Sending money to province (Part II)

[MaidenScotland]

Originally Posted by Gene and Viol

Yep, sad but true. It's amazing how dishonest these people can be and expect to get away with it.
Spain ruled the Philippines for over 300 years and the Spaniards found theft and corruption already naturally imbedded in the culture when they arrived. They have had literally centuries of experience in this kind of thing. Pays to be extra, extra careful!!!

I did report it to the police as I didn't know it was her that was using the card but she came and confessed once I had told her that ATMs have cameras and they would see who had been using it, she was under the impression that once she had confessed it was all ok and I was to forget about it.

Another friend who had a maid for about 15 years came back home to find her with a screw driver breaking into his safe and there is no way this was the first time she had done it.. again she expected to keep her job etc.


I went to my boss to see if I could get a pay rise for the third world domestic staff, I explained that they had all been working for the same money for years, boss looked me straight in the eye and told me.. No I am not giving a pay rise as they steal enough of me to make their money up.

[starlightexpress]

Thanks for the advice. She's in bulacan (metro manila). Her family are in negros occidental province some hours by plane away. I currently am actually in New York. I was considering relocating but given this I am .. reconsidering.

Trust is a special commodity in a relationship of any kind. I wasn't specifically looking for a pinay to date - it just happened that we met and she happened to be a pinay. However the undoubted drawbacks specifically around family have me seriously concerned. It wouldn't be so bad if her family were largely self-supporting, or business minded, but it appears that their mindset revolves around dependency, handouts and for many of her siblings, outright unwillingness to work or over-exert themselves. I'm sure this isn't a cultural problem - I think this is a specific issue for this specific family. Bears thinking about.

[MaidenScotland]

Originally Posted by starlightexpress

Thanks for the advice. She's in bulacan (metro manila). Her family are in negros occidental province some hours by plane away. I currently am actually in New York. I was considering relocating but given this I am .. reconsidering.

Trust is a special commodity in a relationship of any kind. I wasn't specifically looking for a pinay to date - it just happened that we met and she happened to be a pinay. However the undoubted drawbacks specifically around family have me seriously concerned. It wouldn't be so bad if her family were largely self-supporting, or business minded, but it appears that their mindset revolves around dependency, handouts and for many of her siblings, outright unwillingness to work or over-exert themselves. I'm sure this isn't a cultural problem - I think this is a specific issue for this specific family. Bears thinking about.

Sorry but do you know 100% her family is not self supporting?

[Gene and Viol]

Originally Posted by MaidenScotland

I did report it to the police as I didn't know it was her that was using the card but she came and confessed once I had told her that ATMs have cameras and they would see who had been using it, she was under the impression that once she had confessed it was all ok and I was to forget about it.

Another friend who had a maid for about 15 years came back home to find her with a screw driver breaking into his safe and there is no way this was the first time she had done it.. again she expected to keep her job etc.


I went to my boss to see if I could get a pay rise for the third world domestic staff, I explained that they had all been working for the same money for years, boss looked me straight in the eye and told me.. No I am not giving a pay rise as they steal enough of me to make their money up.

Okay you two, I'm dropping outa the conversation for now. It's after 11pm here and my wife is giving me the evil eye for staying up so late-hahaha. Good night all...



Gene

[MaidenScotland]

Why not tell her.... I am not a walking ATM for your family and never will be, what I earn I work hard for.. I will not now or ever send them money and see what the reaction is,

[starlightexpress]

Well I have to go on hearsay regarding the 'self supporting' issue. She tells me she sent money for many years. She continues to want to. Which I can understand. However I have a problem when it appears that basic things such as dental care for her young kiddies are placed below this in her priority list. This seems to tell me that should we be together, saving for college, car payments, chistmas or vacations or indeed most things would be subservient to her need to send money to the province. She seems to fail to question their need a lot of the time and take the stories at face value. One example would be that recently they contacted her with 'so and so has dengue fever - we need 2000 p for the treatment. So I said 'ask them did they see the doctor? ' answer 'yes'. My response 'Ask them Which doctor and his details so you can call him and check'. their answer: 'oh he's away'. My response 'Ask them which doctor so you can call him and check'. Their answer : 'oh he doesn't have dengue fever'.
The point is, that this happens over and over making it impossible to tell when the stories coming out of their are lies or are true. So I tend to dsbelieve everything now. However she tends to believe it, despite the evidence and she tends to feel guilty when she says 'no'.

I'm shocked about the maid story. This also goes to the idea of trust. hmm.

[starlightexpress]

I have already taken that position. I'm not directly sending money to them. I have sent her some money on occasion but I do try and keep it to a minimum. I'm not a walking ATM and I've been very clear that I do work hard for my money.
My concern centers more around the fact that what happens if, we are both together for example in the USA for a while and she's not working. The demands for money may mean that pressure then mounts for a regular allowance as well as other 'emergency' amounts to be sent without proper vetting. If we have other commitments to meet - and lets face it - everyone has commitments to meet - savings to make for retirement - savings for holidays - car loan payments or whatever - then it will be hard to explain that we don't actually have 'spare'. It seems that in her world - you have to find 'spare' for the province - even when really you don't actually have spare!

[starlightexpress]

and I can't help it but I keep preaching the same story that I feel that people should work and that they only deserve a hand if they actually are working and trying.
Its one thing to send help to someone who is working all day for a small amount of money and can't make ends meet. Its another thing to send allowance to a perfectly able set of 25-38 year old siblings who sleep in, sit around chatting and drinking and not working all day.
It drove me wild to hear that one of them worked for one month before deciding she didn't like it and resigned. In that job she got fed, a bed, wages and somewhere to live. if she had been wise she could have saved money if she did it for a few years. But choosing to bail out after one month is just... incomprehensible to me - and sending money NOW is almost like rewarding her for resignation.. Its clear to me what I think SHOULD be done - but if she disagrees and feels its her duty to send money.. when I feel that she should be saving money - then that seems wrong to me.

Now. I'm sure people would say - 'who are you to say you feel she should be saving money? its her money. Let her use it how she wants.' However. My resentment stems from the fact that - if she saves nothing - then she needs occasional money from me. I also then wind up funding everything else such as trips, food and other expenses that she hasn't managed to budget for because she sent the 'spare' to the province. So in that sense it does wind up being my money eventually you see? I don't see it as being controlling - I see it as trying to preach a little financial sense and getting nowhere. .

[MaidenScotland]

I know Filipinos who work for the whole family and send about $400 dollars home a month.. that is for the whole family plus provide babysitting money for whoever is looking after her kids.. I know girls who earn $200 and send that home.

The maid I told you about would ask for airconditioning in her room, which I gave, she also ate the same as me, if I ate steak she ate steak and so on, the Filipino guy who works for me would say to her, you don't have those things in the Philippines and you wouldn't have them when you go back but yet you expect madam to keep you like a princesses.

I may sound hard hearted but quite simply why should they live as you do in America????

[starlightexpress]

Originally Posted by MaidenScotland

I know Filipinos who work for the whole family
.....
I may sound hard hearted but quite simply why should they live as you do in America????

Yeah I agree. I am not advocating that people there should be sustained by myself, or indeed any outside labour, to mirror a way of life in another nation. Whilst philosophically all people are equal, and the fact that I am in my current position is both an accident of birth location and of hard work on my part, I am not willing to become a slave to those who either are not fortunate enough, or are not hard working enough, to make something of themselves.

This may also seem hard, but I have tried to explain to my pinay partner that it is natural and inevitable that the gap between her and her families circumstances would widen as a result of being involved with a foreigner. I realise that the prevailing wisdom is that 'you marry the entire family' but I do not agree that this constitutes an obligation to support them all, particularly when there are many able bodies adults who simply do not seem to possess the will to work.

The 'expectation' culture that I have encountered may not be common, although I have read posts by others that suffered a similar atttitude - but writing as the person who is putting in 60 hour working weeks, I can envision problems with my own resentment if this is not dealt with properly. This is why I have been trying to encourage my fiance to be harder on her family, to refuse or at least question their numerous requests, and to impress on her the importance of saving for her future rather than the more usual 'give the spare to the province' which has been her policy for many years.

I have pointed out that I feel that her practice of effectively supporting everyone has effectively taught them to become lazy and dependent, but with only limited success. The difference in our cultures I feel means that it is expected that she will support them if she is able, and of course being involved with a foreigner means that by definition in the eyes of her family she is indeed 'able'. Therefore she runs the risk of being deemed selfish, inadequate and uncaring by her family - which I think affects her judgement and makes her miserable.

I would imagine that this scenario is repeated a number of times in fil-west partnerships. The only solution to it that I can visualise is that either the filipina becomes harder and more able to resist the demands of her family, or that the westerner becomes willing to tolerate the financial price that such an involvement seems to mandate. I would not argue that it is a noble concept to help those less fortunate, or that its a good idea that help people to help themselves, such as with assistance to start businesses, or with the occasional emergency payment, but it seems to me that this will only work where the family themselves have employment of some nature and a willingness to make it work and do not possess this 'entitlement' mentality, otherwise even an extremely rich person will find their resources depleted at an alarming rate because the demands seem to never stop.

My fiance's parents indeed have very few good words to say about me. I am perceived as being selfish because I refuse to subsidize them, and they constantly remind her that 'when your cousin married a british guy he bought them a house and a car and had party for the whole village...' etc etc. I feel that her mother in particular, who boasts to neighbors that her daughter has a foreign bf, will only be satisfied when a sizeable allowance is deposited with them every month for her to distribute amongst her kinsfolk. I find that a little bit repugnant, because it smacks of 'paying them off' - sacrificing a few hundred dollars a month for keeping the peace. My concern about this course of action is that usually 'its never enough' and that one demand for money always follows another with a variety of bogus explanations.

With predictable regularity, various stories roll in from the provice. They usual are that there is not enough rice, someone is sick, there is a problem with the house, the tree, the well... that one of the siblings children needs shoes, education stuff, whatever. I find it irritating that the fathers of these children seem willing to not contribute financially to the mothers, and instead, by some mental judo, my fiance feels as if she 'ought' to contribute. This is kind and sweet and laudible, but there have to be limits. Setting and keeping to those limits seems to cause friction.

My own view is that the only way the situation is tenable would be to accept that being with her, she will always send a proportion of her own income to her family without a great deal of questions. If she is without income, then the situation becomes more complex and will lead to diagreement. If I have expectations that she will save for the future from her own income, or that she will share in the financial burden of a relationship, I think I shall be disapointed. So in that sense it becomes clear that the obligations of family, at least to my filipina, successfully trump all others including those to her children and to her future. That is certainly a problem.