their both getting around 1,000 - 1,500 calories a day, and what they are eating probably doesn't contain much in the way of vitamins and minerals. On top of that, she works these two boys ragged like a pair of Chinese *******.

(Apparently part of the problem may stem from the fact that the parents of these two boys borrowed money from my in-laws, and failed to pay it back. Thus the boys were sent to work of the debt.)

I know that this may sound like a naive question, but is there any government agency here that looks out for the welfare of domestic servants? My wife and I have been giving them extra food, but we can't really afford to feed other people's workers, especially when we decided that hiring our own maid is money not well spent. I
Doubtful
 
#5 ·
Your reply does seem harsh and uncaring but it is realistic. When I moved to the Philippines I was sadden by so many living in horrible condition and tried to help. I just could not walk away and turn my back on those in need. I got a text from a man I help that had am infected leg. It would have gotten serious if he did not get medical care. I paid a 15,000 hospital bill. He text me that his brother’s wife sister was in the hospital and could I help. I have changed now. Yes I still help but not as much and in other ways. There is a woman that sleeps in the street with her young child. Whenever I see that lady sleeping I stick some money in her bag. Helping those boys may cause family strain, I would not do it.
 
#6 ·
Phil_Expat...a very valiant effort to help those around you and I am the same way! I just can't seem to walk away when I know I have the means to help someone, HOWEVER; with that being said, you might want to change the way you are helping the lady sleeping on the street.

Simply sticking some money into her bag may not be helping her at all. Many times, I have seen street urchins going through other peoples personal belongings while they are asleep and stealing anything of value.

They have nothing to lose and no deterrents if they get caught stealing form another street person.

I would hate to think that you are trying to help this lady with a little money and then someone else is stealing it from her bag after you have left the area. She may not actually be getting your assistance in the end.

I hope this is not the case for you and thank you for caring about others and doing what you can! Kudo's to you my friend...
 
#8 ·
In the provinces, the typical going rate for an adult helper is 2,500 pesos a month, 3,000 if they are good workers. For underage children it is less, it is important that they do get free meals, especially the underage boys. We had a helper, a teenage girl, who worked for my wife and she did a good job cleaning and maintaining our laundry, however, my wife felt that she did some five finger shopping in our house. The problem that I had was because the fact that my wife has a sari sari store, the helper's mother would get grocery items and wanted to pay later for it, this was my beef. I don't like giving credit, especially when the person has not paid the amount owed to my wife. My policy is no money, no honey, no pay, no play. I still try to convince my wife that the people who do business with us are not friends. Friends are friends, family is family, but in business you have no friends or family.
 
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#9 ·
Worker



The meals (standard meal actually)and work load sound about right for most that work in my area... You also don't want these guys living inside the house, things will disappear and get re-sold.

One armed neighbor got similar treatment, he looks innocent and is a very hard worker he also can steal with the best of them, he has a cigarette and drinking habit, we fed him very well. We helped the one armed guy in the aftermath of the Typhoon, we needed help with the destruction and clean up, he did a great job but now were missing some high dollar steel cooking pots...they didn't blow away.

These two men can leave anytime they want but it sounds like their okay with the arrangement for now, it's better than the alternative and that's back home and less food, harder work for sure. These guys could be hired from someone else though, that happens too! If they're truly hard workers with skills, they can find jobs, house work wouldn't be considered a skill worth hiring though, not sure what they're doing for the elderly lady.

The elderly lady's troubling behavior would be considered normal and not questioned in the area I live in. In-laws treat workers and family members the same way as well as neighbors, they're really tight with cash, curipots, they complain they don't have money, they'll go through extremes to prove that to you but they do, when they go out to eat at restaurant its a secret, I was shocked to learn wifes sister has a couple restaurants on her weekly schedule, she has two daughters out of college and a business but would finish eating the knuckles on the chicken bones, take home leftovers that had been sitting for hours.
 
#15 ·
Helping people



One of the things that gave me a start when I first came to the Philippines 7 years ago was the number of kids running around begging for pesos. If one comes up to you and begs for pesos, and you give, you will have 20 of them begging for pesos. The kicker with this is that if an observant police officer sees what you are doing, he will come and arrest you and put you in jail. This because, where you have or not have knowledge of Philippine law, it is illegal to panhandle [beg for money]. The best thing to do is just not make eye contact.
 
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#11 ·
Slightly off topic but we have a tract of sugar cane on ****** and at harvest time hire workers. From the start we were told by family to pay the local rate of about 100-120 pesos a day as if you over pay you will upset all the other local growers. Domestic helpers are in a simi;ar position, they love to work for foriegners as they pay too much but it upsets the apple cart with the locals.
 
#16 ·
Helper



We have a distant in-law that helps us frequently but he doesn't live with us, he fixed our roof and several other things, most won't hire him because he needs to leave frequently to feed his kids, for some odd reason his wife won't do the cooking or dishes, it makes other employers angry when he comes and goes....but the work he completes is double or triple the average of other skilled workers, he can do everything, electricity, masonry, carpenter, misc...

When he can't find jobs and we have nothing for him to do we'll give him rice and sardines or what ever cooked meal we have for the day, he's invited to all parties, if we have extra food during lunch time we give that to him so he can feed his family and get back to work faster.

We can't afford to keep any live in or full time helpers, we used to do all that stuff years ago, maids, ya-ya, oh boy what a mistake-a-thon, many lessons learned :frusty:.
 
#13 ·
I've gotten somewhat accustomed to seeing destitute people in the street, without shedding too many tears (although I have been none to throw handfuls of coins in certain areas as I drive by - been doing it for years), the case involving the two helper boys is different, because they live right here in our compound with us.

I'm not sure, but I heard that they are getting 1,700 Php a month, but it appears that their pay is being withheld to repay a family debt. (Jeez, this wouldn't even be legal in most countries) I agree, the old lady and her husband aren't thinking straight, and I've told them they should be nicer to these two boys, or they could get hungry enough to rob them some night. They seem like decent enough boys, and they don't seem to have any vices, but if you push someone far enough....If you treated someone like that in the west, you'd be thrown in prison. She doesn't even let them wash their clothes at her house, and they are very dirty most of the time.

I think what I'll do is invite them over to my area once in a while, give them some odd jobs, fill them up with food, and give them a few hundred pesos now and then . I can't save everyone in this town, but these boys are being exploited, that's not right, and who knows, maybe in the future they will remember that I was the one fed them, and that may come in handy some day.
 
#14 ·
Sounds like a Great plan Maxx. If you help them through work and pay, they'll be grateful for a lifetime, And might save them from acting on the tyrant they work for now. Human exploitation like that is unforgivable and it amazes me how badly Filipinos can treat each other....should be Better than rest of third world in that regard, but unfortunately is not.
 
#21 ·
Most of us foreigners have NEVER seen such wide spread poverty like here in the Philippines. It really is a culture shock, but after a while, we start to understand and accept this culture, though hopefully not to grow callous to the hunger and pain.
When I announced to my family and friends that I was moving to the Philippines, most were supporting, but a few said, "you can't save the world".
After some successes and some failures at establishing some feeding programs, I agree that we cannot save the world, but we can "make better" the small world around us. Local puroks, barangays are the perfect place to start, for those with the means and heart.
 
#25 ·
It has taken me awhile to really (sort of) understand and accept how little some earn here.

I offered to pay our maid more.... but then it was explained that it would upset other's in area. The subsequent hiring would require more and more.

My Sister-in-law explained....everyone has the opportunity to work hard and study to better their position. It is those who are too lazy or stupid to care that are being hired that way.

Coming from USA, I'm still of the mindset to help those in need... but I guess I see her point.

still...."sort of" ..it's a learning process.
 
#26 ·
Yesterday my sister-in-law ordered the two helper boys to clean up the unoccupied are of the main compound. We keep some goats over there to keep the brush from getting too high, and since the two helpers don't have any shoes, my wife loaned them each a pair of rubber rain boots to keep their feet clean. After they put on the boots, the boys took turns filling them up with water from our house. I asked my wife why they were putting water into the boots that while they were wearing them. My wife said that the boys put water into their boots because they wanted to stay cool, and because they thought that the boots were like a swimming pool. Wow, just when you thought you've heard everything. Well, I've been watching them work, and I think that the water in their boots is slowing them down by about 50% but they seem to be happy, so I won't say anything.
 
#27 ·
Hmmm....so funny. I probably wouldn't say anything either. Its just another way of thinking that we are exposed to......many times doesn't make much sense.
I'm not sure how their reasoning functions...and probably never will....hehehee.
It amazes me how many workers it takes to transfer dirt/soil from 1 place to another. NO 1 person will take the dirt ALL the way. 1 will dig, 1 wants to put in bags, 1 will put in wheelbarrow, or 2 will share carrying 1 bag. And it still takes forever.
Another thing they do when transferring dirt/soil. They will shovel and pile it up maybe 1 meter away, then they will shovel it another meter, then another. So it takes moving the dirt 3 times before its 10 feet away. Such a waste of time and energy.
Digging a hole.............1 guy loosens dirt with a barra, other guy watches. Then the other guy will scoop loose dirt with shovel, while 1st guy watches. I tried to shown them how a shovel works to dig and scoop in 1 motion, but it seems to fall on deaf ears.
Relating to the topic, I wanted to pay these laborers extra for their harder than necessary work, but my wife said no........so the wife wins.
 
#28 ·
I've been on this forum sinse 2010 I think and these stories and true happenings just get better and better. Keep going guys -- this is good stuff.:D:D:D..
 
#29 ·
This is going to be my biggest challenge after I am residing in the Philippines. I love good quality work and work ethics, quality materials, etc. and I am willing to pay extra for it and if someone typically does an outstanding job for me, above and beyond what is typically expected of them, I don't mind giving them a generous tip or bonus after the work has been completed.

HOWEVER...I do understand fully about the delicate local economic balance of things in the Philippines and I DO NOT want to upset the apple cart so to speak...

So I will try very hard to keep this in check and try not to aggravate my neighbors and the area locals by overpaying any hired workers, should I have any from time to time.

Any suggestions from others who have struggled with this same issue will be greatly appreciated. Let me know how you got quality help and/or quality materials or services without openly overpaying according to the local economic standards.
 
#33 ·
Just something to think about...

Since 'you' look at everything from a western view and your logic and deductive reasoning and problem solving skills (should) be light years ahead of the average Filipino. It is easy to end up frustrated in your efforts to 'help and improve' things. This is where most Westerners get angry and go home due to their views of the 'stupid' way things are done in the Philippines.

You might hire a Filipino worker to build a cement wall that you could build in 3 hours and it took him 3 days to do it. What the Westerner sees is a long drawn out process to build a simple wall that should take 3 hours. What a Pinoy thinks is that I am paid 300 pesos a day and I need to feed my family and I can work this wall for 3 days to get 900 pesos to feed my family.
 
#39 ·
Miss August makes good valid points that we as westerners are typically looking at things from the western standards that we grew up with. However; I have to believe in my heart that there must be good honest Filipino's with good work ethics and quality standards, (and I am not passing judgment here)...I am only raising the point and asking for feedback on this thread topic because I will be there soon, living and breathing in the Philippines and I am sure I will be faced with this issue. (And I most certainly want to handle it properly with respect and dignity to both myself and the workers I might hire).

The point I wanted to bring to the surface...if the worker is dragging the job out for three days just to make a few more peso's to feed their family, is that not possessing poor work ethics? (Which in itself is a form of dishonesty). Is there no such thing in the Philippines as good work ethics? I have trouble believing that. No matter how poor someone might be, no matter how much someone needs the money even for a good reason such as feeding a family...there still must be some hard working and honest people in the Philippines.

Something like 80% of the Philippine population claims to be God fearing Catholics and Catholics hold honesty and integrity very highly in the Church. How can anyone be God fearing and a devout Christian and follow the teachings of the Bible if they are in fact conducting their lives in this dishonest way?

I have a hard time believing that most poor people would drag out a project completion just for the sake of making a little more money. Perhaps this is true...I don't know...I am just here to learn more about this situation as I plan on building/having my home built there.

What people need to realize, (rich or poor), is that good strong work ethics brings about more future work. If I knew someone were stretching a job like this, I would not want to hire them ever again.

Perhaps the solution here for westerners is to not pay the workers by the day...but rather by the job...no matter how long it takes to do it...one day or three days or three weeks...this is what the pay is for this project from start to completion.

Has anyone tried this approach before?
 
#34 · (Edited)
Hello Miss August,

Thanks for your insight and comments. You are very correct in your assumptions.

I grew up around the world as a military brat... and later joined US Air Force myself.

I understand the mentality of "milking the job" all over...all over the USA too. Pinoy's don;t have the monopoly on that..haha!

I also lived and owned a business in Mexico for several years, in my late 20's I didn't have the patience and wisdom which I have now...at least a little more. I fell prey to the mentality of "That's not how it would be done back home!"...I got angry and went "home"
That said... i have mellowed and have gone to the other end of spectrum..."gone-local" as some would say. Just because I was accidentally born American...doesn't make me any better than Non-Americans... my thought process is not the BEST way...or the only way... Just because I have a USA education doesn't make me superior to anyone else. It simply means...thats the way I KNOW how to do something. Perhaps someone else's way is better.

I tend to watch now... offer advice if asked or ask my bro-in-law or asawa if the way they do something is normal around here. I will ask questions and perhaps comment that I would do it differently, quite often the contractor will make a note of it, perhaps ask me to show him, not always, but sometimes.

I think the secret is, maturing enough to let go... mature to the point where patience is more important than being right, when accepting others point of view and style that may contrary to your own...is better than fighting for YOUR way. There are many paths and different vehicles to the top of a mountain.

My Asawa and I have gone through several contractors...given trial work to some on small jobs. We give specific expectations, if they dont meet them, no foul...here is your day rate...salamat.

We now have a small team of contractors at our beck-and-call. We negotiate a total job price for the labor, rather than a day rate. of course this could ead to hurried and poor workmanship... but again, if they don't satisfy our expectations, they are replaced.

My wife does the majority of the negotiations with me as back up as I can usually estimate job needs...she negotiates the rate for those needs. She scares the vendors in Divisoria! haha... she's tough.

Anyone who tries to expect all work to be done to the standards of "back home" needs to either pay through the wahzoo for it, do the job themselves or pack their bags and leave RP frustrated.
 
#37 · (Edited)
This is precisely why we usually have our wives or girlfriends negotiate pricing on everything from contracts, salaries, to costs of buying items at a local flea market.
A peso or two really makes no difference but in the end things can end up costing much more than they should. Just part of living here in paradise.

Now, I need to direct this thread back to the original title of the treatment of workers/helpers :focus:
 
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#38 ·
I prefer having "smart" workers.

I will try my best to teach better methods.....with examples to my workers...........if they learn and attempt the new methods, they are keepers. If they refuse or cannot learn new methods, depending on their attitudes, they are let go.

I don't buy the above concept that all Filipinos are stupid, stubborn, and lazy....always looking to scam.
I have encountered some like that....and they don't work for me anymore. But I have found lots of smart, energetic, willing to learn new methods with new tools............and those guys I keep, treat them well, with much respect.
 
#41 ·
Cebu Citizen,
So many "religious" or "professed Christians" do not really follow the way of God/Jesus. In church, they are very devout, once outside, they will be just as deceitful and the unbeliever many times. I think it is probably referred to as "free will or human nature." So don't bother using THAT as a reason to trust someone.
I have been living in 3rd world countries for over 4 years now, and find that many people will do whatever they can to make some extra money. There is a reputable contractor working in the building I am living in, but he managed to get over 1 million pesos from about 4 people here, then disappeared with only completing 1/4 or less of the work. The people employing him, made a HUGE mistake. They kept paying him when he asked for money, but had clearly not completed the work much of the contracted work. Lesson to learn: Have a contract that specifically states WHEN and HOW MUCH money will be paid at the various COMPLETION STAGES. This is fair to all. It is the employer's responsibility to keep on top of the progress of the job. If this cannot be done, then it is best to buy a completed house/apt so no risk is involved. I know of 2 Brazilians fighting with broken beer bottles over 50 cents for "watching over" a car parked along the street! Life, and honesty are not the highest priority in 3rd world countries. SURVIVAL IS! Keep in mind, if you give people a chance to take advantage of you, often they will. You doing YOUR job will help them stay/be a better person. Taking someone to court can take up to 1 year. So best be preemptive, and have everything written carefully. I have been dealing with a fellow Ex-Vet and USA citizen who has broken our rental contract. He is quick to sue, and threaten anyone who crosses him. He is a "classic example of 'the Ugly American.' " So local people are NOT the only ones you need to be wary of in foreign countries. People often think laws do not apply to themselves when living in a foreign country. I have only been in the Philippines for 10 months, but have dealt with pickpockets, shady lawyers, questionable doctors, dentists who "find 12 cavities", when other dentists see none, even with x-rays. Real Estate agents who claim to be able to get financing, but when I checked at local banks, found out it was not possible in my situation. People will do and say many things to part a careless (fool?) from their money. BUT...I also have met several really good people in the Philippines. Brazil, Colombia, Ecuador, Dominican Republic, Thailand, Malaysia or the Philippines, it is all a crap shoot. You take your best shot, and hope you find the life you are looking for. Good luck!
 
#43 ·
Having a written contract isn't a bad idea, and I think that many con artists will run away when you ask them to sign such an agreement. However, as you said, it can take over a year to go to court, and the legal system may not be of much use when it comes to enforcing an agreement between you, and a local. I know that it may sound like a bit of an oversimplification, but I think that one of the best ways to prevent these types of problems is to lean how to recognize a shark before it bites you. Not always easy. (Con artists never want you to know where they live. They never want to talk about how long they've been working in a particular industry, and they want to talk about giving you a bank reference.)
 
#46 ·
Yes there are very strict and extensive laws regarding the pay and conditions for helpers, minimum wage, health care, sss, working hours etc. All religiously enforced in the normal Philippine way. Unless you are a kano of course then a lot more scrutiny is applied.
The further you get from major city centers the less attention is paid to such regulations. The underlying thought of employees in the provinces is that all that matters is a job of sorts, and employers tend the think they can please themselves how they treat their staff (which is usually the case). Workers do not like SSS as they are supposed to contribute also, working hours are usually flexible but best agreed from day one. The limited health care provided by Philhealth is generally quite affordable but insufficient as a stand alone contingency, most reasonable employers will "help out" with medical costs within reason. If you are inclined to help in this way keep a firm grip on the process and you be the one who chooses the doctor/clinic/hospital etc. and deals with the administration (you may need to intervene with the medical staff also). If you look on everybody as a potential rip-off merchant then you will simply be protecting your own interests. Interesting 'tradition' here is somebody being admitted to hospital and then not being able to pay any or a part of their bill is frequently 'held' in the hospital i.e. not discharged until suitable arrangements are established (with the clock still running of course). There are some very questionable practices in this neck of the woods.
 
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